Question for the workout people

[Toruk_Makto]

And in the first sentence after the chart it says those are AVERAGES.
It notes that there are up front gains for many reasons which have been seen by most every person alive who has ever actually lifted a friggin weight.

I am going to assume that doesn't include you if you are being this insipid and willfully lying to yourself about the articles you link.

I gained 45 pounds of total weight in 3 months.
I didn't measure muscle and didn't care to.
I was bigger, stronger, faster with better cardio and went from a freshman wide receiver to a sophomore varsity linebacker in 10-5A Texas high school football.
I looked great and was lean. 5'11", 165 running a 4.65 40 with visible 6 pack. I was also the schools best cross country runner.

Muscle gains PER fiber may well be limited but the body can in fact grow. People gain height and weight rapidly all the time. Shaq was a 6'6" freshman that graduated high school over 7 foot tall with about 50 pounds of weight gain. Jason Sasser signed with Tech as a 6'3" junior out of south Oak Cliff and showed up 6'7" only 18 months later. Crazy odd for that late bloomer but it happens.

No one gains muscle weight alone. It is virtually impossible via the same science. The process of adding muscle requires support and those supporting factors boost weight.
That is why bodybuilders even with drug intervention bulk then cut. They can't add weight sufficently without supporting water/fat.

You are trying to make a scientific argument but you really have zero real world idea of what in the heck you are talking about.
Instead of paying attention to the the more than half the people in the thread giving you real life examples you are suggesting they are all lying which makes you a pretty big tool.

No one doubted you gained 45 lbs as a teen in 3 months. We doubted that you gained 20lbs of muscle. In fact I know you didn't.

Also i'm an athlete. I lift and work out. I'm 6'1 and can dunk a basketball (two handed) off a drop step right now in dress shoes. Nevermind that whole formal training in biology thing.

So i'm very aware of weight gain...especially beginners gains.

But that is total weight. Not muscle. That was everyone's point.

 

[dogberry]

Army Basic Training.

10 lbs.

Unsupervised access to company C chocolate milk machine.

Left side of the bell curve.

 

[Corso]

Ahhh so you measured that you gained 20 lbs of muscle because.... "you looked good."

Well now I'm convinced.

You can definitely be abrasive, can't you? Almost all the time...

 

[Craig]

Yeah you arent putting on these massive muscle gains in one shot. When youre putting on a lot of weight rapidly, its certainly some muscle and its also a lot of fat. You dont put one one without the other. Thats the whole purpose of weight lifters going through bulk and cut phases.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You can definitely be abrasive, can't you? Almost all the time...

A bit annoyed in this thread specifically. I try to educate and i've been called out. One person said I wasn't a good athlete. I am apparently jealous of other people's accomplishments. I've had posts censored.

And why? For quoting science. Well established peer reviewed science.

 

[jobberone]

I don't think i've been uncivil. I'm just stating that physically it is impossible to gain 20lbs of muscle mass in 3 months.

I was a Biomedical Engineering major, spent every summer working in a musculoskeletal tissue engineering lab, wrote the MCAT and got into a top med school. I then decided not to go....worked in finance....got my MBA from a top 10 school...and now work at one of the most prestigious investment banks on Earth.

Are we done peacocking?

To the OP I hope you now see how impossible it'd be for Randy to gain so much weight in muscle mass. But 10lbs of good weight is doable and the Cowboys are working him through it.

Your mocking posts towards me and others are uncivil. A few are amusing after that not much.

If you are going to quote one article as the end all be all definitive work on a scientific topic than I won't take that seriously esp if you are too adversarial. Get the proper training and do an exhaustive study on the subject matter, then be authoritative.

Observation is the bedrock of science. Watching an apple fall to the ground or measuring the time it takes different objects to fall from height is just as valid as years of study looking at the orbital velocities of stars around an apparent massive object.

If you wish to know the weather look out the damn window. If you want to know how you look peer into a mirror. You can tell the difference between someone morbidly obese at 6-2 230 and one with a lean body mass at 6-2 and 230 who is muscular and fit. I don't need a chart, measurements or calculations to know what my experienced eyeballs are viewing.

Don't expect a warm response if you walk up to the Chairman of Mathematics and tell him he's wrong because you read an article.

I apologize for getting rather annoyed with you but it wasn't entirely unreasonable.

Exit stage left.

