Zeke or Jalen Ramsey 2 years later

[joseephuss]

Ramsey and Jordan Howard?

In order to draft Howard, Dallas would have had to pass on Dak. They then would have scrambled to find a QB after Romo and Moore(lol) were injured in the 2016 pre-season. And if Romo still retired, which I think he would have, Dallas would still be searching for a QB.

 

[Sydla]

WRONG........ they took Fournette in 2017 over Lattimore

Because they already had two top flight CBs. It would have been equally dumb to take a CB there as it was to take Fournette simply because of the make up of their team.

 

[Sydla]

In order to draft Howard, Dallas would have had to pass on Dak. They then would have scrambled to find a QB after Romo and Moore(lol) were injured in the 2016 pre-season. And if Romo still retired, which I think he would have, Dallas would still be searching for a QB.

Or take Howard instead of Tapper, also picked in the 4th by Dallas.

 

[Sydla]

Whomever we picked, CZ would be clamoring for the other as the correct choice. We'd be salivating over every Zeke big play and whining any time Ramsey gave up a play. This is the CZ way of course.

I think this is a bogus statement because people were pretty set in wanting Ramsey or Elliott before the draft and have been consistent up until this discussion.

 

[superonyx]

I've said no such thing. I just don't believe you have to use a Top 5 pick on a TB to do what we want to do. The running game is the driver but when you invested what you did in the OL, I don't believe you needed to go out and then use a Top 5 pick on a TB to get a good running game going.

Are you saying we couldn't do what we want to do offensively if we had Howard instead of Elliott? Or Hunt? Or Kamara?

Of course not. Elliott is a great player. But I think it was a waste of that pick taking a TB.

I'll say the answer is no. Put any one of the guys on this team instead of Zeke and we wouldn't have the same results. Kamara is a situational runner in space.
The difference Zeke makes isn't just YPC or any stat line. The difference is the threat he brings makes the defenses account for him on every play. Right now Zeke has more impact on the defensive gameplanning than any back in the league and its not even close.

I can't even say Ramsey is the best CB on his own team yet. A.J. Bouye wasn't even drafted and he is playing at maybe a higher level than Ramsey.

Now I like Ramsey and think highly of him. But just like people find probowl RB's in later rounds doesn't mean people don't also find probowl CB's in later rounds.....Look at the top 10 CB's in the league and you may be surprised where they were drafted...Guys like Sherman, Norman ect.....

 

[dragon_mikal]

Because they already had two top flight CBs. It would have been equally dumb to take a CB there as it was to take Fournette simply because of the make up of their team.

And yet they didn’t turn the corner and make the playoffs until they drafted a RB. Hmmm...

Maybe it’s a combination of the two. Maybe having a great running back isn’t something to be lamenting about.

This thread is freakin’ dumb.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

How about the third alternative- draft neither. Either move up, and take a QB with downfield accuracy, or trade down for more picks. Zeke is an outstanding player, but I still think using a #4 overall pick on a RB is a mistake. I would rather have a 1st round QB and a 4th round RB than a 1st round RB and a 4th round QB.

 

[OmerV]

Ramsey may already be the best CB in the NFL....Ramsey by a mile.

Elliott may already be the best RB in the NFL too. The stupid things off the field are really the biggest concern.

 

[Sydla]

I'll say the answer is no. Put any one of the guys on this team instead of Zeke and we wouldn't have the same results. Kamara is a situational runner in space.
The difference Zeke makes isn't just YPC or any stat line. The difference is the threat he brings makes the defenses account for him on every play. Right now Zeke has more impact on the defensive gameplanning than any back in the league and its not even close.

I can't even say Ramsey is the best CB on his own team yet. A.J. Bouye wasn't even drafted and he is playing at maybe a higher level than Ramsey.

Now I like Ramsey and think highly of him. But just like people find probowl RB's in later rounds doesn't mean people don't also find probowl CB's in later rounds.....Look at the top 10 CB's in the league and you may be surprised where they were drafted...Guys like Sherman, Norman ect.....

Simply don't agree. You overvalue Elliott and undervalue other top RBs in this league. Kamara is more than a situational runner.

I've always been firm on this. I simply don't believe the value is there for TBs. I didn't want them to sign Murray to a big deal and I didn't want them to use the 4th pick on a TB. And regardless of how Elliott does, I am pretty sure I won't like the fact we may drop our pants and pay him a crap load in a 2nd contract too.

Now, if we hadn't invested what we had in the OL, I might feel differently. But I think this OL gave you the luxury of not having to have the very best TB behind them to have a good running game.

 

[KJJ]

The Cowboys would have to make a big change to their offense for Zeke not to be so important. We’re a run first team and everything we do depends on a solid running game. We’ve modeled ourselves after the 90s offenses that depend on a great back and a great OL. The great 93 team started 0-2 without Emmitt. Had we had to go with Morris and Smith the entire season we probably wouldn’t have won more than six or seven games. Zeke is the only player we have that adds explosiveness to the offense. He can score from anywhere on the field in the running game and in the passing game and he puts points on the board. With all the issues we had this season we were only one win behind Jacksonville. The Jags D has gotten them where they are but they have a number of good defensive players, it’s not just Ramsey.

If you were to take him out of their lineup it’s not like they’re going to just start dropping games one after another. The Cowboys simply aren’t the same team without Zeke, not even close. Without a great running game we can’t function. A great running game led by the leading rusher in the league led to a 12-4 season in 2014 and a 13-3 season in 2016. It led to career best seasons for Romo and Dak. Anyone who thinks Ramsey in place of Zeke would make the Cowboys a better team are kidding themselves, especially having a young QB who’s still developing as a passer.

