Zeke is third overall in rushing

[wileedog]

Fine, I'll open it up. Name one rookie RB aside from Gurley and AP in the last ten years who started off better than Zeke, a la 250+ yards his first three games.

Tell you what, show me ONE RB that started off as a rookie getting 71 carries in the their first three games behind a consensus top 3 Oline and top 10 QB play and we can continue this conversation.

You are asking me to present you a unicorn and displaying that as proof the Zeke is doing something special. The fact is top RBs don't typically get drafted on to good teams, nor get forced into the lineup and force fed the football like he has. The game is not the same anymore, and his situation is extremely unique.

If his YPC were above league average I would buy it. But it isn't.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yes, you can't provide a single example in the last 10 years of a rookie RB doing markedly better in his first three games, but that's okay sunshine. You just stick to your guns, the BB guns that they are.

He provided you that single RB in Gurley, then you moved the goalpsts.

(first three starts of their careers)

Thomas Rawls - 321 yards, 5.7 YPC (undrafted rookie FA)
Arian Foster - 419 yards, 5.8 YPC (undrafted roookie FA)
David Johnson - 378 yards, 5.6 YPC (3rd round pick)
Matt Forte - 304 yards, 4.1 YPC (2nd round pick)

 

[wileedog]

Except that no rb in the league plays the stoutest defenses out there. Bottom line is he's near the top of the league in rushing, has 3 tds in 3 games and we have a winning record and he's improving week to week.

All of which could have been done with Morris for peanuts.

As soon as you deal with the fact that he was the pick, is playing for the cowboys and will be our feature back for the forseeable future we will all be better for it. There are a myriad of alternate scenarios that may have been better, but we are here.

Fine, tell the Zeke Squad to stop starting threads every five minutes declaring his undying greatness and maybe I will.

 

[jday]

Yes, cupcake. Everyone is out to get you. *pats head*

I never said tailback was more important than "fixing" the defense. But anyone who thinks a rookie cornerback was going to "fix" this defense needs their head examined, whereas Zeke can "fix" the running game for a long time.

And by extension, help the defense...and the pass game...and that can be everything the Cowboys need down the stretch should he continue to progress.

 

[Dale]

Two UDFAs, a 2nd and a 3rd round pick I might add.

But it's also a list that provides little comparative value to this discussion. Stats from Foster's second season are being used to bolster his stats.

What encourages me about Elliott is that he looked much better in Week 2 than in Week 1, and much better in Week 3 than in Week 2. You see the light bulb turning on. Throw in the tape from Week 1, and he's attacking the hole in an entirely different manner.

I did NOT love the idea of using a top-5 pick on a running back, but in my opinion there is no denying that in doing so we obtained an every-down back who is already exhibiting terrific and astute blitz-pickup skills and is capable of being used as a weapon in the passing game. I would have preferred a defensive player of similar ability, but am satisfied we at least have a running back that looks to be an anchor for this offense.

 

[jday]

Everyone? All the hundreds of posters here disagree with me?

And if you look at the people who liked your post, most are front office apologists and/or known Elliott wonks. But yeah........ Everyone.

No, no...your right. Not everyone disagrees with you.





























Just the smart ones.

 

[DFWJC]

Did anyone see Devonte Freeman run tonight?
Yet another in a seemingly infinite list of top running backs not taken in the 1st round, let alone the top of the 1st round.

Go get 'em Zeke.

 

[kevm3]

If we don't take Zeke, who did everyone want?

 

[DandyDon52]

2 Isaiah Crowell, RB CLE 45 274 -6.1 long 85
7 DeMarco Murray, RB TEN 41 245- 6.0 long 67
8 Christine Michael, RB SEA 45 232- 5.2 long 41
12.Eddie Lacy, RB GB 43 214- 5.0

These guys above all are over 200 yds, on 41 to 45 carries, with 5 to 6 yd avg per carry.
With 71 carries EE should have more yards and higher avg.

Ezekiel Elliott, RB DAL 71 274- 3.9 long 21

EE is # 22 going by avg per carry.
He is doing ok, but not what I expected.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

But it's also a list that provides little comparative value to this discussion. Stats from Foster's second season are being used to bolster his stats.

What encourages me about Elliott is that he looked much better in Week 2 than in Week 1, and much better in Week 3 than in Week 2. You see the light bulb turning on. Throw in the tape from Week 1, and he's attacking the hole in an entirely different manner.

I did NOT love the idea of using a top-5 pick on a running back, but in my opinion there is no denying that in doing so we obtained an every-down back who is already exhibiting terrific and astute blitz-pickup skills and is capable of being used as a weapon in the passing game. I would have preferred a defensive player of similar ability, but am satisfied we at least have a running back that looks to be an anchor for this offense.

