This defense will surprise people

[AsthmaField]

I completely forgot about Cedric Thornton!

He is a huge addition on that DL. A really good player and is a far cry from Hayden.

 

[casmith07]

He is a huge addition on that DL. A really good player and is a far cry from Hayden.

But Idgit thinks we made no significant upgrades - lol.

 

[AsthmaField]

But Idgit thinks we made no significant upgrades - lol.

Really, I think he's just saying it could have been improved more by spending the first and second round picks on defensive players that can play this year.

Speaking for myself, I think that Elliott was the BPA by a decent shot and I'm glad the team took him... but I certainly understand the viewpoint that going defense 1 and 2 would have improved the defense even more.

 

[casmith07]

Really, I think he's just saying it could have been improved more by spending the first and second round picks on defensive players that can play this year.

Speaking for myself, I think that Elliott was the BPA by a decent shot and I'm glad the team took him... but I certainly understand the viewpoint that going defense 1 and 2 would have improved the defense even more.

I don't think it would have improved the TEAM enough to make us significantly better than we were before the draft.

Zeke Elliott, I believe, makes the team better overall. Big picture.

 

[jazzcat22]

It's surprising to me how many people think it was horrible in 2015.

I gotta question: Why did the Cowboys play Tampa Bay 2 times in 1990?

It was the way the rotation formula was set up at the time. Before the realignment to the 4 divisions in each conference.

 

[Idgit]

No, what's myopic is not taking a total talent approach to improving your football team. You're focused entirely on players that you've bandied about for two seasons now as being clearly on your ****list and are myopically focused on one side of the ball.

The Cowboys felt that the best player available was Ezekiel Elliott. Are you suggesting that as a general manager you would reach for need over BPA in the draft as your way of doing business?

Are you further suggesting that the return of Scandrick and additions like Benson Mayowa will do absolutely nothing for this defense in the way of improvement over last year's comparable players? Which, I might add, the defense is the ONLY reason we were within 1 score for the vast majority of our losses while the offense sputtered away anemically.

I'm of the belief that you do what you can as it presents itself to put your team in the best possible position to compete going forward based on examining what you have. We addressed needs within financial parameters by re-signing our own players that we liked, and then adding free agents that we liked as well, like Mayowa. The Cowboys always try to use free agency to plug gaps and to then go into the draft able to select the best player on the board at their selection since Jason Garrett took over as head coach.

What would you have done differently that would've made the team over the top better? Because I haven't seen in this thread where you have suggested any specific pieces or players -- its all just been general wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I'm not suggesting most of those things, no. You can go up and read my posts for what I actually suggested if you care to.

You're piling on the disparagement pretty thick, but I'll set that aside. As for what I'd have done differently, I hadn't mentioned it before because it's unrelated to the thread, but since you asked: before the draft I had Bosa, then Ramsey, then Elliott as my most likely picks, in that order. So I'd have gone Ramsey at #4 and not looked back. At #34, I'd have bundled that pick for Lynch even though that contradicts my position here. I'd have done that because QB is a position where I'd make an exception because I'm not, in fact, myopic at all. Failing that, I liked Dodd in the 2nd. When he went off the board there were still a ton of safer defensive players to choose from Xavien Howard, Ragland, Billings, and Bullard were all players we could have taken that were safer bets at positions of relative need.

 

[Idgit]

But Idgit thinks we made no significant upgrades - lol.

I never said that.

Really, I think he's just saying it could have been improved more by spending the first and second round picks on defensive players that can play this year.

Speaking for myself, I think that Elliott was the BPA by a decent shot and I'm glad the team took him... but I certainly understand the viewpoint that going defense 1 and 2 would have improved the defense even more.

That is what I said. And I think I was pretty clear about it, too.

For the record, I've said elsewhere that I think Elliott's going to be a great player for us, too. I just think we had the luxury of filling that spot with a lesser back and would have gotten very nearly the same results from the offense overall (not from the RB position, but overall). The OL gives us flexibility in that regard. I'd have used it to improve the talent on defense because we need more impact players on that side of the ball.