 

[Corso]

A bit annoyed in this thread specifically. I try to educate and i've been called out. One person said I wasn't a good athlete. I am apparently jealous of other people's accomplishments. I've had posts censored.

And why? For quoting science. Well established peer reviewed science.

No worries on my end. I was wondering if something was setting you off a bit more than usual.

 

[Corso]

Your mocking posts towards me and others are uncivil. A few are amusing after that not much.

If you are going to quote one article as the end all be all definitive work on a scientific topic than I won't take that seriously esp if you are too adversarial. Get the proper training and do an exhaustive study on the subject matter, then be authoritative.

Observation is the bedrock of science. Watching an apple fall to the ground or measuring the time it takes different objects to fall from height is just as valid as years of study looking at the orbital velocities of stars around an apparent massive object.

If you wish to know the weather look out the damn window. If you want to know how you look peer into a mirror. You can tell the difference between someone morbidly obese at 6-2 230 and one with a lean body mass at 6-2 and 230 who is muscular and fit. I don't need a chart, measurements or calculations to know what my experienced eyeballs are viewing.

Don't expect a warm response if you walk up to the Chairman of Mathematics and tell him he's wrong because you read an article.

I apologize for getting rather annoyed with you but it wasn't entirely unreasonable.

Exit stage left.

 

[xwalker]

And in the first sentence after the chart it says those are AVERAGES.
It notes that there are up front gains for many reasons which have been seen by most every person alive who has ever actually lifted a friggin weight.

I am going to assume that doesn't include you if you are being this insipid and willfully lying to yourself about the articles you link.

I gained 45 pounds of total weight in 3 months.
I didn't measure muscle and didn't care to.
I was bigger, stronger, faster with better cardio and went from a freshman wide receiver to a sophomore varsity linebacker in 10-5A Texas high school football.
I looked great and was lean. 5'11", 165 running a 4.65 40 with visible 6 pack. I was also the schools best cross country runner.

Muscle gains PER fiber may well be limited but the body can in fact grow. People gain height and weight rapidly all the time. Shaq was a 6'6" freshman that graduated high school over 7 foot tall with about 50 pounds of weight gain. Jason Sasser signed with Tech as a 6'3" junior out of south Oak Cliff and showed up 6'7" only 18 months later. Crazy odd for that late bloomer but it happens.

No one gains muscle weight alone. It is virtually impossible via the same science. The process of adding muscle requires support and those supporting factors boost weight.
That is why bodybuilders even with drug intervention bulk then cut. They can't add weight sufficently without supporting water/fat.

You are trying to make a scientific argument but you really have zero real world idea of what in the heck you are talking about.
Instead of paying attention to the the more than half the people in the thread giving you real life examples you are suggesting they are all lying which makes you a pretty big tool.

One last post since you quoted me. I went to med school for 4 years and have 6 years of formal postdoctoral training which includes Internal Medicine, General Surgery and OB/GYN. I also passed my boards in Emergency Medicine via the grandfather clause. I worked for one year in a burn unit where almost every patient was given nutrition via hyperalimentation. So I had formal training in nutrition and hyperalimentation both centrally and peripherally as well as years of studying how the human body functions.

So forgive me if I don't lend any credence to your claims I don't know the science when all you've done is scoff and mock.

Now that I've vented my annoyance let me say that any further posts that directly or indirectly mock, imply people are creatively telling nontruths, or whatever else is less than civil will have their posts deleted.

He (Toruk_Makto) is abrasive, but I think he is making a good points.

Any examples of High School kids would not really be valid to this discussion. They are still growing, as in their bones are still getting bigger.

The studies are for adults. I think at 21 Gregory is in the adult category.

The study results indicate that an adult that has not previously weight trained has the potential to gain muscle at the faster rate which is somewhere around 2 pounds per month.

Sure, maybe athletes in the 99 percentile could exceed the norms, but that's maybe 5% to 10% at the very best which equates to 2.2 pounds per month.

The athlete in the 99 percentile issue is offset by the fact that he is not new to weight training and would therefore be more in the 1 pound per month category.

I'm hopeful that nobody gets censored unless they're breaking forum rules.

 

[CrownCowboy]

Yeah, 20 pounds in a year is not happening.

The most I have ever seen a person personally gain in a year is about 12 pounds of muscle and the guy really did it in about 14 months instead of a year. The main reason he gained that much besides the massive amounts of calories, protein and workout time was because he was a newbie in the gym and had never lifted weights before. I'm not saying other people haven't gained more or it's never been done but that's just the most that I have ever seen in that timeframe.