I used stats from Foster's second season because that's when he tallied three straight NFL stats. It wasn't to bolster his numbers, but rather to give as close to apples-to-apples comparison to Zeke who has started all of the games he's participated in. With some of those other players, they actually had productive games in which they didn't start that I could have counted but didn't. Instead, I tallied their first three starts, good or bad.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Did anyone see Devonte Freeman run tonight?
Yet another in a seemingly infinite list of top running backs not taken in the 1st round, let alone the top of the 1st round.

Go get 'em Zeke.

That's the thing folks want to keep denying despite the overwhelming mountain of evidence. You can get productive (and stars) from anywhere in the draft or outside it (rookie FAs). Of course the knee jerk retort is "well, you could say that about every position!" But the reality is you can't, at least in the sheer number of talent that's found on a regular basis annually.

If it takes the sting off for some, replace the name Zeke with Joe Blow, because it's nothing personal against Elliott. I don't ever believe, with exception to clear, generational talent, that you should ever take a RB that high.

The Zeke proponents are right in that the "take somebody else" ship has sailed. Zeke's a Cowboy, so I'll hope he becomes everything some fans claim he'll be.

 

[Kaiser]

That's the thing folks want to keep denying despite the overwhelming mountain of evidence. You can get productive (and stars) from anywhere in the draft or outside it (rookie FAs). Of course the knee jerk retort is "well, you could say that about every position!" But the reality is you can't, at least in the sheer number of talent that's found on a regular basis annually.

But the fact that a few teams get a Thomas Rawls (who BTW has a total of 25 yards rushing this year) doesn't mean you can depend on it happening. The draft is about talent and the odds that you can get that talent to produce. And for your position that you can find stars anywhere in the draft, we have a UDFA QB in Romo that has been to Pro Bowls. But that doesn't mean you stop drafting QBs because you hit on a UDFA last time.

I agree with the general proposition that you don't draft RBs early. Joseph Randle is a nutcase but he provided a lot of value for a 5th round pick and he was taken in a talent rich draft where other, better players could have fallen to our pick in the 5th round. But there is no way Randle becomes a ten year starter for the team.

But the Cowboys had Elliot rated as the best player in this draft and he was available at the fourth pick. He was also a guy at a skill position and a position of need. Put those three factors together and he was the right pick (if the draft evaluation of him was correct).

 

[wileedog]

What encourages me about Elliott is that he looked much better in Week 2 than in Week 1, and much better in Week 3 than in Week 2. You see the light bulb turning on. Throw in the tape from Week 1, and he's attacking the hole in an entirely different manner.

Which could have a lot to do with the Giants defense >> Wash defense >> banged up Bears defense too.

I did NOT love the idea of using a top-5 pick on a running back, but in my opinion there is no denying that in doing so we obtained an every-down back who is already exhibiting terrific and astute blitz-pickup skills and is capable of being used as a weapon in the passing game. I would have preferred a defensive player of similar ability, but am satisfied we at least have a running back that looks to be an anchor for this offense.

Look, lets be clear, no one is saying he is a bust or he won't get better. He will in all likelihood be fantastic within a year behind this line.

Again, the argument is and will always be that will he be so much of a difference maker to make the high pick worthwhile. So far, no, he hasn't been. That's ALL anyone is saying to the Zeke is God crowd.

 

[DFWJC]

But the fact that a few teams get a Thomas Rawls (who BTW has a total of 25 yards rushing this year) doesn't mean you can depend on it happening. The draft is about talent and the odds that you can get that talent to produce. And for your position that you can find stars anywhere in the draft, we have a UDFA QB in Romo that has been to Pro Bowls. But that doesn't mean you stop drafting QBs because you hit on a UDFA last time.

I agree with the general proposition that you don't draft RBs early. Joseph Randle is a nutcase but he provided a lot of value for a 5th round pick and he was taken in a talent rich draft where other, better players could have fallen to our pick in the 5th round. But there is no way Randle becomes a ten year starter for the team.

But the Cowboys had Elliot rated as the best player in this draft and he was available at the fourth pick. He was also a guy at a skill position and a position of need. Put those three factors together and he was the right pick (if the draft evaluation of him was correct).

I think hes saying 4th overall vs anywhere from late first to FA.

There have been a few teams crazy enough to burn a top 5 pick on a RB in the last 5-6 years. Most (almost all) turned out to not even be 1st or 2nd round worthy,let alone top 5...or the equivalent of two later 1st rounders.

Unlike at other positions, where you might occasionally get lucky to land a great player in the late 2nd or 3rd round or later, it is the norm to find great backs later.

For example, cuurently out of the top 15 rushers in the NFL, only two went in the 1st round. Besides Zeke, the other went 27th overall. All the rest went later to way later.

The exact opposite is true with the top 15 QBs so far. Only 2 of 15 were not taken in Round 1...and many of those were top 5

At least it looks like Zeke will be good.
Trent Richardson he is not.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

But the fact that a few teams get a Thomas Rawls (who BTW has a total of 25 yards rushing this year) doesn't mean you can depend on it happening. The draft is about talent and the odds that you can get that talent to produce. And for your position that you can find stars anywhere in the draft, we have a UDFA QB in Romo that has been to Pro Bowls. But that doesn't mean you stop drafting QBs because you hit on a UDFA last time.

