Jerry Jones says Cowboys will NOT draft QB with no. 4 pick *Super Hot Pants Mega Merge*

Stash

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Because you have not watched the tape, you apparently have no clue what they asked him to do, let's compare apples to oranges again and come up with meaningless statistics.

Closing your eyes real hard and avoiding watching the tape is not going to change the fact that Jack can do it all.

I watched plenty of him. And what I saw was a guy who was always lining up outside the hash marks and away from the ball. But oh, I missed that play where he lined up inside, so 'I'm wrong!' 'I didn't watch the tape!' 'That couple of plays qualifies!' And what I also did was look at the production numbers for a player that people were mentioning as a possible 4th overall draft pick. And I quickly moved on.

Jack played RB, S, Corner, Edge Rush and all three linebackers positions and moved around all the time, his statistics are based off 29 career games while being moved around on a regular basis, this will impact base statistics.

If you can not understand how that would impact base statistics then you are simply not being honest in an attempt to prove a point.

So being put in these different positions prevented him from being a playmaker?

If he played edge rusher well, where are the sacks? If he played safety, corner, or anywhere else, why aren't their better statistics there?

Ultimately it does not matter what you say because Jack is already a top 5 prospect in this draft, I guess everyone else fails to see what you see!

I hate to break this to you, but ultimately, it doesn't matter what any of us say.
 

mattjames2010

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I watched plenty of him. And what I saw was a guy who was always lining up outside the hash marks and away from the ball. But oh, I missed that play where he lined up inside, so 'I'm wrong!' 'I didn't watch the tape!' 'That couple of plays qualifies!' And what I also did was look at the production numbers for a player that people were mentioning as a possible 4th overall draft pick. And I quickly moved on.



So being put in these different positions prevented him from being a playmaker?

If he played edge rusher well, where are the sacks? If he played safety, corner, or anywhere else, why aren't their better statistics there?



I hate to break this to you, but ultimately, it doesn't matter what any of us say.

If you would actually watch some film on him instead of pretending you did, you'd know the reason his stats aren't "better" (I'm going to guess you are meaning pass deflections and INTs) is because he wasn't targeted much due to locking down the slot receiver. I just provided you a video and you'll see what happens when they targeted him, it didn't end well for the QB.
 

KJJ

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We'll start with the first time you put your foot in your mouth. No one seems to be head over heels? Is that why both guys are slated to be drafted in the top 10? And one or the other going at #2? Because "nobody's head over heels"?

The fact is that the only reason one or both of them won't be gone by pick #2 is that Tennessee just drafted their starting quarterback last year. But I think that even you know that.

Newsflash! And there never will be! So, since the guy's name isn't Peyton Manning you can't draft them, eh? More great "logic" and "facts". The fact is that Goff has put up bigger numbers in three years than Peyton Manning did in four! But that's likely yet another thing you didn't know.

0 for 2 just for starters.

The only one putting their foot in their mouth is you. The reason Goff and Wenz are slated to go in the top 10 is because of the need certain teams have for a franchise QB. Everyone should know that but apparently you don't. There's been a lot of QBs taken in the top 10 that had no business being top 10 picks because teams are desperate for a QB and have to roll the dice. If you don't have a QB you don't have much of a choice but to take the best one available and hope they turn out. More QBs have gone #1 overall than any other position because you can't win without a QB. It's desperation that causes these QBs to become such hot commodities as the draft approaches.

One good workout can propel a QB into the top 10 if a team is desperate for one. Now stop diverting and list all these things you claim I'm wrong about and provide some FACTS! You're the only one foolish enough to argue with me on this topic not even some of my detractors who love arguing with me will join in this because they know they'll end up cornered like you. Stop wasting time tap dancing and provide some FACTS that you think will prove me wrong. You've been challenged either accept it or keep dancing.
 

KJJ

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The fact is that Goff has put up bigger numbers in three years than Peyton Manning did in four! But that's likely yet another thing you didn't know.

0 for 2 just for starters.

Despite Goffs college numbers being better than Peyton Manning's college numbers he's not even the highest rated QB by some experts. No one is putting Goff on the same level as Peyton Manning not even close. You keep throwing up gopher balls and I keep knocking them out of the park. It's almost like you're looking for ways to make yourself look bad. The system a QB plays in plays a big part on how big their numbers are but apparently you didn't know that. There's a lot of college QBs that have put up bigger numbers in college than some great NFL QBs did during their college careers but never amounted to squat in the NFL. Your attempt at scoring points is missing the mark. lol
 

Rogerthat12

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I watched plenty of him. And what I saw was a guy who was always lining up outside the hash marks and away from the ball. But oh, I missed that play where he lined up inside, so 'I'm wrong!' 'I didn't watch the tape!' 'That couple of plays qualifies!' And what I also did was look at the production numbers for a player that people were mentioning as a possible 4th overall draft pick. And I quickly moved on.



