Worst call in NFL history Face Mask

[firehawk350]

he wasn't running forward, he was going east-west looking for a hole to break upfield, that caused the twist

So your saying that Taylor turned his head that way???

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, it wasn't incidental, his head was twisted. If his hand just ran across the facemask without closing his grip (as to cause the twisting), then its incidental. But if Taylor's head is twisted then he had to close his grip on the facemask making it a conscious effort to GRAB it and thus making it not incidental

the twist was incidental is what I'm saying, it was caused by Sean running east-west

 

[firehawk350]

the twist was incidental is what I'm saying, it was caused by Sean running east-west

So was Kosier actually grabbing the facemask, was that Sean Taylor's doing too???

 

[peplaw06]

No, it wasn't incidental, his head was twisted. If his hand just ran across the facemask without closing his grip (as to cause the twisting), then its incidental. But if Taylor's head is twisted then he had to close his grip on the facemask making it a conscious effort to GRAB it and thus making it not incidental

Wrong...

I believe a definition has been posted in this thread saying incidental = "grasping."

IMO one finger in a facemask is not a closed grip as you state.

The fact his head turns is IMO less of a factor. The head almost always turns when there's a facemask, that's how refs throw flags when they don't actually see the grasps.

That still frame pic doesn't do the facemask near as much justice as the full speed clip. Taylor ran out of the facemask in a split second, and didn't even slow down. Sorry, if there's a closed grip on the facemask when Taylor is running full speed away from Kosier, he falls down, or at least slows down.

 

[illone]

Bottom line is we played bad and lost. If that face mask was on a Cowboy player for fifteen Gibbs would still be on the field demanding an explination from the ref.

HAHA, cry about it. You lost, we won. I'll have a nice avatar for you by tomorrow.

:

 

[SacredStar]

Typical of cowboy fans to blame the refs for losing.

Says the fan of a team who's coach consistantly sends game tapes to the NFL league offices after each loss crying about the officiating.

And a fan of team that has an official Commander message board where whining about the officiating is the norm and is to be expected after each and every loss.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So was Kosier actually grabbing the facemask, was that Sean Taylor's doing too???

:jerk:

no, we already agree that Kosier grabbed the face-guard...incidentally

 

[firehawk350]

Wrong...

I believe a definition has been posted in this thread saying incidental = "grasping."

IMO one finger in a facemask is not a closed grip as you state.

The fact his head turns is IMO less of a factor. The head almost always turns when there's a facemask, that's how refs throw flags when they don't actually see the grasps.

That still frame pic doesn't do the facemask near as much justice as the full speed clip. Taylor ran out of the facemask in a split second, and didn't even slow down. Sorry, if there's a closed grip on the facemask when Taylor is running full speed away from Kosier, he falls down, or at least slows down.

Do you have a clip of it in full-speed? Or are you going off the memory that the rest of us are??? Either way, that picture shows that his fingers are curled around the bars thus showing (with the evidence at hand) it was grasped

 

[Bob Sacamano]

it was grasped

that's incidental

thank you

 

[peplaw06]

Do you have a clip of it in full-speed? Or are you going off the memory that the rest of us are??? Either way, that picture shows that his fingers are curled around the bars thus showing (with the evidence at hand) it was grasped

I dont have a clip that I can post. I've seen the replay over and over. And grasping = incidental... as per Random C's (Commander fan)

There is nothing in the rule-book about tackling the player or bringing him down for a 15yard facemask.

5 yard penalty: Grasping facemask of the ball carrier or quarterback.
15 yard penalty: Twisting, turning, or pulling an opponent by the facemask.

 

[firehawk350]

:jerk:

no, we already agree that Kosier grabbed the face-guard...incidentally

Hahaha, okay dude. He grabbed the facemask, twisted his head, the fact that he twisted his head (as per the rule) denotes a 15 yard penalty. His intentions are completely irrevelant.

 

[firehawk350]

I dont have a clip that I can post. I've seen the replay over and over. And grasping = incidental... as per Random C's (Commander fan)

Okay, i dont know how to explain it any easier to you guys. We all argee that he had his facemask, right??? Now the question is did he twist his head? Does anyone debate that Taylor's head was twisted?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Hahaha, okay dude. He grabbed the facemask, twisted his head, the fact that he twisted his head (as per the rule) denotes a 15 yard penalty. His intentions are completely irrevelant.

do you even know what incidental means? intentions do matter since a quick pull from getting your hand caught in it, and a hard tug differentiates on what is incidental and what is flagrant

 

[peplaw06]

Okay, i dont know how to explain it any easier to you guys. We all argee that he had his facemask, right??? Now the question is did he twist his head? Does anyone debate that Taylor's head was twisted?

When the facemask is grabbed, it almost always results in someone's head twisting. That can't be the distinction.

 

[firehawk350]

When the facemask is grabbed, it almost always results in someone's head twisting. That can't be the distinction.

That's the rule dude. Debate it whether its a sucky rule, but that's the rule as it stands and that's how it was called, which makes it a correct call.

 

[jrockster77]

Typical of cowboy fans to blame the refs for losing.
Now lets take a look..

Here is the rule from NFL.Com:

5 Yard Penalty:

19. Grasping facemask of the ball carrier or quarterback.

15 Yard Penalty:

8. Twisting, turning, or pulling an opponent by the facemask.

Indisputable evidence - lock the thread.

 

[firehawk350]

do you even know what incidental means? intentions do matter since a quick pull from getting your hand caught in it, and a hard tug differentiates on what is incidental and what is flagrant

Except that the rule doesn't say, if he really didn't mean it, it's 5 yards, if he did, its 15... The rule states that if he grasps the facemask, its 5 yards, if he twists the neck by the facemask, its 15. He did in fact twist his neck by the facemask, i dont care what his intentions were.

 

[peplaw06]

That's the rule dude. Debate it whether its a sucky rule, but that's the rule as it stands and that's how it was called, which makes it a correct call.

What's the rule??

Is it "twisting the helmet" or "twisting... the opponent by the facemask?"

Cause Taylor wasn't twisted, he didn't slow down.

 

[gbrittain]

To me the only thing that matters is that Washington beat us. The only things that gives me comfort is there is little doubt in my mind that we are a better team than Washington. Considering how good I think the Cowboys actually are right now is not a good thing for the Skins.

 

[SacredStar]

Indisputable evidence - lock the thread.

All I see in that pick is Kosier grabbing Taylor's shoulder and Taylor looking back to see who got him. That's hardly indisputible.