Zeke or Jalen Ramsey 2 years later

Jipper

Jipper

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,461
Reaction score
22,418
who has the bigger impact on the game? Simply put zeke completly changes our offense when he is in, Ramsey makes a big impact but i dont know that i would say he completly changes their defense....at this point, id have to say zeke was the better choice for impact.
 
jazzcat22

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
79,632
Reaction score
99,772
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
condoin125 said:
Fine, I'll give you a fair shake. At least tell me why your emojis were necessary in response to what I wrote.
Click to expand...

I did, I just never seen or heard he is the best CB in the NFL.
I guess I thought your post was funny, as I took it that you was saying Ramsey is the best CB and Elliot is not the best RB.
There are a few RB's people will argue the best RB...but Zeke did not get a fair shake to prove any different. As some would say Gurley.

There are quite a few CB's that would be considered the NFL's best over Ramsey. Unless there is something out there I have not seen or heard.

Ramsey may very well become the best or top 2 or 3. But IMO he is not there yet.
 
KJJ

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
59,985
Reaction score
37,484
rkell87 said:
If we kept Murray we may not(probably not) draft high enough to draft Ramsey but I agree, Ramsey is the pick at 4 if Murray is still here, and the team would be in better shape.
Click to expand...

We still would’ve still had to draft high because of losing Romo. Even almost 1100 yards by McFadden wasn’t near good enough. You still need solid QB play.
 

DIAF

DivaLover159
Messages
4,654
Reaction score
736
Give me Ramsey all day every day. Zeke is a special talent at RB, but RBs are a dime a dozen. Corners are not.
 
OmerV

OmerV

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,029
Reaction score
22,574
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Sydla said:
Why? The 2015 season?

There no weaker an argument for why we needed Elliott than the 2015 season when we played the season with some of the worst QBs this franchise has seen.

If anything, that 2015 season should have told us we needed to trade up and get Goff or Wentz.
Click to expand...

We actually had a better running game as the season went on in 2015 than we did when Romo played early in the season. We also saw teams focus on going after Dak more in 2016 when Elliott was suspended, and that's when Dak's season really went downhill.

You seem to think the Cowboys use the running game like every other NFL team, and that's just not the case. In Dallas the running game is the driver - the passing game feeds off that. It is the opposite with most teams. Accordingly you can't treat the Cowboys needs at RB the way you do with other teams. The reason I lean toward Elliott over Ramsey is the entire premise of the offense hinges on the running game, but the entire premise of the defense does not hinge on one CB.

Just so you know, I would still be happy with Ramsey. He would have been a great choice as well, and I wouldn't have faulted the Cowboys for going that route. I'm just saying there was a very real and viable reason for the Cowboys making the choice they did.
 
Last edited:
Plankton

Plankton

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,145
Reaction score
18,296
Ramsey is good. Really good, in fact. With his length, quickness, aggressiveness and hitting ability, he's probably the top corner in the AFC, and perhaps the league (unless you prefer Patrick Peterson). If the Cowboys had selected him, I would not have had a problem with it. I did think he would be more effective at safety because of his blitzing ability, range on the back end, and hitting skill. He could be an Earl Thomas type of force back there. I did think he could play corner - I just thought that he would have been a better safety.

With Elliott, I totally get the argument about value of the position relative to opportunity cost. It makes perfect sense. However, the point of the draft is to acquire the best talent that you can. It cannot be disputed that Ezekiel Elliott is an elite talent. A potential Hall of Fame type talent. A dynamic, game changing player. Same goes for Jalen Ramsey on all counts. If you have an opportunity to get a HOF caliber talent, you take that shot, with the exception of tight end, punter or kicker. The Cowboys had Elliott as the top player on their board. He has to be the pick on that basis, or you render your evaluation process as useless.

Long term, it remains to be seen who will have a longer career. Elliott will take a physical pounding, and has off the field concerns that he needs to address independent of the rigors of playing running back in the league. Ramsey, on the other hand, shouldn't be exposed to a high volume of collisions like Elliott will be, but Ramsey has had surgeries in each offseason preceding training camp in his career (a knee cleanup and abdominal surgery). He also had a microfracture procedure in high school. Elliott, to this point, has been injury free in both college and the pros. It remains to be seen whether this is an issue long term for Ramsey or Elliott.
 
jazzcat22

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
79,632
Reaction score
99,772
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
OmerV said:
We actually had a better running game as the season went on in 2015 than we did when Romo played. We also saw teams focus on going after Dak more in 2016 when Elliott was suspended, and that's when Dak's season really went downhill.

You seem to think the Cowboys use the running game like every other NFL team, and that's just not the case. In Dallas the running game is the driver - the passing game feeds off that. It is the opposite with most teams. Accordingly you can't treat the Cowboys needs at RB the way you do with other teams. The reason I lean toward Elliott over Ramsey is the entire premise of the offense hinges on the running game, but the entire premise of the defense does not hinge on one CB.

