It's about that time ladies and gents, hang it up on Jason Witten

[Hoofbite]

1. Tony Romo ($27.773M)

2. Tyron Smith ($13.093M) His base salary is fully guaranteed, an indication the team plans on converting most of it into a signing bonus in order to lower his cap number.

Tyron's 2015 salary is guaranteed because it's only year 2 of his contract.

Neither of these contracts should be restructured, and it would be monumentally foolish to do so with Tyron.

 

[DanteEXT]

He's never been a high YAC guy. You don't have a career average of 11.1 yards/catch while geting tons of yards after the catch.

Witten's numbers are down because - shockingly - his targets are down. Witten was target 111 times last year, 147 in 2012. 65 targets this year.

His targets are down because - bigger surprise here - Romo's attempts are down. Dallas is on pace for 100 fewer attempts than last year, 170 fewer attempts than 2012. 6 less attempts per game compared to last year, 11 less compared to 2012.

Pretty simple. Dallas is running much better than before and as a consequence they aren't passing as much. Also, the improved running has pretty much made it unnecessary to supplement the failed running game with short quick dunks to the sideline.

People say he's in decline. I just wanna know from what position? It's not like he has ever been some athletic world wonder. He's always been a guy who's gotten open with his technique.

Nice. Exactly what I was thinking. If Romo's attempts were down but Wittens targets remained the same (or increased) we'd have a bunch of TO's on here complaining Romo and Witten were having private meetings and creating plays.

 

[big dog cowboy]

He's never been a high YAC guy. You don't have a career average of 11.1 yards/catch while geting tons of yards after the catch.

Witten's numbers are down because - shockingly - his targets are down. Witten was target 111 times last year, 147 in 2012. 65 targets this year.

His targets are down because - bigger surprise here - Romo's attempts are down. Dallas is on pace for 100 fewer attempts than last year, 170 fewer attempts than 2012. 6 less attempts per game compared to last year, 11 less compared to 2012.

Pretty simple. Dallas is running much better than before and as a consequence they aren't passing as much. Also, the improved running has pretty much made it unnecessary to supplement the failed running game with short quick dunks to the sideline.

People say he's in decline. I just wanna know from what position? It's not like he has ever been some athletic world wonder. He's always been a guy who's gotten open with his technique.

Nice post Hoof.

 

[LatinMind]

Wouldn't call 470 yards and 4 touch downs productive from a so called star Tight end and safety blanket. I'd call that sluggish and ineffective. Can't get complacent with the older players off of what they "have did" instead of what they are "are doing". There's a Reason why the good teams stay at the upper echelon and we've just now got a taste of it with it drying up fast.

that usually happens when you have a RB who is killing the league running the ball. Stats are going to be down. Witten is like having a 6th OL out there blocking on run plays if you havent noticed.

 

[iceberg]

It's a fan forum, discussion is what we do, not sure why you are here if you can't handle that

And discussion of said "opinion" will be a part of that. I dont know why....

 

[cowboys1981]

I will not support the idea. Especially if Romo is still healthy enough to be here. Witten is Tony's go to guy. If Tony throws to Jason it is almost guaranteed yardage pickup. Doesn't matter if it's 11 or 3. Yardage is yardage. Unless it is 3rd and 10 and Jason is at the 3 in heavy coverage. Then we might be in trouble, but if that was the case, Tony shouldn't be throwing to him anyway, because he knows Witten better than any of us do. But there are very few balls Tony throws Jason's way that don't add up to getting closer to a first down, or getting the first down. I know Tony forces it Witten sometimes that makes me scratch my head, because it adds up to nothing, but if you look at Jason, he's scratching his head, too. And then of course, is Jason's blocking ability, which some would argue is the reason he is still out there, anyway.

Now, I don't want to get into arguments with any of yall, I am not proficient in football speak, and undoubtedly could never get into a deep discussion with any of you, very respectively, football minded folk, who astound me with all of the knowledge you all possess, just stating my opinion of Jason Witten's worth. I had to stand up and speak my peace about him. He is worth having and worth keeping. And I hope some day when he retires, he stays on as one of our coaches. And there is no reason on Earth why we should even ponder getting rid of him yet. And for heaven's sake, Please keep Escobar! Let Witten continue to be his mentor, because if we can hold on to This dude, he will be our prize one day. Escy has a lot to offer, but he still is learning from the master. Let the protege learn, and let the master teach. And let's get together in a year or two and talk then. I say let Jason Witten retire on his own with dignity and class, just like the man he is, and not force him out prematurely because we are desperate for something to change. Canning Witten will not change a thing for us.
Peace.