So being put in these different positions prevented him from being a playmaker?

If he played edge rusher well, where are the sacks? If he played safety, corner, or anywhere else, why aren't their better statistics there?



I hate to break this to you, but ultimately, it doesn't matter what any of us say.

Again, you need to watch more game tape for evaluation purposes before saying what a player has done and can do accordingly, this stultified your entire argument.

Jack has 29 games to watch, get busy because he was moved around throught his overall body of work, they did so to take advantage of his athletic ability.

Further, just so you know, the scouts and coaches literally cheered when Jack was weighed in at 245 lbs at the combine because they know he can handle all the spots at this weight.

Statitics by their very nature are simply numbers, they need to be interpreted properly, in the case of Jack, you have to understand the player and how the given team chose to use him accordingly, context matters.

Jack was moved around all the time and played offense, so applying comparisons to players playing an exclusive position is poor in symmetrical comparative conception.

Jack is a play maker and probably would have been better served by the coaching staff to be left at a home base more often, that was Mora's argument to get him to stay one more year.

You are right on the last line but spending time watching the full body of work of a player allows for an informed perspective and how they will translate on the next level.

Speaking of statistics, Patrick Willis had 1 career interception and 1 fumble recovery with 2 forced fumbles after 3 years at Ole Miss, so I guess by your logic he should not have become a play maker at the next level..lol.
 
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Rogerthat12

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1 sack 4 INT's and 1 forced fumble - for his career! But hey! You stay in that film room! Maybe some more productivity will actually show up.

Partick Willis Ole Miss 3 year career, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery, 2 forced fumbles with not being moved around much or playing on offense.

Maybe if he had more college production he could have went to eight pro bowls instead of just seven...lol.

How did that translate to the NFL???
 

KingintheNorth

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Partick Willis Ole Miss 3 year career, 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery, 2 forced fumbles with not being moved around much or playing on offense.

Maybe if he had more college production he could have went to eight pro bowls instead of just seven...lol.

How did that translate to the NFL???

Uh oh.....
 

Rogerthat12

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1 sack 4 INT's and 1 forced fumble - for his career! But hey! You stay in that film room! Maybe some more productivity will actually show up.

Jack appears to be in good company especially considering moving him around and playing offense:

Jack 2 years, 3 games is right in there with all of these players.

Navorrow Bowman, Penn State 3 year career: 3 interceptions 1 forced fumble.

Ray Lewis, 2 Miami 2 year career: 4 interceptions.

Luke Kuechly Boston College 3 year career: 7 interceptions.

Patrick Willis Ole Miss 3 year career: 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery, 2 forced fumbles.

LOL :muttley::lmao2::lmao:
 

Stash

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The only one putting their foot in their mouth is you. The reason Goff and Wenz are slated to go in the top 10 is because of the need certain teams have for a franchise QB. Everyone should know that but apparently you don't. There's been a lot of QBs taken in the top 10 that had no business being top 10 picks because teams are desperate for a QB and have to roll the dice. If you don't have a QB you don't have much of a choice but to take the best one available and hope they turn out. More QBs have gone #1 overall than any other position because you can't win without a QB. It's desperation that causes these QBs to become such hot commodities as the draft approaches.

One good workout can propel a QB into the top 10 if a team is desperate for one. Now stop diverting and list all these things you claim I'm wrong about and provide some FACTS! You're the only one foolish enough to argue with me on this topic not even some of my detractors who love arguing with me will join in this because they know they'll end up cornered like you. Stop wasting time tap dancing and provide some FACTS that you think will prove me wrong. You've been challenged either accept it or keep dancing.

Fact - both quarterbacks will end up drafted in the top 10. Deny that. If not, you've lost already.
 

Stash

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Despite Goffs college numbers being better than Peyton Manning's college numbers he's not even the highest rated QB by some experts. No one is putting Goff on the same level as Peyton Manning not even close. You keep throwing up gopher balls and I keep knocking them out of the park. It's almost like you're looking for ways to make yourself look bad. The system a QB plays in plays a big part on how big their numbers are but apparently you didn't know that. There's a lot of college QBs that have put up bigger numbers in college than some great NFL QBs did during their college careers but never amounted to squat in the NFL. Your attempt at scoring points is missing the mark. lol

Fact - Goff put up better numbers in three years than Manning did in four.

