WVU to Join Big 12 Pending Missouri Move

[The30YardSlant]

Sixth largest huh? I'm betting there are a lot of schools out there that would question that. Say, Alabama, Texas, LSU, Florida, UCLA, USC, Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and even Notre Dame and I've been arguing against them.

We also have one of the five largest living alumni bases and have huge followings in three of the ten largest TV markets in America. Say what you want about results in football, but we have a massive following.

 

[YosemiteSam]

We also have one of the five largest living alumni bases and have huge followings in three of the ten largest TV markets in America. Say what you want about results in football, but we have a massive following.

Nate Silver used how many times a team was Googled to determine the number of fans a team has? You do see the inherent flaw in that logic right? Google Searches count != individual fans. Some fans are just far more obsessed with their team and can't get enough information about them.

For instances. There are Cowboys fans on this board that probably NEVER search for "Dallas Cowboys". (I might maybe three times a year) On the other hand, there might be many that search Dallas Cowboys several times a day. (ie, CowboyJoe)

Texas appears 5th on the list, yet clearly earns more money (by a long shot) than any of them. Are the less fans just spending x10 more each?

Again. Google Searches != Individual Fans.

btw, living alumni doesn't mean they follow college football. My uncle graduated from Texas A&M, but the only time I see him watching college football is during the Bowl games. ...which usually doesn't include Texas A&M.

 

[DFWJC]

The point is that everyone else in this thread and the media are suggesting football as well.

Slant.
There's an article in the DMN today discussing ND to the Big 12...excluding football. The same situation they currently have with the BE.

 

[DFWJC]

Nate Silver used how many times a team was Googled to determine the number of fans a team has? You do see the inherent flaw in that logic right? Google Searches count != individual fans. Some fans are just far more obsessed with their team and can't get enough information about them.

For instances. There are Cowboys fans on this board that probably NEVER search for "Dallas Cowboys". (I might maybe three times a year) On the other hand, there might be many that search Dallas Cowboys several times a day. (ie, CowboyJoe)

Texas appears 5th on the list, yet clearly earns more money (by a long shot) than any of them. Are the less fans just spending x10 more each?

Again. Google Searches != Individual Fans.

btw, living alumni doesn't mean they follow college football. My uncle graduated from Texas A&M, but the only time I see him watching college football is during the Bowl games. ...which usually doesn't include Texas A&M.

Yeah. No way do Google serches equal # of fans.
And yes, UT rakes in the most money, but Ohio State really is not far behind.

 

[MC KAos]

The Mountaineers were good under Rich Rodriguez but have cranked out 9-4 seasons since then while playing in a very weak Big East. While WVU is losing to UCONN and Syracuse Missouri is losing to Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas. The comparison does not fit, WVU is not a better football program than Missouri. They were hot for a little while under Rodriguez, but he moved on and the program is back where it normally is. The fact that the SEC would take Missouri over WVU solidifies my argument.

Comparing TCU is TAMU is laughable as well. They have put some very good football teams on the field in the last three years but they fail at being consistant. They have already lost to Baylor and SMU this season, two teams TAMU was able to beat handily. TCU wins on recent history, but TAMU wins over the long run (25 game win streak against TCU) and appears to be reclaiming their spot as the second best football program in Texas.



The Big 12 needs to hit the go button and invite WVU and Louisville without worrying about Missouri. Commit to a conference of 11/12 teams in 2012 (or 2013/14 if the Big East has their way). The SEC already said they are sticking with 13 teams for 2012 so Missouri might have put themselves in a position where no one wants them next year.

FINALLY a sensible argument from an aggie fan!

yes, West Virginia hasnt been the same since Rich Rod left, but i think they have a good starting point, they will have a LOT more money in the big 12, and a lot more exposure to recruits than they did in the big east. I think the fall of the big east as a whole didnt help them because recruits felt like it was a second tier conference. I think they will become just as good as Okie State has been within 5 years or joining the big 12.

as for TCU and A&M, we cant just go by this year when making the case as to whom has the better football program. I think there is no question that over the last 10 years, TCU has had the better program. over the last full year, TCU has a big time win in a big time bowl over a big time school. When was the last time TAMU had that? i think its a coin flip as to who will have the better program going forward, but i gotta believe that with all the success TCU has had as a member of the MWC, all the added money and exposure they will get will also make them better in the long run and will be just as good as UT and OU if Patterson stays there

 

[MC KAos]

BTW there are new rumors to add here.....

apparently, there is a hold up with WVU. Last i heard, Kentucky Senator Mitch Mcconnell is good friends with the president of OU, whom apparently used to be a senator also? anyway, he called to lobby for Louisville to be the school included if Mizzou leaves instead of WVU. Louisville is also getting support from Texas Tech.

