Zeke or Jalen Ramsey 2 years later

[CPanther95]

Not just Ramsey, but the entire Jaguars 2016 draft.

Build your defense first. That'll buy the time you need to cultivate the next franchise QB. In the meantime, you can still remain competitive even with a Bortles caliber QB.

 

[Sandyf]

At the time it was Zeke for me because the offense needed someone like Zeke more than it needed someone like Ramsey. Both positions were necessary for the Cowboys then especially because we thought with Murray gone but with Romo and the O line that Zeke would be the added spark to win. Even though Romo went down, it turns out that because of drafting Zeke we were able to go 13-3 with a rookie QB and rookie RB.

How many games would Ramsey have won for us? None! Not even a thought. If we would have drafted Ramsey, sure he might of shutdown one side of the field but good QBs exploit the other side of the field and the run game. Sure with Dak and Morris at RB we might have gone 8-8 to maybe 10-6 although hard to tell but with Ramsey seriously does anyone believe we would have been more than 8-8.

Look at Jacksonville, yes they are in the playoffs this year but with a not so good QB but with a RB that is a great one that is a rookie. Ramsey improves the defense, no doubt but without a good running game, no way Jacksonville is in the playoffs.

It is still Zeke for me and it is not even close.

 

[Sydla]

If you want to control the clock (and tempo) on the ground you need an elite RB. NE does it through the air with the short passing game and that's a different animal. And it's not JUST controlling the clock (and tempo) - it's taking pressure off the passing game - making defenses put significant focus on stopping the run which opens up opportunities for the passing game.

The Cowboys are using a similar philosophy as the Cowboys from Garrett's playing days, and that would not have worked without an elite RB like Emmitt. As for having to use a top 5 pick to get that RB, top 5 just happened to be where they were picking that year. And of course there is a chance the team could have gotten a RB in later rounds, but no draft picks are certain, and the point of picking earlier is to make the odds better.

Something else I think is worth noting is the same arguments you are using against Elliott also apply to Ramsey. Quality CB's can also be found in later rounds, and it doesn't take a generational CB to win.

When you have an elite OL, you don't "need" an elite TB behind them.

 

[OmerV]

When you have an elite OL, you don't "need" an elite TB behind them.

Sounds like you are quoting Jerry Jones from after the 2014 season. Jerry found out that was wrong though.

 

[OmerV]

He didn't look great this year (was ok early on) and was hurt toward the end f the year. He know he didn't even play last week, right? He 100% lost his starting job in Tennessee

I suspect part of the Cowboys thinking at the time was that Murray had a history of injuries in college and the pros prior to his great 2014 season, and that he had carried a huge workload in that 2014 season, so they were worried about him holding up in the future.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Man stop it. Give me Zeke all day.

 

[fairviewfarmer]

Would Marinelli and his cohorts have put Ramsey in a position become an all pro here? I don't know that they would have. I'm still cool with Zeke being selected .

 

[Aviano90]

When you have an elite OL, you don't "need" an elite TB behind them.

This is correct. I've followed time of possession very closely this decade mainly due to claims our offense would go 3&out too many times causing the defense to get tired. Overall time of possession doesn't tell the whole story because both offense and defense play a part in who wins the overall TOP battle. I look at time of possession on a per drive average because that will tell you how well the offense and defense performs when they take the field.

The Cowboys have been one of the best teams at avoiding 3 & out and in ball control for a very long time. In 2014 we became exceptional in offensive time of possession per drive due to the commitment to the running game. We averaged 3:02 per possession. Then the 2015 debacle occurred, but the team led the league in TOP per drive up until the final weekend. We finished at 3:00 per possession, just 2 seconds lower than the previous year despite the eye ball test claiming we couldn't control the clock.

This year the team was averaging 2:51 seconds per offensive drive with Zeke. When Zeke sat out his 6 games, we increased our average TOP up to 2:54 per drive.

We struggled scoring the ball, but that was more of a reflection of the decrease in the passing game rather than the running game. But even in 2015 and 2017 without an "elite" RB we were able to control the clock on offense.

The defense and their ability to get the other team off the field in a timely manner is a different story.

 

[Nightman]

Not like they could have used a QB anyway. They have Bortles.

