Jerry Jones says Cowboys will NOT draft QB with no. 4 pick *Super Hot Pants Mega Merge*

[SilverStarCowboy]

Every thing about this guy is a "projection", even down to where to actually play him.

LOL- get ready for a lot more 'projection' after his workout.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

Agreed.

Don't like anything about Bosa.

Buckner has all the measurables, not sure what he adds though. Also, we already have a LDE. We need a RDE.

Don't know where Ramsey will play, same goes for Jack.

Also not sure the impact an OLB has in this defense. Also not sure the impact a non-playmaking DB has in this defense. Also not sure the impact a run-stopping LDE has on this defense

Elliot steps right in as a starter, 3 down back, a playmaker, and help for QB (who is apparently playing til he's 40) and offense (which was lethargic without a true lead back).

People talk about not taking a runningback high, and yet, it was our running game which got us thinking championship in the first place. Without our running game in 2014, Garrett would've been fired and we'd be the dregs of the NFL again.

Teams are all geared up to stop the pass, and that's why we did so well by pounding the ball, eating clock and physically dominating teams in 2014. Seems to me that the NFL is cyclical--trends develop (ie, shotgun, spead offenses) when one style of play is successful, teams copycat that formula and then the entire league seems to be headed in one direction (reliance on passing game). But then some teams come along, see these trends and instead of copycatting, use a tried and true method for countering these trends (ie., running the ball and controlling the clock). And then the dominant style of play changes from throw, throw, throw to run, run, run and round and round we go.

That's one of the reasons we did so well in 2014. Nothing has changed since then.

Elliott

 

[Stash]

LOL- get ready for a lot more 'projection' after his workout.

I couldn't care less. Projection isn't production and running really fast or jumping really high doesn't change that.

If the Cowboys pass on a quarterback for this athletic 'projection', they deserve each and every bit of the fail they get.

But you enjoy watching somebody run really fast!

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I couldn't care less. Projection isn't production and running really fast or jumping really high doesn't change that.

If the Cowboys pass on a quarterback for this athletic 'projection', they deserve each and every bit of the fail they get.

But you enjoy watching somebody run really fast!

Yeh, that's the ticket.

 

[mattjames2010]

Really? How many games did Jack start and play at middle linebacker? Because you show a few plays on tape, it's "proof" that he can do it? Everything about this guy outside of his athleticism is speculation and projection. What are we arguing about here? That I said that he absolutely never played there? Fine he played there. Or that you feel that 3 games qualifies as proof? I think we know that's not the case either.



Except for those pesky pedestrian production statistics. Not all of the tape you can watch can inflate the, over what they truly are.



Never in question. There's no disputing that he's a great athlete. But that doesn't make for a great player.





And your evaluations are based on some nice plays on some game tape, rather than overall numbers that don't show the productivity one would expect from such a player.

I'm not saying the guy can't play, he's obviously a great athlete with a lot of ability and potential. What I am saying is that I don't want to see the team using the #4 overall pick on him. And based on your initial comment above, we actually agree on that so I see little point in continuing to argue over other, smaller details.

You continue to say this. Dude, what aren't you understanding?

He was lining up all over the place. Watch. His. Film. A good portion of his games he was lining up as a freakin' nickel corner! He's not going to have typical LB statistics.

I really don't know what else you need. Need another film to watch? Here.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Really? How many games did Jack start and play at middle linebacker? Because you show a few plays on tape, it's "proof" that he can do it? Everything about this guy outside of his athleticism is speculation and projection. What are we arguing about here? That I said that he absolutely never played there? Fine he played there. Or that you feel that 3 games qualifies as proof? I think we know that's not the case either.



Except for those pesky pedestrian production statistics. Not all of the tape you can watch can inflate the, over what they truly are.



Never in question. There's no disputing that he's a great athlete. But that doesn't make for a great player.





And your evaluations are based on some nice plays on some game tape, rather than overall numbers that don't show the productivity one would expect from such a player.

I'm not saying the guy can't play, he's obviously a great athlete with a lot of ability and potential. What I am saying is that I don't want to see the team using the #4 overall pick on him. And based on your initial comment above, we actually agree on that so I see little point in continuing to argue over other, smaller details.

The only issue that matters is you said Jack did not and can not play the Mike, you are wrong on both accounts.

Yes, proof is that Jack has played many positions throughout his game tape, it would only take one play at the Mike to prove your argument wrong, you should have watched the game tape, you failed to do so.