So its my guess that they are just holding on to discuss this, but its probably going to end up being West Virginia since the other schools want them. Although if Mizzou does end up leaving, i bet they invite both anyway

 

[Cythim]

FINALLY a sensible argument from an aggie fan!

yes, West Virginia hasnt been the same since Rich Rod left, but i think they have a good starting point, they will have a LOT more money in the big 12, and a lot more exposure to recruits than they did in the big east. I think the fall of the big east as a whole didnt help them because recruits felt like it was a second tier conference. I think they will become just as good as Okie State has been within 5 years or joining the big 12.

as for TCU and A&M, we cant just go by this year when making the case as to whom has the better football program. I think there is no question that over the last 10 years, TCU has had the better program. over the last full year, TCU has a big time win in a big time bowl over a big time school. When was the last time TAMU had that? i think its a coin flip as to who will have the better program going forward, but i gotta believe that with all the success TCU has had as a member of the MWC, all the added money and exposure they will get will also make them better in the long run and will be just as good as UT and OU if Patterson stays there

Success for any university is cyclical. Missouri was a bad team when the Big 12 first started but have gotten much better over the last few years. Oklahoma was also in a bad place at the start of the Big 12 but turned it around quickly with Stoops. TCU is currently on an up cycle, but their history indicates that it will not be sustainable. TCU was in the SWC (won 9 championships) and could not maintain success against UT (27 championships), TAMU (17), and Arkansas (13).

I think everyone will be surprised to see how poorly TCU will do in their first season of Big 12 play (just as I expect TAMU to do poorly in the SEC at the start). Where they go is anyone's guess, but history is not kind to the Horned Frogs.

As for WVU and Missouri, I think they are similar with the difference being location. Neither has been great over a sustained period and neither has a strong championship background. Missouri will recruit the midwest better due to location, I do not think many from the midwest will want to move to WV. The Mountaineers will probably fill the role Missouri is vacating, a dangerous opponent that is forgotten about because they do not make a lot of noise on the national stage. They will fight with Tech and OSU to be the 3rd best team in the conference.

 

[MC KAos]

Success for any university is cyclical. Missouri was a bad team when the Big 12 first started but have gotten much better over the last few years. Oklahoma was also in a bad place at the start of the Big 12 but turned it around quickly with Stoops. TCU is currently on an up cycle, but their history indicates that it will not be sustainable. TCU was in the SWC (won 9 championships) and could not maintain success against UT (27 championships), TAMU (17), and Arkansas (13).

I think everyone will be surprised to see how poorly TCU will do in their first season of Big 12 play (just as I expect TAMU to do poorly in the SEC at the start). Where they go is anyone's guess, but history is not kind to the Horned Frogs.

As for WVU and Missouri, I think they are similar with the difference being location. Neither has been great over a sustained period and neither has a strong championship background. Missouri will recruit the midwest better due to location, I do not think many from the midwest will want to move to WV. The Mountaineers will probably fill the role Missouri is vacating, a dangerous opponent that is forgotten about because they do not make a lot of noise on the national stage. They will fight with Tech and OSU to be the 3rd best team in the conference.

I agree that it goes in cycles, but that has a lot to do with coaching. When you have great coaches like Mack brown and bob stoops, those downturns aren't very bad, 2 years tops. And while West Virginia doesn't have that, I believe Gary Paterson is a GREAT coach and as long as he is there I don't think they will have more than 2 bad years in a row.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I agree that it goes in cycles, but that has a lot to do with coaching. When you have great coaches like Mack brown and bob stoops, those downturns aren't very bad, 2 years tops. And while West Virginia doesn't have that, I believe Gary Paterson is a GREAT coach and as long as he is there I don't think they will have more than 2 bad years in a row.