Nice!!

 

[Cowboy06]

It's about time to hang up the curtain on our boy Jason Witten. Hate to say it but all NFL players get old and lose a step or two and Witten is no different.

To me it seems like he's just a shell of himself. I never see him able to hit the seems like years past or even be much of a factor besides grabbing 5 yard passes when the O-line gives Romo decades to pass. I don't think he should be benched, but rather have his snap count cut by 40% for now. So we can use this great young weapon in Escobar with his fresh legs!

Could it be that we need more creative sets? I would like to see Escobar, Hanna, Witten and Dez on the field. I want to see 3 TE set and see what teams do. I think Hanna and Escobar can stretch the field. Witten still has good hands and Dez...well Dez is Dez. He could be that X factor that draws a double coverage. I think you could run out this set and play action pass as well. Just my opinion.

 

[xwalker]

Tyron's 2015 salary is guaranteed because it's only year 2 of his contract.

Neither of these contracts should be restructured, and it would be monumentally foolish to do so with Tyron.

Why?

They could franchise Dez and restructure Romo or Tyron to make it work OR they could sign Dez long term and push money from his contract into future years. Either way there would be money pushed forward. It doesn't matter who's contract is pushing the money forward.

A team is operating at a disadvantage if they don't push any money into future years. Obviously, there is a reasonable limit and they should go max restructure and push every possible dollar into the future, but in general pushing money into the future is an advantage.

 

[Red Dragon]

It's about time to hang up the curtain on our boy Jason Witten. Hate to say it but all NFL players get old and lose a step or two and Witten is no different.

Do you mean "hang up the cleats?"

 

[mahoneybill]

Witten is not a seam TD type TE. He's a possession/blocker.

In the end as long as he can continue to block he will be here.

 

[Hoofbite]

Why?

They could franchise Dez and restructure Romo or Tyron to make it work OR they could sign Dez long term and push money from his contract into future years. Either way there would be money pushed forward. It doesn't matter who's contract is pushing the money forward.

A team is operating at a disadvantage if they don't push any money into future years. Obviously, there is a reasonable limit and they should go max restructure and push every possible dollar into the future, but in general pushing money into the future is an advantage.

Nobody is operating at a disadvantage by not restructuring.

The league as a whole doesn't just blindly push money into future. Many teams don't even spend all the free space they have. In that case, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the advantage in doing it as a standard of practice when most teams don't even need to in the first place.

 

[Eddie]

I think it's time for the GM to hang up his cleets. Pat him on the back and tell him what a good job he did.

 

[Blackspider214]

I'm not opposed. I think this offense would be a lot more explosive if we had a TE who could stretch the field.

 

[Eddie]

I'm not opposed. I think this offense would be a lot more explosive if we had a TE who could stretch the field.

Martellus Bennett's having a good year. We nailed that 2nd round pick.

 

[xwalker]

Nobody is operating at a disadvantage by not restructuring.

The league as a whole doesn't just blindly push money into future. Many teams don't even spend all the free space they have. In that case, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the advantage in doing it as a standard of practice when most teams don't even need to in the first place.

All teams give players signing bonuses that lower the initial early years cap hits. What teams have a large amount of unused space under the cap? The Jaguars?

The Patriots have less 2015 cap space than the Cowboys.

Yes, it's not impossible to have a good team without excessively pushing money into the future, but there is not big advantage to not doing it.

As long as a team does not go over the certain amount, then the money in the future never really comes due. It does come due to specific players but is offset by pushing other player's money into the future.

I've posted extensively about this in past years. Basically there is a current spend amount that is different than the cap hit amount for each team. The simple example is a team that was 50M over the cap in year 1 and then only spent within the cap in all future years. Each year that 50M was pushed forward and each prior year it appeared that they were 50M over the cap in the upcoming year.

Cap Limit 100M
Year 1 spend 150M, push forward 50M to year 2 to get under the cap
Year 2 50M from previous year plus 100M current spend, must push 50M forward again
Year 3 repeat of year 2
.
.
.

It's a very simplistic example with the push forward only being 1 year at a time, but it illustrates why the push forward money never actually comes due. Since there is no interest on the money pushed forward, there is no disadvantage to doing it.

Now if the current spend is over the cap limit, then the 50M number will increase each year and would not be sustainable.