Nice dodge

 

[Jake0]

It's not just Ramsey vs Zeke, which is pretty close in and of itself. MANY forum posters here during the draft were calling for Ramsey + Derrick Henry in the 2nd. I won't get into the Jordan Howard discussion, that was few and far between, but obviously Ramsey + Jordan Howard would be the ultimate winner. Ramsey/Henry vs Zeke/Jaylon Smith, this isn't even a discussion worth debating. Nobody in their right mind wanted to blow a 2nd round pick on Jaylon Smith with his injury. Wasting all this time letting him try and get somewhere remotely close to 100% during his rookie contract when a draft pick's value is at its highest.

There's a ton more changes that would have happened, maybe Reuben Foster instead of Taco, someone else gets drafted instead of either Chido or Jourdan Lewis. Who knows. Ramsey + Henry is way better than Zeke alone and that's all we had last year.... Safe to say our team would have been stronger last year during our playoff push.

 

[Nightman]

Why would they take a CB at 4 when they just spent money on Bouye and had Ramsey?

Ivory and Yeldon aren't that great that you don't try to upgrade them.

And frankly, they ***** up taking Fournette. They should have taken a QB.

The rule is always take the CB or QB but JAX broke it just one year after drafting Ramsey

To your point........teams play more than 2 CBs at once and shut down CBs are to never be passed over

 

[Sydla]

Sounds like you are quoting Jerry Jones from after the 2014 season. Jerry found out that was wrong though.

Why? The 2015 season?

There no weaker an argument for why we needed Elliott than the 2015 season when we played the season with some of the worst QBs this franchise has seen.

If anything, that 2015 season should have told us we needed to trade up and get Goff or Wentz.

 

[lk8701]

How do you have a conversation with a rookie? Those 4 positions are called the 4 cornerstones of your football team. Is common knowledge.

Educate yourself:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...tions-importance-from-quarterback-to-returner

I would rank RB at 14.

 

[TheFinisher]

I wanted Ramsey but was also okay with the team selecting Zeke. You have to remember the thinking behind the Zeke pick was to extend the career of Tony Romo, which obviously didn't work out the way the team thought it would.

He's the only real playmaker on this offense and someone you can give the ball to 20-25 times a game so the return on production is worth it. For this team, with this OL we have it was the right pick. The only other comparable workhorses, Gurley and Fournette, were also top 10 selections... and you will see Saquon Barkley added to that list this year. RB has seen somewhat of a renaissance, and as long as Zeke keeps his nose clean (no guarantee) there will be nothing to complain about moving forward. Hopefully he uses this year as motivation.

 

[Verdict]

Ramsey was the right call at the time, no doubt about it. We got lucky with the DBs, sort of, this season, but should never have been in a position where 4 starters walked and we had to replace them all in one draft. That's just bad team management, and would have been worse had Anthony Brown not panned out as a 6th rounder that same year. Can you imagine?

Plus, Zeke plays a position that can readily be filled in rounds 2-4. And he was known to have character questions coming out, which did in fact bite us. I'm not absolving Goodell for that witch hunt, but Elliott had no business being in that situation to begin with.

I vote Zeke because I think drafting him means more wins for the team than Ramsey did. Plus we can never underestimate this team's ability to coach DBs into bad players. Give them time on Cheetoh and Lewis. It's coming. They will eventually lose whatever they learned in college and become yellow flag stars.

I think the only advantage we would have had with Ramsey was likely career longevity.

 

[TheFinisher]

Elliott would have been league MVP last year as a rookie if Matt Ryan didn't have a historically great season.

I know the suspension and down year as a team has left a sour taste for some, but we're gonna be very happy with Elliott the next 5-10 years. He's a special player.

 

[Idgit]

Nice dodge

Not sure what you were expecting. Because JAX made a mistake, too, and overvalued a RB our doing it was justified?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

So without Zeke in 2015 Dak would have won 13 games all by himself?

So the team wouldn’t have benefited from better corner play in the playoffs? We can play the “what if” game all day.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

So without Zeke in 2015 Dak would have won 13 games all by himself?

Dak was in college in 2015. That being said Dak wins just as many with Murray or Henry/Howard etc. I'm a big Zeke fan but wanted Ramsey no doubt.

 

[Nightman]

Not sure what you were expecting. Because JAX made a mistake, too, and overvalued a RB our doing it was justified?

You all talk about how it is 100% to take the CB and the one team that just benefited from the rule broke it the very next year....... Ramsey obviously didn't impress them much to go to Fournette

Then they even let DWatson go in favor of a RB and all you can say is that they had Bortles.....that is a joke...... way to stand behind the rule