With that being said, I think Gregory can get up to 260 rather quickly, but it won't all be muscle. It will be more fat and water weight than muscle.

On a side note for me personally. Creatine really helped me out in my workouts. It really helped me add strength and helped me gain mass over time quicker as opposed to when I wasn't taking it. Just thought I'd plug creatine in there, lol.

 

[CrownCowboy]

He (Toruk_Makto) is abrasive, but I think he is making a good points.

Any examples of High School kids would not really be valid to this discussion. They are still growing, as in their bones are still getting bigger.

The studies are for adults. I think at 21 Gregory is in the adult category.

The study results indicate that an adult that has not previously weight trained has the potential to gain muscle at the faster rate which is somewhere around 2 pounds per month.

Sure, maybe athletes in the 99 percentile could exceed the norms, but that's maybe 5% to 10% at the very best which equates to 2.2 pounds per month.

The athlete in the 99 percentile issue is offset by the fact that he is not new to weight training and would therefore be more in the 1 pound per month category.

I'm hopeful that nobody gets censored unless they're breaking forum rules.

I am not discrediting anybody because I know that this subject can be at times, note I said at times, very subjective to the individual and how their bodies are.

With that being said, I have to agree with everything in your above post. I think you hit it spot on as to what to expect when building muscle as an adult and whether or not a person has weight trained before.

 

[AsthmaField]

Yeah, 20 pounds in a year is not happening.

The most I have ever seen a person personally gain in a year is about 12 pounds of muscle and the guy really did it in about 14 months instead of a year. The main reason he gained that much besides the massive amounts of calories, protein and workout time was because he was a newbie in the gym and had never lifted weights before. I'm not saying other people haven't gained more or it's never been done but that's just the most that I have ever seen in that timeframe.

With that being said, I think Gregory can get up to 260 rather quickly, but it won't all be muscle. It will be more fat and water weight than muscle.

On a side note for me personally. Creatine really helped me out in my workouts. It really helped me add strength and helped me gain mass over time quicker as opposed to when I wasn't taking it. Just thought I'd plug creatine in there, lol.

Creatine makes me cramp up like a MoFo...

 

[CrownCowboy]

Creatine makes me cramp up like a MoFo...

Yeah it does have some things that are undesirable as well.

I get too bloated on it but I can deal with that for how it helps me in other ways. Of course I take a wash out period after about a couple months on it.

 

[Hardline]

You're going to start growing boobs.

Testosterone is a male hormone.

 

[jterrell]

He (Toruk_Makto) is abrasive, but I think he is making a good points.

Any examples of High School kids would not really be valid to this discussion. They are still growing, as in their bones are still getting bigger.

The studies are for adults. I think at 21 Gregory is in the adult category.

The study results indicate that an adult that has not previously weight trained has the potential to gain muscle at the faster rate which is somewhere around 2 pounds per month.

Sure, maybe athletes in the 99 percentile could exceed the norms, but that's maybe 5% to 10% at the very best which equates to 2.2 pounds per month.

The athlete in the 99 percentile issue is offset by the fact that he is not new to weight training and would therefore be more in the 1 pound per month category.

I'm hopeful that nobody gets censored unless they're breaking forum rules.

If a person gains 15 pounds of muscle they are going to gain AT LEAST another 5 pounds of weight.

No one is suggesting Randy Gregory is going to be trying to win Mrs Fitness USA.
His goal is added weight and strength which will mean a much larger gain than in just muscle alone.

The continued focus and lamentations about pure lab-isolated raw muscle gain in physically mature adults are just sequitars to no where.
It has zero to do with anything.

21 is borderline for adult males in cut off for physical maturity. Some do bloom late and gain height and overall size after that but they are extreme outliers.

Randy has been in a world class program at Nebraska and is unlikely to see the kinds of gains many have when exploding in size.
He simply doesn't have those factors going for him.

A realistic goal for Randy would be 20 pounds in one year. 13 or so of that likely muscle.
For training camp he better try to get on about 10 pounds much of it water weight.
That's just to withstand the physical beating.

BTW, we all heard Demarco Murray would gain 20 pounds for games in water weight alone just last year.
So we probanly should stop pretending it just couldn't happen. Gregory could take the field at 250 with water weight next year just following Murray's MMA plan and never touching a weight.