 

[LandryFan]

You lost me when you said Church was adequate. When was the last time you remember him making a play on a passed ball? He had a ball tip right to him in 2014 is what I remember. Dude just cannot drive on throws and it makes him an easy read.

Jones will help but Wilcox already capped the top pretty well as you say; my concerns is the soft spots up the hashes and between the S and the LB where we have been killed for years. Jones needs to start making plays on the ball too. Scandrick has notoriously bad hands of stone.

Is Scandrick another Roberto Duran in football pads? Hands of stone should make him widely feared. : )

 

[jazzcat22]

No way of knowing. It had a long way to go, no matter what.

It was dumb to neglect helping it this year in the first two rounds.

They helped it in the first round by selecting Elliot, as he helps the defense, though not an actual defensive player.
They neglected it in the 2nd round by selecting an injured player. I hope this works out though for the future, but it does not help now.
There was no defensive player there to take that helps right now as much as what Elliott helps...the entire team...
I will go as far to say there were no 2 defensive players combined in rounds 1 & 2 that could help as well. Help yes, make a huge difference, no.

 

[Verdict]

The running back depth chart is an interesting thing. I think you assume that with the 4th overall pick that Zeke is the starter from day one. Dunbar will probably start out on the PUP list and won't count against the roster limit so that probably makes him safe for at least the early season. His prior performance, and his salary seem to indicate that we like him enough to keep him around after he comes off of PUP as well.

Assuming that all of the running backs are healthy, You would think that Elliott is a lock, and that McFadden, Morris and Dunbar are fighting for two active roster spots. We don't usually go long at RB, but maybe this is the year we do it.

I think it would be very unusual to keep Elliott, Morris, McFadden. Dunbar AND a fullback, but maybe we decide that the running game is so important that we go that route. Interesting decisions to be made here.

If Dunbar starts out on PUP I think we will try to sneak one of our young running backs to the practice squad (possibly losing him in the process). and keep McFadden and Morris on the 53 to start the year. The injury situation might dictate if we keep Morris and McFadden for the year or if one of them has to go.

Also, if we sneak a young running back to the practice squad, and Dunbar comes off of pup, we may cut one of the Morris/McFadden duo. I am not sure if McFadden/Dunbar being on the roster week 1 will keep them around for the duration of the year due to their salary being guaranteed for the full year if they are on the roster on week 1.

 

[Verdict]

I know who we took in the later rounds. My point was we missed the opportunity to help the defense in the first, and we missed the opportunity to help the defense his year in the second. So that no matter how improved that unit may not may not be this season, it could have been better.

Well, that is certainly a reasonable theory, yet is also flawed. Who is to say that Collins and/or Tapper cannot outplay a player drafted in the first or second round? It happens all the time. Your theory sounds great, but in reality, no one really knows for sure.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

What you're really saying is you think the offense will be better.

 

[jazzcat22]

Just an observation I have my doubts about Scandrick, he seems to have lots of off field issues going on with his personal life and the number of people who can handle those kind of distractions are few and far between. I hope I am wrong but the writing's on the wall if people choose to look. Adding a injury to this mix makes me very nervous.
I do not think we are keeping any offensive coordinators up at night in the NFC east. IMO

Tend to agree about Scandrick. If he doesn't get his off the field distractions under control, it won't be good. Fans don't rag on him like they do others they want to whip on. Because the spawn of satan buddy Ryan, said he was the best player on D, and he made some plays. I like Scandrick, but I am still waiting for him to be that difference of a playmaker in the secondary.
Right now, I would like mo and Carr as the corners, and OScan in the slot. With Jones at FS, I think that can cover up some SS issues and be more productive.

Scandrick has off the field distractions, not issues, but distractions...why don't fans rag on him like others. Why don't the media either. If Dez had a girlfriend causing distractions, they would be all over it calling him a no good bum.

 

[Idgit]

Well, that is certainly a reasonable theory, yet is also flawed. Who is to say that Collins and/or Tapper cannot outplay a player drafted in the first or second round? It happens all the time. Your theory sounds great, but in reality, no one really knows for sure.