I think Gary Patterson is a good coach, just like I think Chris Peterson is a good coach. Great should be reserved for guys who win like that in real conferences IMO.

Some people are going to be absolutely shocked when TCU becomes a perennial 6-6 team with no prospects of upward mobility in the Big XII. Their program just isnt built for major conference competition week in and week out, their decades of failure in the SWC is evidence of this. Home games against OU and Texas will have as many opposing fans in attendence as TCU fans. They will quickly become Baylor, a small private school that can't bring good crowds and looks at bowl eligibility as the barometer of success. It's exactly why Baylor had no business getting into the Big XII, and exactly why TCU should have remained in the MWC. 10+ win seasons and BCS berths in a bad conference is better than fighting to stay out of last with ISU and Baylor in the Big XII.

 

[Rogah]

No, they renewed it in 2009. It ends in 2015 and (especially with Comcast now running the show at NBC), a renewal ain't happening and whoever does (if), it damn sure won't be fore $15M a year like this one.

I stand corrected. Of course, the fact that it was renewed in 2009 actually goes to support my claim even more, since that followed a poor 6-6 season. Fact is there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest NBC isn't happy with the arrangement. Just imagine how they'd feel if Notre Dame actually stopped sucking.

Not many people follow Notre Dame anymore. As I said, they've been dying (ratings wise) since 2003. It's gotten worse every year. Now they can't even muster a 1.0 rating!

Seriously, dude, join us in the real world. A late season game against a nobody opponent which got a low rating hardly means they "can't muster a 1.0 rating." Their game against Michigan got a 4.8 on ESPN. Games against big name opponents are going to do well. Games against Army, SDSU and USF not so much.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I stand corrected. Of course, the fact that it was renewed in 2009 actually goes to support my claim even more, since that followed a poor 6-6 season. Fact is there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest NBC isn't happy with the arrangement. Just imagine how they'd feel if Notre Dame actually stopped sucking.

Seriously, dude, join us in the real world. A late season game against a nobody opponent which got a low rating hardly means they "can't muster a 1.0 rating." Their game against Michigan got a 4.8 on ESPN. Games against big name opponents are going to do well. Games against Army, SDSU and USF not so much.

There isn't when Businessweek is even talking about it? Their rating have been in decline for almost a decade. You think NBC is going to keep pouring large sums of cash down ND throat when they aren't making revenue off of them? Nobody is watching them and yes it's because of their decline. I'm sorry, I don't see a national championship or anything close to that coming to ND before 2015.

 

[Cythim]

I agree that it goes in cycles, but that has a lot to do with coaching. When you have great coaches like Mack brown and bob stoops, those downturns aren't very bad, 2 years tops. And while West Virginia doesn't have that, I believe Gary Paterson is a GREAT coach and as long as he is there I don't think they will have more than 2 bad years in a row.

Steve Spurrier was a great coach for Florida, winning 6 SEC titles, a national championship and playing in a second championship game. His talent is somewhat wasted in South Carolina where the football program just cannot match Florida due to limiting factors. TCU has limiting factors that will also keep them from matching OU and UT no matter who their coach is. I am not as down on them as Slant is, I think they will be better than Iowa St, Baylor, and Kansas. I would put them as a perennial 7-8 win team with some good years at 10 and some bad years at 5.

 

[Rogah]

There isn't when Businessweek is even talking about it?

Does Businessweek have some sort of authority over NBC programming?

Their rating have been in decline for almost a decade. You think NBC is going to keep pouring large sums of cash down ND throat when they aren't making revenue off of them? Nobody is watching them and yes it's because of their decline. I'm sorry, I don't see a national championship or anything close to that coming to ND before 2015.

Gee, horrible ratings and a crappy team for 10 years now - and yet NBC renewed the contract as recently as two years ago!!

There's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest NBC is unhappy with the deal. It's just the desperate wishes of the haters.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Does Businessweek have some sort of authority over NBC programming?
Gee, horrible ratings and a crappy team for 10 years now - and yet NBC renewed the contract as recently as two years ago!!

There's simply no evidence whatsoever to suggest NBC is unhappy with the deal. It's just the desperate wishes of the haters.

Guess you don't know much about how Comcast operates. You know. Comcast. The new owners of NBC. NBC sold out because they were an absolute train wreck in their finances. Very unprofitable. Things like signing unprofitable contracts do that.

