It's about that time ladies and gents, hang it up on Jason Witten

[xwalker]

Over half the league is set to have $18M or more in 2015. May be before carry over amounts are even considered.

There is no advantage to freeing up cap space that isn't inherently present for teams that have cap space without pushing money forward.

Saying its a "zero interest loan" sounds great but you should probably also start looking at your purchase in terms of depreciating value. Older players produce less, and pushing money shifts cap allocations to future years. Basically you're using more cap dollars for less production down the line.

What that looks like in practical terms is a cap figure that is too high to justify, players leaving for other teams, and dead money on the books. Also looks like not resigning players who are productive.

Perhaps these scenarios sound familiar?

The Jones boys spoke frequently about the position they were in the offseason. What they said sure wasn't the "I laugh at the cap garbage" they were spouting a few years ago.

Wonder what changed....

Looking at the projection for 2015 is not really an apple to apples comparison. Some teams have several big name free agents while other teams have most of their big name players under contract. Suh will not show up under the Lions 2015 projection, but it they want to keep him that's at least 12M per year average for his contract and it will not show up in current projections of their cap.

What you're referring to are the problems related to signing players to bad contracts. If you don't sign the right players then you won't be good regardless of the cap issues.

You're paying current players with future cap money and the cap goes up over time. That is an advantage when used to sign productive free agents.

Most people either can't or won't try to understand, but the bill never really comes due for money that is pushed into the future if it is managed correctly.

 

[CowboyStar88]

I didn't mention any of this so it would appear the argument is with voices in your head. I've been watching for 22 years and Witten is not a liability. Escobar is not that much of an asset. And the measure of a tight end isn't 100 yard games. Beasley emerging as a third down marker mover is going to detract from Jason's numbers, same with Murrays carries. I was at the Jags game sitting at the end zone when he ran down the seam and had Romo miss him. Looked sharp to me. But I'm no expert on fresh legs.

You need to have your eyes checked. Escobar has the talent to be a huge asset. However he has a HOF TE in front of him. I would expect his workload to increase in the playoffs (if the team makes it) and next year. They are going to have to make decisions on Witten based on his age and cap hit soon

 

[Arkyvarminter]

It's about time to hang up the curtain on our boy Jason Witten. Hate to say it but all NFL players get old and lose a step or two and Witten is no different.

To me it seems like he's just a shell of himself. I never see him able to hit the seems like years past or even be much of a factor besides grabbing 5 yard passes when the O-line gives Romo decades to pass. I don't think he should be benched, but rather have his snap count cut by 40% for now. So we can use this great young weapon in Escobar with his fresh legs!

HUH...no

 

[Hoofbite]

Looking at the projection for 2015 is not really an apple to apples comparison. Some teams have several big name free agents while other teams have most of their big name players under contract. Suh will not show up under the Lions 2015 projection, but it they want to keep him that's at least 12M per year average for his contract and it will not show up in current projections of their cap.

What you're referring to are the problems related to signing players to bad contracts. If you don't sign the right players then you won't be good regardless of the cap issues.

You're paying current players with future cap money and the cap goes up over time. That is an advantage when used to sign productive free agents.

Most people either can't or won't try to understand, but the bill never really comes due for money that is pushed into the future if it is managed correctly.

Yes, teams have contracts expiring and will add new contracts to the mix. There's still varying cap amounts.

I don't see why that is worth noting.

As for the good or bad signings aspect, anyone who could manage things correctly by avoiding bad contracts wouldn't need the extra space in the first place.

The truth is all contracts carry risk be it injury, drop off, or even legal troubles.

Some teams avoid lemons better than others. Unfortunately, Dallas had a few year span where they were lemon magnets. They used restructuring for the next few years to cover their previous mistakes, not to get some sort of imaginary bonus.

 

[joseephuss]

If your biggest argument is Jason Wittens 5 catches for 70yds against the Washington Commanders while we had our back up QB, focusing on him as a safety blanket than your are eyes are clouded my friend. Don't know how long youve been watching this team, but for the season already 5 games shy away from being over and Witten hasn't reached 500yards or even a 100yd game yet.