Most MMA fighters put on 20-40 pounds in the 30 hours between weigh ins and fight time.

 

[AsthmaField]

Testosterone is a male hormone.

And taking artificial testosterone for too long a period will lower your own bodies ability to produce testosterone and when you stop taking the artificial test, your own body isn't making enough... and girly thingies start to grow up there.

Or at least that's how it was told to me.

 

[Doc50]

My dad went from 120 to 165 during Boot Camp for the Marine Corps in the 70s.
So I know that is possible.

Guys with potential to add weight that hadn't previously had access to lots of food and lots of workload can add weight very fast.

I went form 120 to 165 myself as a freshman in high school. I worked out every weekday of the summer on weights, swimming and basketball because that's what the rec center had and I was up there 6-8 hours per weekday. I ate a lot but had no supplements other than gatorade and raw eggs in milk.

But at that age, you had your testosterone surge, which was the main reason the increased muscle mass and weight was achievable.

Other such anecdotal evidence is also likely associated with the natural rise of GH and testosterone, even if it's delayed until 18 or 19.

 

[jterrell]

Yeah, 20 pounds in a year is not happening.

The most I have ever seen a person personally gain in a year is about 12 pounds of muscle and the guy really did it in about 14 months instead of a year. The main reason he gained that much besides the massive amounts of calories, protein and workout time was because he was a newbie in the gym and had never lifted weights before. I'm not saying other people haven't gained more or it's never been done but that's just the most that I have ever seen in that timeframe.

With that being said, I think Gregory can get up to 260 rather quickly, but it won't all be muscle. It will be more fat and water weight than muscle.

On a side note for me personally. Creatine really helped me out in my workouts. It really helped me add strength and helped me gain mass over time quicker as opposed to when I wasn't taking it. Just thought I'd plug creatine in there, lol.

Yup. It helps you retain water which floods the muscles. That adds strength so you can lift heavier weights which promotes further muscle growth.
It is like a legal and non dangerous version of Dianabol.

There was once a legal over the counter called Spawn. My nephew used that working with me and gained about 25 pounds in 3 months. A lot of that was water but he got much stronger and set all his personal bests. And he's spent his entire life as a string bean so he needed the water.
Once they outlawed spawn he lost the water weight and his strength has waned a bit.
It acted much like illegal Dianabol.

For him the creatine isn't strong enough to overcome his genetic build.

 

[KJJ]

Gregory is trying to add bulk this offseason. I assume muscle and not fat??

Isn't it impossible to add 10 or 20 pounds of muscle in such a short time without PEDs?

I started working out a few years ago and it took me a year to add 20 pounds of muscle.

Genetics play a big part in the time it takes to add muscle. I read where the average body builder can add about 2 1/2 pounds of muscle per month but that may be with steroid use. Age, bone structure and muscle length play a part in how fast a person can add muscle.

 

[xwalker]

If a person gains 15 pounds of muscle they are going to gain AT LEAST another 5 pounds of weight.

No one is suggesting Randy Gregory is going to be trying to win Mrs Fitness USA.
His goal is added weight and strength which will mean a much larger gain than in just muscle alone.

The continued focus and lamentations about pure lab-isolated raw muscle gain in physically mature adults are just sequitars to no where.
It has zero to do with anything.

21 is borderline for adult males in cut off for physical maturity. Some do bloom late and gain height and overall size after that but they are extreme outliers.

Randy has been in a world class program at Nebraska and is unlikely to see the kinds of gains many have when exploding in size.
He simply doesn't have those factors going for him.

A realistic goal for Randy would be 20 pounds in one year. 13 or so of that likely muscle.
For training camp he better try to get on about 10 pounds much of it water weight.
That's just to withstand the physical beating.

BTW, we all heard Demarco Murray would gain 20 pounds for games in water weight alone just last year.
So we probanly should stop pretending it just couldn't happen. Gregory could take the field at 250 with water weight next year just following Murray's MMA plan and never touching a weight.

Most MMA fighters put on 20-40 pounds in the 30 hours between weigh ins and fight time.

Agree.

There is more than one question implied in this thread.

1. How much muscle weight can person gain per month, and specifically how much can Gregory gain.

2. How much useful weight can Gregory gain by the beginning of the season. This would be total weight not just muscle. It could include water and fat. He does not need to have an extremely low body fat so gaining some fat in addition to muscle is OK.