Unless ND becomes a winner and FAST, that contract will not get renewed. I have a reliable source that tells me this. (my wife)

 

[MC KAos]

Steve Spurrier was a great coach for Florida, winning 6 SEC titles, a national championship and playing in a second championship game. His talent is somewhat wasted in South Carolina where the football program just cannot match Florida due to limiting factors. TCU has limiting factors that will also keep them from matching OU and UT no matter who their coach is. I am not as down on them as Slant is, I think they will be better than Iowa St, Baylor, and Kansas. I would put them as a perennial 7-8 win team with some good years at 10 and some bad years at 5.

idk, south carolina is a lot better than they use to be, they actually get top recruits, and they have made it to the conference championship game. i think TCU will at least be as good as Kansas State has been under bill snyder. They might not be as succesful as UT or OU, but they will be in the conversation for third best program in the conference IMO. Them being in the biggest TV market in the conference im sure will help a lot too, there is a lot of talent in the DFW area.

 

[StylisticS]

I'm thinking both Louisville and West Virginia will be in the Big 12 when it's all said and done. If that happens, the Big East will lose Cuse, Pitt, WVU, and UL. They may lose UConn in the near future. Then we will see what ND will do. Would it surprise anyone that Texas and ND will become a yearly matchup intraconference or not?

 

[Rogah]

Guess you don't know much about how Comcast operates. You know. Comcast. The new owners of NBC. NBC sold out because they were an absolute train wreck in their finances. Very unprofitable. Things like signing unprofitable contracts do that.

Unless ND becomes a winner and FAST, that contract will not get renewed. I have a reliable source that tells me this. (my wife)

And if we can't believe some completely anonymous guy on the internet's wife, then whom can we believe?

 

[YosemiteSam]

And if we can't believe some completely anonymous guy on the internet's wife, then whom can we believe?

I didn't ask you to believe me. Just sit and watch.

I'm not anonymous. I'm the notorious nyc!

btw, NBC Sports is moving from Manhattan to Stamford, CT. About five minutes from my house.

 

[MC KAos]

id rather have west virginia, specially since im hearing they dont want to go to 12 yet so they might only add 1 school to replace mizzou. i wish they would just add both west virginia and louisville, then wait to see what mizzou ends up doing. if they stay, great, we are back to 12, if not, we can try to get ND for non FB and BYU or Boise for football only.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

id rather have west virginia, specially since im hearing they dont want to go to 12 yet so they might only add 1 school to replace mizzou. i wish they would just add both west virginia and louisville, then wait to see what mizzou ends up doing. if they stay, great, we are back to 12, if not, we can try to get ND for non FB and BYU or Boise for football only.

From what I have read, from some people who have given credible info in the past.

They are basically going to do what you just outlined. WVU and Louisville will be added. Probably announced Monday. However I am not sure about the time lines when they actually start conf play.

Missouri is going to the SEC. Recently a SEC sports site screwed up and posted an article of the tigers joining the SEC and then had to take it down. In other words they posted it too early and was told to take it down.

ND IS in talks with the big 12. They have a couple of options...join in everything but football or join in everything including football.

They have been given a good deal of time to decide on the issue...I am hearing possibly until sometime in January to decide.

If they decide to do everything...well that would be WVU, UL and ND to make 12 teams.

If they decide to do everything but football then the Big 12 can stay at 11 or pick another team to even it out to 12 teams.

Another interesting thing here is that if ND joins in everything but football there is a caveat that they must play a set number of games vs Big 12 teams over a period of time.

Another interesting idea to think about. The big argument that ND would not join football because they would lose money from NBC. I think the Big 12 "might" be the only conference that would say they could keep that money and work something out. Why do I say that...because they have Texas with the LHN and talk of Oklahoma wanting a network for their school as well. So if any conference would be ok with working something out it would seem it would be the Big 12.
With that said I don't know how it would work out with NBC vs ESPN/FOX.

Also...everything is fluid so what may be happening now in talks with Big 12 and ND might not pan out down the road. But just for those that say no way that ND is talking with the Big 12 or vice versa...the fact is that they are indeed talks going on between the big 12 (or should I say Texas) and ND.