Since when does making categorical statements on a player without looking at the game tape make any sense?

Jack also was moved around and played the edge, will, sam and corner/safety positions, his versatility allows for flex, something Eberflus covets.

Jack only played 29 games, played RB and defense while being mostly being moved around because of his elite coverage ability, so how they used Jack explains a lot in terms of basic statistics.

Further, Jack projects as a will linebacker on the next level but has played all three linebacker positions throughout his overall body of work.

To argue unless he was exclusively playing one position he therefore can not play any other is foolishness.

The fact is they played him at all these other positions precisely because he had the ability to play them accordingly.

I am sure their defense coordinator played him at the Mike position at times because he knew he could not play it, that really makes sense.

Common sense will tell you they moved Jack around due to his elite athleticism including playing slot corner, safety and RB including all three linebacker positions.

Just because you do not think Jack is a top 5 prospect because of statistics means nothing, scouts and evaluators have him in the top 5 discussion because he has the talent and ability to line up everywhere.

 

[fredp22]

Since qb seems to be out I would go for

1 Zeke
2 Zeke
3 Zeke
4 or Zeke

 

[KJJ]

We can go through it item by item if you really want to be embarrassed. You just let me know.

We'll even do a poll so you can see just how badly you're doing.

You just said you were taking off now here you are coming back because I got your panties all in a wad and you think you're embarrassing me??? lol I got news for you pal I'm going to keep tightening that wad until your eyes pop out. You should have bailed while you had the chance now I have you cornered and you have no way out but to run. I want you to go through everything (specifically) you say I'm wrong about item by item and provide some facts that prove me wrong. Put up or get going!

 

[Stash]

You continue to say this. Dude, what aren't you understanding?

He was lining up all over the place. Watch. His. Film. A good portion of his games he was lining up as a freakin' nickel corner! He's not going to have typical LB statistics.

I really don't know what else you need. Need another film to watch? Here.

Thanks, but I don't need anything to watch. I don't want the Cowboys drafting this "projected"/ conversion player with the #4 overall pick.

No sacks, few interceptions, virtually no forced fumbles. Essentially zero game-changing plays. Just what this defense that tied the league record for futility needs.

The #4 overall pick on a weakside linebacker/ nickel corner? Is this Bizarro world or what?

By the way, I can direct you to some Brandon Weeden highlights too if you'd like to see those.

And in those, he's actually making plays too.

 

[mattjames2010]

Thanks, but I don't need anything to watch. I don't want the Cowboys drafting this "projected"/ conversion player with the #4 overall pick.

No sacks, few interceptions, virtually no forced fumbles. Essentially zero game-changing plays. Just what this defense that tied the league record for futility needs.

The #4 overall pick on a weakside linebacker/ nickel corner? Is this Bizarro world or what?

By the way, I can direct you to some Brandon Weeden highlights too if you'd like to see those.

And in those, he's actually making plays too.

"I'm not going to watch his film or even try to understand! Here's my opinion anyways"

You're special, kid.

 

[Stash]

The only issue that matters is you said Jack did not and can not play the Mike, you are wrong on both accounts.

Answer the question, how many games did he start there?

]Yes, proof is that Jack has played many positions throughout his game tape, it would only take one play at the Mike to prove your argument wrong, you should have watched the game tape, you failed to do so.

That's what I figured. If he lined up there

Since when does making categorical statements on a player without looking at the game tape make any sense?

That's what I figured, you want to make a case out of a few plays here and there for proof that "he played there" . You go for it. If that qualifies for you, have at it. You keep your low standards. He played nickel cornerback a ton too. Put that on his list of accomplishments and tell me I'll be getting one of those too. Heck, we on,y need to play with 8 other guys because your hero can handle the other 3.

Jack also was moved around and played the edge, will, sam and corner/safety positions, his versatility allows for flex, something Eberflus covets.

And has a career 1 sack, 4 INT's and one forced fumble. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Jack only played 29 games, played RB and defense while being mostly being moved around because of his elite coverage ability, so how they used Jack explains a lot in terms of basic statistics.

Further, Jack projects as a will linebacker on the next level but has played all three linebacker positions throughout his overall body of work.

To argue unless he was exclusively playing one position he therefore can not play any other is foolishness.

The fact is they played him at all these other positions precisely because he had the ability to play them accordingly.