You probably wanted to get rid of Jay Novacek in 1993 and 1994 when he didn't get 500 yards for the entire season while the league leaders were finishing with twice as many yards as Jay those years.

 

[Bluefin]

That's how they have managed the cap in the past but the fact that they didn't restructure Carr and Ware should give pause to the notion that they'll continue to do so as the default method of managing the cap.

They did it this year with Tony Romo.

Brandon Carr's contract was designed to be restructured this year, but the team could have done it in order to create more cap room.

Carr and Jason Witten's deals were probably left alone because the decision to release DeMarcus Ware freed up so much money.

And Ware's deal had been restructured almost every prior year. It didn't prevent Dallas from saying goodbye.

If they restructure Tyron next year, in what year will they not restructure him? His cap hits over the next 4 seasons are pretty much unchanged. They restructure all of those years as well?

Tyron Smith's 2015 base salary ($11.039M) is already guaranteed, so the Cowboys have no reason not to turn most of it into a signing bonus and reduce his cap hit.

Smith's 2016 base salary ($10M) can become guaranteed, likely by being on the roster at the start of that league year (the exact details aren't known).

That doesn't mean the team will restructure the deal, but it's designed to be done if necessary.

Any restructures after 2016 aren't planned, but the option would always be there. And even with restructures in 2015 and '16, the final three years of Smith's year still wouldn't contain any prorated signing bonus money that could potentially become dead money.

 

[BAZ]

You need to have your eyes checked. Escobar has the talent to be a huge asset. However he has a HOF TE in front of him. I would expect his workload to increase in the playoffs (if the team makes it) and next year. They are going to have to make decisions on Witten based on his age and cap hit soon

Yeah, like Bennett and Fasano? Fool me once shame on.....well shame on your dumb reference to checking eyes.

 

[Hoofbite]

They did it this year with Tony Romo.

Brandon Carr's contract was designed to be restructured this year, but the team could have done it in order to create more cap room.

What are you basing this on? What tells you that the contract was designed to be restructured this year?

And Ware's deal had been restructured almost every prior year. It didn't prevent Dallas from saying goodbye.

No, it just played a part in preventing them from keeping him and now he has half as many sacks as Dallas' entire defense.

Tyron Smith's 2015 base salary ($11.039M) is already guaranteed, so the Cowboys have no reason not to turn most of it into a signing bonus and reduce his cap hit.

They have plenty of reason to not do that. No increase in prorated money, and subsequently cap numbers for later years. As a result, insanely cheap LT cap hits in the future when a premier LT will undoubtedly cost more than the $10M/year he will from 2019 to 2021. Lastly, he's playing right now and there's no telling what could happen over the next 4-5 years.

When is Tyron's play more likely to justify a $13M cap charge? 2015 after seeing him play at a high level for the last few seasons or 4 seasons later in 2019 after playing at a to-be-determined level leading up to 2019?

Over which time span is he more likely to sustain injuries? The 16 games in 2015 or the 64 games spanning 2016 to 2019?

His play is not a question right now, and his health is not a question right now. He's a proven commodity right now.

Top LTs have high cap charges. There's no need to force those numbers any higher down the road by coming in low on a proven commodity that you currently posses.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Yeah, like Bennett and Fasano? Fool me once shame on.....well shame on your dumb reference to checking eyes.

So if your chick cheats on you are you going to hold it against every girl you met after? Just curious. Last time I checked Escobar is playing behind a guy who missed all of 1 game. So who is the fool here? If you think that every player drafted is the same I feel sorry for you. MartyB has proven to be a good player however he was behind a future HOF. Escobar has a shot because Witten is now on the downside of his career. The point is you are blind and can't see his talent all you see is draft status.

 

[BAZ]

So if your chick cheats on you are you going to hold it against every girl you met after? Just curious. Last time I checked Escobar is playing behind a guy who missed all of 1 game. So who is the fool here? If you think that every player drafted is the same I feel sorry for you. MartyB has proven to be a good player however he was behind a future HOF. Escobar has a shot because Witten is now on the downside of his career. The point is you are blind and can't see his talent all you see is draft status.