I agree with the general proposition that you don't draft RBs early. Joseph Randle is a nutcase but he provided a lot of value for a 5th round pick and he was taken in a talent rich draft where other, better players could have fallen to our pick in the 5th round. But there is no way Randle becomes a ten year starter for the team.

But the Cowboys had Elliot rated as the best player in this draft and he was available at the fourth pick. He was also a guy at a skill position and a position of need. Put those three factors together and he was the right pick (if the draft evaluation of him was correct).

Well, you're talking extremes now: Top 5 picks vs. Undrafted Rookie FAs

This isn't a "go big or go home" dilemma; there's 6 other rounds (if you wanna disclude the 1st round for whatever reason) that can be used to nab an RB. You don't have to hold your breath waiting to hit the lotto with a undrafted rookie. David Johnson, from a podunk Nothern Iowa, is one of the league's best young backs and was taken in the 3rd round.

But even in saying that, history has shown there to be a long list of extremely productive former rookie free agents: Adrian Foster, Ahmad Bradshaw, Thomas Rawls, Fred Jackson, Priest Holmes, Ryan Grant, Willie Parker, LaGarret Bount, Benjarvis Green-Ellis....

I understand why the Cowboys may have thought taking Elliott that high was needful. What I'm saying and many others are too, is that it wasn't the most prudent thing to do. When your team has been ~.500 since its last Super Bowl (1996), it means the decision-making isn't above reproach and questioning.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

He provided you that single RB in Gurley, then you moved the goalpsts.

(first three starts of their careers)

Thomas Rawls - 321 yards, 5.7 YPC (undrafted rookie FA)
Arian Foster - 419 yards, 5.8 YPC (undrafted roookie FA)
David Johnson - 378 yards, 5.6 YPC (3rd round pick)
Matt Forte - 304 yards, 4.1 YPC (2nd round pick)

Okay, literally none of this is true, nor do you cite a single thing. Besides, I said "games," not starts.

First three games -- Rawls had 106 yards, Foster had 34, Johnson had 67. Forte is the only apt comparison, but it's pretty bad when, in 10 years, you can find three guys that have performed as well their first three games, taken the reigns the way Zeke has. That's hundreds of rookies in a position in which rookies thrive, and you can cite three examples, two of which are fantastic vets and one is perhaps the best young RB in the NFL.

 

[Hardline]

Just pretend Dak was the 4th pick and Zeke was the 115th pick and shut the hell up.
Zeke will be an elite RB.
Ramsey is just a guy.


The Cowboys made the right decision and it's not even debatable.

 

[zrinkill]

Just pretend Dak was the 4th pick and Zeke was the 115th pick and shut the hell up.
Zeke will be an elite RB.
Ramsey is just a guy.


The Cowboys made the right decision and it's not even debatable.

This ........ the special people that wanted a safety at 4 instead of Zeke are gonna have to get over it.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Okay, literally none of this is true, nor do you cite a single thing. Besides, I said "games," not starts.

First three games -- Rawls had 106 yards, Foster had 34, Johnson had 67. Forte is the only apt comparison, but it's pretty bad when, in 10 years, you can find three guys that have performed as well their first three games, taken the reigns the way Zeke has. That's hundreds of rookies in a position in which rookies thrive, and you can cite three examples, two of which are fantastic vets and one is perhaps the best young RB in the NFL.

Cute.

Notice this romosexual has abandoned his initial claim from "you can't name a single RB" to "okay, I agree on Gurley" to "well, so, there's three RBs..."

Of course your claim doesn't even pass the hypocrite test. If you flipped this around where Zeke didn't register his first three starts until, say Week 5, with just a handful of sporadic carries in Week 1-2, and we ran the same comparison search you'd be saying "well, compare the games he actually started...why count games he just had one or two carries!!!"

Why?

Because any rational person would want a apples-to-apples comparison.

If you wanna throw away Arian Foster...fine. You still got 4-5 backs there that reasonably meet the criteria for comparison.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

Cute.

Notice this romosexual has abandoned his initial claim from "you can't name a single RB" to "okay, I agree on Gurley" to "well, so, there's three RBs..."

Of course your claim doesn't even pass the hypocrite test. If you flipped this around where Zeke didn't register his first three starts until, say Week 5, with just a handful of sporadic carries in Week 1-2, and we ran the same comparison search you'd be saying "well, compare the games he actually started...why count games he just had one or two carries!!!"

Why?

Because any rational person would want a apples-to-apples comparison.

If you wanna throw away Arian Foster...fine. You still got 4-5 backs there that reasonably meet the criteria for comparison.

All the guys you referenced except for Forte got a ton of snaps before their first "start." If you don't understand why that makes a difference, I can't help you.