I am sure their defense coordinator played him at the Mike position at times because he knew he could not play it, that really makes sense.

Common sense will tell you they moved Jack around due to his elite athleticism including playing slot corner, safety and RB including all three linebacker positions.

Just because you do not think Jack is a top 5 prospect because of statistics means nothing, scouts and evaluators have him in the top 5 discussion because he has the talent and ability to line up everywhere.

And just because you want to pump him up means "nothing" too. The fact is that he "lined up" all over the field, and didn't make game-changing plays anywhere. And then he rushed to the NFL, despite the fact that he was injured, and even his own head coach questioned him, but you want to shill for a guy who's essentially a dog chasing cars out there.

If he was making these game-changing plays that people like you would have us believe, there would be evidence. But the sad fact is that there isn't. Because he didn't.

But hey, he runs really fast!

 

[Rogerthat12]

You continue to say this. Dude, what aren't you understanding?

He was lining up all over the place. Watch. His. Film. A good portion of his games he was lining up as a freakin' nickel corner! He's not going to have typical LB statistics.

I really don't know what else you need. Need another film to watch? Here.

You nailed it Matt, people that form an opinion without actually looking at the game tape have no basis by which to ground their opinion properly.

 

[Stash]

"I'm not going to watch his film or even try to understand! Here's my opinion anyways"

You're special, kid.

Save it. You can watch all the film you want, as many times as you want. You won't see more than 1 sack 4 INT's and 1 forced fumble in his career.

No matter how many times you watch it, those numbers don't go up.

 

[Stash]

You nailed it Matt, people that form an opinion without actually looking at the game tape have no basis by which to ground their opinion properly.

1 sack 4 INT's and 1 forced fumble - for his career! But hey! You stay in that film room! Maybe some more productivity will actually show up.

 

[Rogerthat12]

You have nothing, when the game tape demonstrates the player actually successfully playing the position when you claimed he NEVER played the position and can not, you have lost your argument.

You really need to watch the tape of players before attempting to argue about what they have and have not done and what they can and can not do on the next level.

You have admitted you were wrong, I know you are wrong and the tape verifies you are wrong.

 

[Rogerthat12]

1 sack 4 INT's and 1 forced fumble - for his career! But hey! You stay in that film room! Maybe some more productivity will actually show up.

Because you have not watched the tape, you apparently have no clue what they asked him to do, let's compare apples to oranges again and come up with meaningless statistics.

Closing your eyes real hard and avoiding watching the tape is not going to change the fact that Jack can do it all.

Jack played RB, S, Corner, Edge Rush and all three linebackers positions and moved around all the time, his statistics are based off 29 career games while being moved around on a regular basis, this will impact base statistics.

If you can not understand how that would impact base statistics then you are simply not being honest in an attempt to prove a point.

Ultimately it does not matter what you say because Jack is already a top 5 prospect in this draft, I guess everyone else fails to see what you see!

 

[mattjames2010]

You nailed it Matt, people that form an opinion without actually looking at the game tape have no basis by which to ground their opinion properly.

That INT he made in that game was sweet. It's one thing to sit in the middle of the field and spy like many LBs do and get a pick, but following a slot receiver down the field and snatching the ball out of the air? Really impressive stuff.

I wasn't entirely impressed with him when I first watched his clips a couple months ago, but I see what the scouts see now. My only knock on him right now outside of him having some trouble getting off blocks is him not giving 100% in plays, this is just observation, where he doesn't feel he's in position to make a play. If we are to draft him, you hustle from whistle to whistle under Marinelli and I'm sure he will drill that into Jack's head.

 

[Stash]

There's many more arguments against drafting a QB especially when you examine the Cowboys situation. First off no one seems to be head over heels for any of the QBs in this draft.

We'll start with the first time you put your foot in your mouth. No one seems to be head over heels? Is that why both guys are slated to be drafted in the top 10? And one or the other going at #2? Because "nobody's head over heels"?

The fact is that the only reason one or both of them won't be gone by pick #2 is that Tennessee just drafted their starting quarterback last year. But I think that even you know that.

There's no Peyton Manning in this group.

Newsflash! And there never will be! So, since the guy's name isn't Peyton Manning you can't draft them, eh? More great "logic" and "facts". The fact is that Goff has put up bigger numbers in three years than Peyton Manning did in four! But that's likely yet another thing you didn't know.

0 for 2 just for starters.