But keep typing 100's of words to try to wiggle your way out of that too. Maybe the uninformed might not notice.
 

Stash

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Jack appears to be in good company especially considering moving him around and playing offense:

Jack 2 years, 3 games is right in there with all of these players.

Navorrow Bowman, Penn State 3 year career: 3 interceptions 1 forced fumble.

Ray Lewis, 2 Miami 2 year career: 4 interceptions.

Luke Kuechly Boston College 3 year career: 7 interceptions.

Patrick Willis Ole Miss 3 year career: 1 interception, 1 fumble recovery, 2 forced fumbles.

LOL :muttley::lmao2::lmao:

And how many of those players, as great as they turned out to be, were projections for the NFL, ultimately asked to play a different position? And how many of those guys were drafted with the #4 overall pick?

Myles Jack Solo Tackle Production vs NFL Linebackers

PlayerCollegiate Percentile Rank
Luke Kuechly 99.89
Ray Lewis 98.99
Patrick Willis 98.39
Lavonte David 97.99
Bobby Wagner 93.69
NaVorro Bowman 90.39
Derrick Johnson 81.08
Myles Jack 64.76
Ernie Sims 62.16
Geno Hayes 61.56
 

MichaelWinicki

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You just said you were taking off now here you are coming back because I got your panties all in a wad and you think you're embarrassing me??? lol I got news for you pal I'm going to keep tightening that wad until your eyes pop out.

I gotta say I like Stash...

But that made me laugh-out-loud!

One of the best lines I've read on here in a while... :D
 

Rogerthat12

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And how many of those players, as great as they turned out to be, were projections for the NFL, ultimately asked to play a different position? And how many of those guys were drafted with the #4 overall pick?

Myles Jack Solo Tackle Production vs NFL Linebackers

PlayerCollegiate Percentile Rank
Luke Kuechly 99.89
Ray Lewis 98.99
Patrick Willis 98.39
Lavonte David 97.99
Bobby Wagner 93.69
NaVorro Bowman 90.39
Derrick Johnson 81.08
Myles Jack 64.76
Ernie Sims 62.16
Geno Hayes 61.56

Your comparison was apples to oranges, however, when compared to play making ability according to your own standard, Jack compares well with their actual college production.

The question of drafting elite prospects in the top five is draft relative, in this particular draft Jack is considered a top 5 talent, this does not mean Jack has to go at #4 to Dallas but rather that he is a top 5 talent in this class.

This draft class is unique and unlike other drafts so players like Ramsey, Bosa and Jack are top prospects considering the talent available in the draft.

I personally want a QB, however, that does not change the fact that Jack is an elite prospect and part of the conversation in the top 5.

You have no idea what position Jack will play, it is up to the team that drafts him but his versatility allows for him to play any of them accordingly.

Afterall, he has played them all in college.

You are simply wrong yet again, I just demonstrated that Jack while being moved around on defense and playing offense had similar statistics as other elite linebackers in the NFL this fact undermines your entire production by statistic argument.
 
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TX Cowboy

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I don't believe he is blowing smoke! he's making a stand with Romo and preparing us for more years of
misery and failure, All because his arrogance and stupidity have superseded his ability to rationalize the
importance of the future which ensures more than just 1 title which he will never get
 

Stash

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Your comparison was apples to oranges, however, when compared to play making ability according to your own standard, Jack compares well with their actual college production.

And you cherry-picked the numbers you wanted while leaving out the others, tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. Talk about apples to oranges! Did you think nobody would notice?

You have no idea what position Jack will play, it is up to the team that drafts him but his versatility allows for him to play any of them accordingly.

Yeah, and neither do you, that's why it's a projection. But Dallas is the only team I care about, so feel free to tell me where he's going to play? And "accordingly" to who? You?

After all, he has played them all in college.
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. A couple of plays qualifies for you. Thank goodness for low standards...

You are simply wrong yet again, I just demonstrated that Jack while being moved around on defense and playing offense had similar statistics as other elite linebackers in the NFL this fact undermines your entire production by statistic argument.

Sure you did. And again, you cherry-picked your numbers, leaving out the ones that clearly showed that your guy wasn't the playmaker you're trying to make him out to be.

And again, I'll reiterate since you want to try to skip over it. Which of those other players were drafted at #4 overall, and which were then projected to be moved to another position?

Oh, and which of them were coming off of a significant knee injury too?
 

jnday

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We'll start with the first time you put your foot in your mouth. No one seems to be head over heels? Is that why both guys are slated to be drafted in the top 10? And one or the other going at #2? Because "nobody's head over heels"?