All I see is you licking his balloon knot with a lack of production to merit it. Make all the childish eyesight jokes you want but his eight catches on the year speaks more than your man crush. If he could block like Hanna his snap count would be up. But here we are again arguing over Witten holding players back. Doesn't even have a hundred yards on the year. Why would I have confidence in that? Until a player shows it over an extended period of time never buy in. I assume last year you wanted Selvie on a ten year deal. Gather your lego boy.

 

[CowboyStar88]

All I see is you licking his balloon knot with a lack of production to merit it. Make all the childish eyesight jokes you want but his eight catches on the year speaks more than your man crush. If he could block like Hanna his snap count would be up. But here we are again arguing over Witten holding players back. Doesn't even have a hundred yards on the year. Why would I have confidence in that? Until a player shows it over an extended period of time never buy in. I assume last year you wanted Selvie on a ten year deal. Gather your lego boy.

Nice way to put words in my mouth, I never stated Witten held anyone back. So not only do you have an eye sight issue your reading comprehension sucks as well. It's no secret he needed to get stronger in the weight room. It's not just about the stats but obviously in your fantasy football world that's all you see. However his measurable and athletic ability tell another story. If he is as terrible as the picture you painted the staff wouldn't put him out there to create matchup problems in the slot or flanked out wide. Maybe if you stopped crying over a draft pick from 2005 and 2008 and realize this is 2014 and a month away from 2015 and see that not every player is built the same things won't seem like such a disappointment. Ask the Falcons what it's like trying to replace a HOF TE. Heck the Lions spent another pick on a TE so did the Bengals and before Hernandez went all gun crazy the Pats spent high picks as well. Don't be so ignorant over a 2nd year player

 

[Bluefin]

What are you basing this on? What tells you that the contract was designed to be restructured this year?

The Brandon Carr part was a typo.

His deal was not meant to be restructured this season.

When a player signs a contract and it has really high second and/or third year base salaries that are already guaranteed, that means the team is planning on restructuring those years.

Tony Romo's contract was designed to be restructured this year and next, notice how the 2016 base salary is so much smaller? That's because Dallas plans on leaving Romo's deal alone that year and every year thereafter.

Carr had a huge guaranteed second year salary that was restructured last season, which was the plan all along.

Tyron Smith only received a $10M signing bonus this year, so his cap number went up by just $2M. His 2015 base salary is already guaranteed and the 2016 base salary is going to become fully guaranteed if he's on the roster that year.

I expect he will be restructured both years.

If Dez Bryant gets a multi-tear deal during the off-season, it will probably have a similar strucutre, whether it's with high base salaries or roster bonuses.

No, it just played a part in preventing them from keeping him and now he has half as many sacks as Dallas' entire defense.

The Cowboys could have kept DeMarcus Ware if they wanted to, Nick Eatman said Ware was willing to take a pay cut to reduce his cap number to the same amount that would be generated with his release.

They didn't want to keep Ware.

They have plenty of reason to not do that. No increase in prorated money, and subsequently cap numbers for later years. As a result, insanely cheap LT cap hits in the future when a premier LT will undoubtedly cost more than the $10M/year he will from 2019 to 2021. Lastly, he's playing right now and there's no telling what could happen over the next 4-5 years.

Almost all of the signing bonus pro-ration will be gone in 4-5 years.

The signing bonus this year ends in 4 years (2018), the proposed bonus in 2015 would end in 5 years (2019) and the 2016 bonus would end 6 years (2020) from now.

It's a non-issue.

When is Tyron's play more likely to justify a $13M cap charge? 2015 after seeing him play at a high level for the last few seasons or 4 seasons later in 2019 after playing at a to-be-determined level leading up to 2019?

Over which time span is he more likely to sustain injuries? The 16 games in 2015 or the 64 games spanning 2016 to 2019?

His play is not a question right now, and his health is not a question right now. He's a proven commodity right now.

Top LTs have high cap charges. There's no need to force those numbers any higher down the road by coming in low on a proven commodity that you currently posses.

It's interest free.

The cap is jumping by $10M or more a year now

Do you want to create cap space now while we still have Tony Romo and Jason Witten and try to win?

 

[xwalker]

Yes, teams have contracts expiring and will add new contracts to the mix. There's still varying cap amounts.