 

[KJJ]

I expect Wentz or Goff will go to the Browns. If we aren't sold on the other then yes, my ideal scenario would be to trade down a few spots possibly to #7 with SF and gain at least an additional 2nd round pick.

But if we can't trade down I'd rather take the QB at 4, especially if the Cowboys are thinking about skipping QB at 4 but then taking a lower rated QB on day 2. That would be the worst case scenario for me.

Also, it's true neither of these top QB's are sure things. But then neither is Ramsey, Bosa, Jack or any of the other prospects. Also, I think Wentz and Goff are better prospects and their numbers are better than that of guys like Gabbert, Ponder, Locker and David Carr. They may not be Peyton, Luck or Newton but I think at worse they compare favorably to Matt Ryan, Flacco or even Bortles. And in Wentz' case possibly Rothlisberger. Neither may be a top 5 QB in the league but I don't think they will be busts like some of the guys you mentioned either. And it's not like Bosa is expected to be the next JJ Watts or Ramsey another Deion, Revis or if safety Polamula or Reed. I'd rather take a potential top 10 caliber QB than a decent defender with us then using a 2nd-4th rounder on a QB who at best may be a borderline starter/career backup.

No one in the draft is a sure thing Clowney was suppose to be a sure thing and he's been a bust for Houston. Khalil Mack has been a much better player than Clowney and he was taken 5th overall. Cleveland fell for the Manziel hype and passed on 2 QBs Bridgewater and Carr who've been much better. The entire draft is a roll of the dice you just never know what you'll end up with. There's been a number of great players taken after the top 10. JJ Watt is the best defensive player since Lawrence Taylor and he was drafted 11th overall. The list goes on and on of all the GREAT players taken after the top 10. Some of the greatest QBs to ever play the game were taken well after other QBs that went bust. You need some luck in the draft because ending up with a special player takes some luck. There's many players that were great in college that end up great as pros but a majority of these great college players never achieve the success at the NFL level that they had at the college level.

Luke Kuechly has been a fantastic LB for Carolina and the Cowboys passed him up for Morris Claiborne that's the draft! I never get excited about drafting a particular player because you have no idea how they're going to turn out until they hit an NFL field. There's a lot of variables that can cause a player to go bust from injuries, the lack of heart to being a poor fit in a system. Some college players can't handle adversity at the NFL level. They're use to having success and when they don't have the same success as a pro it can affect their confidence. I saw an very interesting interview a few years ago on 60 minutes with Tony Mandarich who was one of the biggest NFL busts in history. He was the highest rated player in the 89 draft that saw 4 of the first 5 players taken Troy Aikman, Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders and Derrick Thomas all end up in the HOF. In the interview Mandarich said he felt invincible entering the NFL due to all the hype he received from teams and scouts.

He said in one of his first preseason games as a rookie Kevin Green ran around him on back to back plays for sacks and it destroyed his confidence. He said he never once had something like that happen to him in college and he heard criticism for the first time. He said those 2 plays really affected him and was never the same after that. He was very candid in the interview even tearing up at times. One of the big problems with the draft is the way they make some of these players appear sure things. They roll out the red carpet for them making them feel like rock stars. They make them instant millionaires before they ever step on an NFL field. With all that pressure they have to produce and when they don't the B word starts coming up. These top picks can't fly under the radar they're expected to be instant stars and many can't handle the high expectations that are placed on them.

 

[Rogerthat12]

That INT he made in that game was sweet. It's one thing to sit in the middle of the field and spy like many LBs do and get a pick, but following a slot receiver down the field and snatching the ball out of the air? Really impressive stuff.

I wasn't entirely impressed with him when I first watched his clips a couple months ago, but I see what the scouts see now. My only knock on him right now outside of him having some trouble getting off blocks is him not giving 100% in plays, this is just observation, where he doesn't feel he's in position to make a play. If we are to draft him, you hustle from whistle to whistle under Marinelli and I'm sure he will drill that into Jack's head.

Jack is not perfect but like you said after watching more tape you see that the Bruins were taking advantage of his elite athleticism and were playing him all over the place accordingly, including RB.

I noticed last year he improved his blocking deconstruction, where not only his speed helped against taking on OL but his blocking ability became a strength.

He was blowing up OG's which was simply amazing!

My only knock on him is that he needs to spend time in the film room due to inexperience and needs to avoid being overly aggressive because he relies on that athleticism.