 

[Sydla]

And yet they didn’t turn the corner and make the playoffs until they drafted a RB. Hmmm...

Maybe it’s a combination of the two. Maybe having a great running back isn’t something to be lamenting about.

This thread is freakin’ dumb.

Fournette averaged less than 4 yards a carry. So I don't really think the addition of Fournette made them a playoff team. Frankly, it was probably the culture change with Coughlin brought in to run operations and Marrone that had the biggest effect............... not taking a RB in the Top 5.

 

[OmerV]

RB is my favorite position. So I would rank it higher. But there is no denying that getting a great RB can be done almost anywhere in the draft. And certainly plenty in rounds 2-5.

Look at the 2016 draft and list all the "great RB's" that were drafted in rounds 2-5. So far I think Howard from the Bears is the only one that has shown anything close to that.

 

[the_h0wey]

It's been 2 full seasons (minus a bogus 6 game suspension)! Zeke won a rushing title his rookie year and probably would've won a second consecutive rushing title had he not served a 6 game suspension in the middle of the season.

Jalen Ramsey is considered to be a top corner in the National Football League and typically covers the #1 WR on the opposing team.

The Cowboys had an opportunity to draft either player 2 years ago and selected Zeke. At the time I really wanted Jalen Ramsey; however, I'm a bit torn now. I think Zeke is extremely important to this team (probably more important than most people think). With the emergence of Chidobe Awuzie, Jourdan Lewis, and Anthony Brown - I feel pretty 'ok' with our secondary, but Ramsey/Awuzie/Lewis & possibly Brown would be stellar in my opinion.

What are your thoughts?

In my perfect world we paid Demarco Murray which would then make the pick Jalen Ramsey

 

[Nightman]

The Cowboys would have to make a big change to their offense for Zeke not to be so important. We’re a run first team and everything we do depends on a solid running game. We’ve modeled ourselves after the 90s offenses that depend on a great back and a great OL. The great 93 team started 0-2 without Emmitt. Had we had to go with Morris and Smith the entire season we probably wouldn’t have won more than six or seven games. Zeke is the only player we have that adds explosiveness to the offense. He can score from anywhere on the field in the running game and in the passing game and he puts points on the board. With all the issues we had this season we were only one win behind Jacksonville. The Jags D has gotten them where they are but they have a number of good defensive players, it’s not just Ramsey.

If you were to take him out of their lineup it’s not like they’re going to just start dropping games one after another. The Cowboys simply aren’t the same team without Zeke, not even close. Without a great running game we can’t function. A great running game led by the leading rusher in the league led to a 12-4 season in 2014 and a 13-3 season in 2016. It led to career best seasons for Romo and Dak. Anyone who thinks Ramsey in place of Zeke would make the Cowboys a better team are kidding themselves, especially having a young QB who’s still developing as a passer.

It would be moronic to create a Run based offense, invest heavy in the OL and then go cheap on RB

 

[KJJ]

Remove Zeke and add Ramsey and you’re going to have to hope that Ramsey can help the defense win football games every week because our offense would sputter. Just look at it in the games without Zeke. I can tell you right now that we don’t have near enough on defense for a great corner to help us win football games defensively every week. Jacksonville put up 55 sacks this season so a big part of their defensive success was getting after the QB.

 

[OmerV]

Or take Howard instead of Tapper, also picked in the 4th by Dallas.

This is bogus thinking for several reasons. One is you have hindsight vision that Howard has worked out, but the Cowboys wouldn't get to make a pick with that same hindsight vision. Accordingly they may just as easily have taken any number of the other RBs drafted that haven't worked out - there are a lot more of them than the one that did. The second is, even if the Cowboys somehow had it figured out that Howard was going be very good, they couldn't know 5 picks into the draft if he would be available when he was. Third, to draft Howard they would have had to pass on Dak. Finally, something fans easily lose sight of is the fact that even one team making one different pick would change how much of the draft goes, therefore we can't truly know who would have ben available each time Dallas was on the clock.

 

[joseephuss]

How about the third alternative- draft neither. Either move up, and take a QB with downfield accuracy, or trade down for more picks. Zeke is an outstanding player, but I still think using a #4 overall pick on a RB is a mistake. I would rather have a 1st round QB and a 4th round RB than a 1st round RB and a 4th round QB.

Hard to assume they had willing trade partners for either a trade up or a trade down. They probably looked into both options and couldn't find the return value for either scenarios. Maybe a good thing as they could have ended up with Paxton Lynch. Dallas ended up with a great player in Elliott. I understand people have their preferences, but let's not pretend the Cowboys are stuck with a bum. And had they picked Ramsey they would have a solid player and not a bum, either, but would still be lacking at another position. You only get one pick at a time.

 

[GenoT]

At the time of the draft, we had both Morris and McFadden at RB, but we had a weak secondary. My thought at the time was, take Ramsey. However, I also believed that Zeke running behind our O-line was the surest thing in that draft.

Two years later, seems like a win for both teams.

 

[NextGenBoys]

Ramsey in the 1st, Jordan Howard in the 5th.

Just another stupid Dallas decision trying to emulate the 90s

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Hard to assume they had willing trade partners for either a trade up or a trade down. They probably looked into both options and couldn't find the return value for either scenarios. Maybe a good thing as they could have ended up with Paxton Lynch. Dallas ended up with a great player in Elliott. I understand people have their preferences, but let's not pretend the Cowboys are stuck with a bum. And had they picked Ramsey they would have a solid player and not a bum, either, but would still be lacking at another position. You only get one pick at a time.

Well the Cowboys certainly could have moved up to #2. That pick was available, and the Eagles leapfrogged us. It would have cost us, but it cost the Eagles more, as they had farther to move up. I view having the #4 overall pick as a rare opportunity.