I don't see why that is worth noting.

I'm still not certain that you're following what I'm saying. The bill for pushing money forward never has to be paid if you don't exceed the break point.

 

[BAZ]

Nice way to put words in my mouth, I never stated Witten held anyone back. So not only do you have an eye sight issue your reading comprehension sucks as well. It's no secret he needed to get stronger in the weight room. It's not just about the stats but obviously in your fantasy football world that's all you see. However his measurable and athletic ability tell another story. If he is as terrible as the picture you painted the staff wouldn't put him out there to create matchup problems in the slot or flanked out wide. Maybe if you stopped crying over a draft pick from 2005 and 2008 and realize this is 2014 and a month away from 2015 and see that not every player is built the same things won't seem like such a disappointment. Ask the Falcons what it's like trying to replace a HOF TE. Heck the Lions spent another pick on a TE so did the Bengals and before Hernandez went all gun crazy the Pats spent high picks as well. Don't be so ignorant over a 2nd year player

I only put words in your mouth because you lack the ability of forming coherent sentences. I didn't call him terrible that's just your confused little mind clutching at straws to salvage this pointless argument.

Allow me to put this as simple as possible for you. If it's not about stats then why are you faulting Witten?

Escobar should be chasing Wittens snaps, currently he's battling Hanna, nobody on this forum wants that. You have some bug in your area if a perceived slight. Get over it and see the forest for the trees.

 

[CowboyStar88]

I only put words in your mouth because you lack the ability of forming coherent sentences. I didn't call him terrible that's just your confused little mind clutching at straws to salvage this pointless argument.

Allow me to put this as simple as possible for you. If it's not about stats then why are you faulting Witten?

Escobar should be chasing Wittens snaps, currently he's battling Hanna, nobody on this forum wants that. You have some bug in your area if a perceived slight. Get over it and see the forest for the trees.

Who is faulting Witten? You missed the point and I can't help you with that. You are the one so hell bent on dogging Escobar for no reason other then you got fooled 2 times in almost 10 years. Get over it.

 

[BAZ]

Who is faulting Witten? You missed the point and I can't help you with that. You are the one so hell bent on dogging Escobar for no reason other then you got fooled 2 times in almost 10 years. Get over it.

You don't have a point. It just seems that way because of your vitriolic word vomit. Escobar is Canton bound I'm sure. How could he not be with your backing?

 

[CowboyStar88]

You don't have a point. It just seems that way because of your vitriolic word vomit. Escobar is Canton bound I'm sure. How could he not be with your backing?

Yeah because I said he is Canton bound. Bought my 89 HOF jersey

 

[TellerMorrow34]

It's about time to hang up the curtain on our boy Jason Witten. Hate to say it but all NFL players get old and lose a step or two and Witten is no different.

To me it seems like he's just a shell of himself. I never see him able to hit the seems like years past or even be much of a factor besides grabbing 5 yard passes when the O-line gives Romo decades to pass. I don't think he should be benched, but rather have his snap count cut by 40% for now. So we can use this great young weapon in Escobar with his fresh legs!

Hmmmm...I think I've got a much better idea of what should go and be said bye to instead.

 

[BAZ]

Yeah because I said he is Canton bound. Bought my 89 HOF jersey

Wow you really put me in my place with that killer smiley.

I'll conceded because clearly I'm dealing with an insanity man with far too much time on his one free hand. Those 17 catches for 230 yards are a HUGE asset and he is the future. Only a fool would claim different. With any luck he will be the new Hernandez minus the double homicide. Lets just hope he only kills it on the pitch! Huh? HUH! amirite or what? UP TOP!

Two targets since the big Giants game, same as Hanna, this is not a good sign.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Wow you really put me in my place with that killer smiley.

I'll conceded because clearly I'm dealing with an insanity man with far too much time on his one free hand. Those 17 catches for 230 yards are a HUGE asset and he is the future. Only a fool would claim different. With any luck he will be the new Hernandez minus the double homicide. Lets just hope he only kills it on the pitch! Huh? HUH! amirite or what? UP TOP!

Two targets since the big Giants game, same as Hanna, this is not a good sign.

Ok mouth breather whatever you say...