Just so you know, I would still be happy with Ramsey. He would have been a great choice as well, and I wouldn't have faulted the Cowboys for going that route. I'm just saying there was a very real and viable reason for the Cowboys making the choice they did.
Click to expand...

Good post and explanation.
 
jazzcat22

jazzcat22

Staff member
Messages
79,632
Reaction score
99,772
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Plankton said:
Ramsey is good. Really good, in fact. With his length, quickness, aggressiveness and hitting ability, he's probably the top corner in the AFC, and perhaps the league (unless you prefer Patrick Peterson). If the Cowboys had selected him, I would not have had a problem with it. I did think he would be more effective at safety because of his blitzing ability, range on the back end, and hitting skill. He could be an Earl Thomas type of force back there. I did think he could play corner - I just thought that he would have been a better safety.

With Elliott, I totally get the argument about value of the position relative to opportunity cost. It makes perfect sense. However, the point of the draft is to acquire the best talent that you can. It cannot be disputed that Ezekiel Elliott is an elite talent. A potential Hall of Fame type talent. A dynamic, game changing player. Same goes for Jalen Ramsey on all counts. If you have an opportunity to get a HOF caliber talent, you take that shot, with the exception of tight end, punter or kicker. The Cowboys had Elliott as the top player on their board. He has to be the pick on that basis, or you render your evaluation process as useless.

Long term, it remains to be seen who will have a longer career. Elliott will take a physical pounding, and has off the field concerns that he needs to address independent of the rigors of playing running back in the league. Ramsey, on the other hand, shouldn't be exposed to a high volume of collisions like Elliott will be, but Ramsey has had surgeries in each offseason preceding training camp in his career (a knee cleanup and abdominal surgery). He also had a microfracture procedure in high school. Elliott, to this point, has been injury free in both college and the pros. It remains to be seen whether this is an issue long term for Ramsey or Elliott.
Click to expand...

And in the end after the last 2 drafts, both teams got what they needed and wanted. What each fit their systems and how they planned to use them.

2016. We got Elliott (4th pick overall) and they got Ramsey, both high 1st rounders
2017. They got Fournette (4th pick overall) and we got Awuzie and Lewis in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

All players contribute the way the teams ask of them.
 
KJJ

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
59,985
Reaction score
37,484
DIAF said:
Give me Ramsey all day every day. Zeke is a special talent at RB, but RBs are a dime a dozen. Corners are not.
Click to expand...

RBs like Zeke aren’t a dime a dozen. Don’t know how long you been following the Cowboys but if you were following the team back in the day would you have taken Deion over Emmitt? You can’t just stick any RB behind our OL and get the same exact results but some still don’t get that. Everything the Cowboys do on offense revolves around Zeke and the running game. We were rolling until he was suspended and it all came apart. No way does Ramsey make the type of impact on the team that Zeke has made. In 25 games played Zeke has scored 25 TDs.

There’s no possible way we go 13-3 last season with a rookie QB without Zeke. Swap Zeke for Ramsey and our defense would improve but not nearly to the extent our offense has improved with Zeke. Ramsey wouldn’t have the dramatic affect on the team that Zeke has had. Our offense wasn’t any good without him. We got to see for six games what life was like without Zeke and it was miserable.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
61,091
Reaction score
93,806
OmerV said:
We actually had a better running game as the season went on in 2015 than we did when Romo played early in the season. We also saw teams focus on going after Dak more in 2016 when Elliott was suspended, and that's when Dak's season really went downhill.

You seem to think the Cowboys use the running game like every other NFL team, and that's just not the case. In Dallas the running game is the driver - the passing game feeds off that. It is the opposite with most teams. Accordingly you can't treat the Cowboys needs at RB the way you do with other teams. The reason I lean toward Elliott over Ramsey is the entire premise of the offense hinges on the running game, but the entire premise of the defense does not hinge on one CB.

Just so you know, I would still be happy with Ramsey. He would have been a great choice as well, and I wouldn't have faulted the Cowboys for going that route. I'm just saying there was a very real and viable reason for the Cowboys making the choice they did.
Click to expand...

I've said no such thing. I just don't believe you have to use a Top 5 pick on a TB to do what we want to do. The running game is the driver but when you invested what you did in the OL, I don't believe you needed to go out and then use a Top 5 pick on a TB to get a good running game going.

Are you saying we couldn't do what we want to do offensively if we had Howard instead of Elliott? Or Hunt? Or Kamara?

Of course not. Elliott is a great player. But I think it was a waste of that pick taking a TB.
 
THEHEREAFTER

THEHEREAFTER

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
6,298
Whomever we picked, CZ would be clamoring for the other as the correct choice. We'd be salivating over every Zeke big play and whining any time Ramsey gave up a play. This is the CZ way of course.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top