The fact is that the only reason one or both of them won't be gone by pick #2 is that Tennessee just drafted their starting quarterback last year. But I think that even you know that.

Newsflash! And there never will be! So, since the guy's name isn't Peyton Manning you can't draft them, eh? More great "logic" and "facts". The fact is that Goff has put up bigger numbers in three years than Peyton Manning did in four! But that's likely yet another thing you didn't know.

0 for 2 just for starters.

The one point that you missed Stash is that all these message board GMs don't know how teams have these QBs rated. Just because a few websites ron't rate these QBs as elite prospects, it doesn't mean that NFL teams don't think they are very good QBs. NFL teams are not going to leak that kind of info and these posters are just talking out their rear end if they say otherwise.
 

jnday

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Fact - Goff put up better numbers in three years than Manning did in four.

But keep typing 100's of words to try to wiggle your way out of that too. Maybe the uninformed might not notice.

But, but, but , but these QBs are are from s bad QB draft class. How can that be?
 

Rogerthat12

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And you cherry-picked the numbers you wanted while leaving out the others, tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. Talk about apples to oranges! Did you think nobody would notice?



Yeah, and neither do you, that's why it's a projection. But Dallas is the only team I care about, so feel free to tell me where he's going to play? And "accordingly" to who? You?

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. A couple of plays qualifies for you. Thank goodness for low standards...



Sure you did. And again, you cherry-picked your numbers, leaving out the ones that clearly showed that your guy wasn't the playmaker you're trying to make him out to be.

Being a play maker would obviously mean, interceptions, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries according to your own words.

Jack was in coverage most of the time therefore the other categories will not be of comparative value unless they too were in coverage as well most of the time.

And again, I'll reiterate since you want to try to skip over it. Which of those other players were drafted at #4 overall, and which were then projected to be moved to another position?

Oh, and which of them were coming off of a significant knee injury too?

Sorry but you cherry picked NFL numbers and are obviously emmbarrassed yet again for not comparing their actual college production in terms of play making ability, funny you failed to list these numbers.

Did you think no one would notice the other players college production?

Since Jack was mostly put in coverage the other statistics would be of little value, however, based on interceptions, fumble recoveries and forced fumbles he has the same production with one less year of college and while being moved around and playing offense.

You argued yourself that even while playing in coverage the numbers should be there and when compared to the others, playing one position, they are similar.

Again, the guy that fails to watch the game tape, declaring Jack had never played the mike because according to you, he never did so, so embarrassing.

You were wrong about Jack playing the mike, your production argument was reduced to absurdity and now all you have is projection.

Jack played all three positions throughout his career, get busy on the 29 games of tape because apparently sticking your head in the sand, refusing to watch tape allows you to think it was just a few plays...that is humiliating.

How do you get Jack is a projection as a linebacker? I only argued he can play the Mike, not that he must play the Mike on the next level.

There is absolutely zero projection as Jack being a linebacker, why is this hard for you to understand, no one is arguing that he must play the Mike, that is your overstatement, not mine.

Further, who says Jack must be picked at #4, this is another of your false creations, I simply stated that in this particular draft Jack is a top 5 talent and is worthy of consideration in the top five accordingly.

Why do you think all of the top evaluators and scouts have him rated that high in this draft?

Probably because unlike you, they actually looked at all of his game tape!

Jack has went through medicals at the combine with no issues and will be medically cleared for his pro day in two weeks, he has been lifting, running and training for some time, the knee is no longer an issue.
 
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Stash

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The one point that you missed Stash is that all these message board GMs don't know how teams have these QBs rated. Just because a few websites ron't rate these QBs as elite prospects, it doesn't mean that NFL teams don't think they are very good QBs. NFL teams are not going to leak that kind of info and these posters are just talking out their rear end if they say otherwise.

You factor in what teams are doing in this league, forget what they're saying.

What they are doing is giving $100 million contracts to guys like Kapernick, Dalyon, and Tannehill.

What they are doing is tagging Kirk Cousins for $19 million for one season!

What they are doing is paying San Bradford $18 million for one season!

Forget about where quarterbacks rank compared to other years, it means nothing! The position is only getting harder and more costly to fill. And seeing these contracts, there's no denying that.

And it's not a knock on other players to take the quarterback. Just because you say you prefer the quarterback doesn't mean you're saying these other guys can't play. But the fact is, that by virtue of the position and scarcity, the quarterbacks are markedly more valuable than the other positions.

What the rest of the league is doing bears this out. And no one can deny that.
 
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