Hey, I'm not claiming I can predict the future. My theory rests on the probability that players picked 30 or 60 or 90 spots of other players can be assumed to play better than the players picked below them. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption to make in allocating draft resources. But sure, If our 6th rounders all turn out to be all-pro's then that's great for the Cowboys. I'd be very happy with that.

 

[Idgit]

They helped it in the first round by selecting Elliot, as he helps the defense, though not an actual defensive player.
They neglected it in the 2nd round by selecting an injured player. I hope this works out though for the future, but it does not help now.
There was no defensive player there to take that helps right now as much as what Elliott helps...the entire team...
I will go as far to say there were no 2 defensive players combined in rounds 1 & 2 that could help as well. Help yes, make a huge difference, no.

The problem with that argument is that we could have gotten similar RB impact from taking a player lower in the draft, and still stockpiled a defensive player at a position of need for the very near-term future (CB/S).

 

[CCBoy]

I never said that.



That is what I said. And I think I was pretty clear about it, too.

For the record, I've said elsewhere that I think Elliott's going to be a great player for us, too. I just think we had the luxury of filling that spot with a lesser back and would have gotten very nearly the same results from the offense overall (not from the RB position, but overall). The OL gives us flexibility in that regard. I'd have used it to improve the talent on defense because we need more impact players on that side of the ball.

Impact? What are Thornton, Mayowa, Irvin, Gregory, Lawrence, Lee, McClain, Scandrick, and Jones? Chopped liver when compared to possible first year player productions....?

 

[casmith07]

I never said that.



That is what I said. And I think I was pretty clear about it, too.

For the record, I've said elsewhere that I think Elliott's going to be a great player for us, too. I just think we had the luxury of filling that spot with a lesser back and would have gotten very nearly the same results from the offense overall (not from the RB position, but overall). The OL gives us flexibility in that regard. I'd have used it to improve the talent on defense because we need more impact players on that side of the ball.

Nope.

No matter how much the defense might or might not improve, we passed up significant chances to make it better.

That's what you said. Thanks for playing. You can have the last word.

 

[casmith07]

Impact? What are Thornton, Mayowa, Irvin, Gregory, Lawrence, Lee, McClain, Scandrick, and Jones? Chopped liver when compared to possible first year player productions....?

They're garbage, CCBoy! They're not even chopper liver! Just old liver left out on the table in the sun to rot.

 

[casmith07]

I'm not suggesting most of those things, no. You can go up and read my posts for what I actually suggested if you care to.

You're piling on the disparagement pretty thick, but I'll set that aside. As for what I'd have done differently, I hadn't mentioned it before because it's unrelated to the thread, but since you asked: before the draft I had Bosa, then Ramsey, then Elliott as my most likely picks, in that order. So I'd have gone Ramsey at #4 and not looked back. At #34, I'd have bundled that pick for Lynch even though that contradicts my position here. I'd have done that because QB is a position where I'd make an exception because I'm not, in fact, myopic at all. Failing that, I liked Dodd in the 2nd. When he went off the board there were still a ton of safer defensive players to choose from Xavien Howard, Ragland, Billings, and Bullard were all players we could have taken that were safer bets at positions of relative need.

It's not disparagement against you as a person, even though I don't like you one bit and I don't have any issue saying that here for everyone to see.

I am, however, disparaging your opinion because it's rooted in a failure to see the totality of the picture, and that much is not really up for debate, because I have "gone up and read your posts."

 

[jazzcat22]

The problem with that argument is that we could have gotten similar RB impact from taking a player lower in the draft, and still stockpiled a defensive player at a position of need for the very near-term future (CB/S).

Disagree with getting a similar RB...no one comes close to helping the team as to what Elliott does. Except maybe Henry in the 2nd, but still not as much.
Would you trust any of the remaining RB's in the draft to protect Romo on blocking assignments? I wouldn't.
And as proven over and over again, as Romo goes, so does the team for the most part.