The bottom line is that people see the salary cap like business or personal finances, but it's just not the same. Pushing money forward is a zero interest loan that get paid off each year with a new zero interest loan. It never really comes due unless the current spend exceeds the cap and the Cowboys have not been doing that most years.

In 2014 of the ~130M salary cap, only about 102M was current spend. The rest was push forward money.

 

[Bluefin]

Tyron's 2015 salary is guaranteed because it's only year 2 of his contract.

Neither of these contracts should be restructured, and it would be monumentally foolish to do so with Tyron.

Both are going to be restructured.

Foolhardy or not, this is how Dallas manages its salary cap.

And there is no reason not to restructure Tyron Smith, he's young and isn't going anywhere.

It would be foolish not to.

Tony Romo is an injury risk, but he can be released for a savings with the June tag in 2016 even with a restructure next year.

 

[nalam]

Agreed Jason Was never a huge YAC guy, but that wasn't the point, in this era of Rob Grownaski and Graham as TEs , we need a TE who is a bit explosive , if you are watching patriots and GB game you can see Rob as explosive as ever , taking couple of Guys into almost to the goal lines, where as 260lb JW falls straight tackled by a 180lb DB. The whole point was making our offense explosive , especially we know , Escobar adds that element, also we have invested a 2nd round pick

 

[Hoofbite]

All teams give players signing bonuses that lower the initial early years cap hits. What teams have a large amount of unused space under the cap? The Jaguars?

The Patriots have less 2015 cap space than the Cowboys.

Yes, it's not impossible to have a good team without excessively pushing money into the future, but there is not big advantage to not doing it.

As long as a team does not go over the certain amount, then the money in the future never really comes due. It does come due to specific players but is offset by pushing other player's money into the future.

I've posted extensively about this in past years. Basically there is a current spend amount that is different than the cap hit amount for each team. The simple example is a team that was 50M over the cap in year 1 and then only spent within the cap in all future years. Each year that 50M was pushed forward and each prior year it appeared that they were 50M over the cap in the upcoming year.

Cap Limit 100M
Year 1 spend 150M, push forward 50M to year 2 to get under the cap
Year 2 50M from previous year plus 100M current spend, must push 50M forward again
Year 3 repeat of year 2
.
.
.

It's a very simplistic example with the push forward only being 1 year at a time, but it illustrates why the push forward money never actually comes due. Since there is no interest on the money pushed forward, there is no disadvantage to doing it.

Now if the current spend is over the cap limit, then the 50M number will increase each year and would not be sustainable.

The bottom line is that people see the salary cap like business or personal finances, but it's just not the same. Pushing money forward is a zero interest loan that get paid off each year with a new zero interest loan. It never really comes due unless the current spend exceeds the cap and the Cowboys have not been doing that most years.

In 2014 of the ~130M salary cap, only about 102M was current spend. The rest was push forward money.

Over half the league is set to have $18M or more in 2015. May be before carry over amounts are even considered.

There is no advantage to freeing up cap space that isn't inherently present for teams that have cap space without pushing money forward.

Saying its a "zero interest loan" sounds great but you should probably also start looking at your purchase in terms of depreciating value. Older players produce less, and pushing money shifts cap allocations to future years. Basically you're using more cap dollars for less production down the line.

What that looks like in practical terms is a cap figure that is too high to justify, players leaving for other teams, and dead money on the books. Also looks like not resigning players who are productive.

Perhaps these scenarios sound familiar?

The Jones boys spoke frequently about the position they were in the offseason. What they said sure wasn't the "I laugh at the cap garbage" they were spouting a few years ago.

Wonder what changed....

 

[Hoofbite]

Both are going to be restructured.

Foolhardy or not, this is how Dallas manages its salary cap.

And there is no reason not to restructure Tyron Smith, he's young and isn't going anywhere.

It would be foolish not to.

Tony Romo is an injury risk, but he can be released for a savings with the June tag in 2016 even with a restructure next year.

That's how they have managed the cap in the past but the fact that they didn't restructure Carr and Ware should give pause to the notion that they'll continue to do so as the default method of managing the cap.

If they restructure Tyron next year, in what year will they not restructure him? His cap hits over the next 4 seasons are pretty much unchanged. They restructure all of those years as well?

 

[big dog cowboy]

I think it's time for the GM to hang up his cleets. Pat him on the back and tell him what a good job he did.

Martellus Bennett's having a good year. We nailed that 2nd round pick.

This is a thread about Jason Witten. What you posted is straight up trolling. Please stop.