Can The NFL Fans Do A No-Show One Week To Send a Message?

[Yakuza Rich]

Hard to take anyone seriously that tries to somehow on some level come up with an equivalency between peacefully protesting and doing a **** salute.

It's hard to take somebody seriously that the point completely flies over their head so they can make a feeble attempt to give their agenda a leg to stand on.





YR

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Because we respect our police force and comply when they pull us over. They aren't perfect. Demanding perfection from them is just as irrational as the cop was not allowing your friend to drive away with a warning. If they are in the wrong, it will roll to whom they are accountable.

There is a video with an officer asking a black man to reach in the car for his license and when he did the cop shot at him. If there are cases like with Mike Tomlin where the fire chief got angry and called him a racial slur, then there are cases where a cop in power would use his anger towards black people for police brutality.

 

[Sydla]

It's hard to take somebody seriously that the point completely flies over their head so they can make a feeble attempt to give their agenda a leg to stand on.





YR

The point didn't fly over my head. You just made a bizarre point.

You basically just said that just because there are no official rules doesn't mean there aren't "social norms" that would dictate how a person should act. You are making the case that just because there is no rule about what to do during the anthem, there are social behaviors and guidelines and norms that would essentially require that players stand at attention or the anthem.

And then as an example of this, you mentioned someone make a **** salute. There is no rule that says you can't make a **** salute but people would know how to act in the fact of that. Well of course they would. Nazism is roundly denounced worldwide. It was a vicious and brutal political movement.

But protesting to raise awareness doesn't even fit into same box as your example. There is no universal belief system that would dictate the proper reaction like there would be for someone making a **** salute. The country is basically split on whether they can or can't protest during the anthem. There is no established position. The two analogies aren't even in the same ball park. And yet, you unwittingly just tried to make some sort of equivalency between the two - that both acts run counter to a strong majority belief system. Except in terms of the protests, there is no majority. There is no real "norm". There is no widely held belief that you absolutely can't protest during the anthem.

How in the world can't you see the silliness here?

 

[JoeKing]

There is a video with an officer asking a black man to reach in the car for his license and when he did the cop shot at him. If there are cases like with Mike Tomlin where the fire chief got angry and called him a racial slur, then there are cases where a cop in power would use his anger towards black people for police brutality.

And that's not exactly what happen but people like you keep push a false narrative. The fire chief calling Mike Tomlin a racial slur is an isolated incident that got resolved. And we can't have a constructive conversation about police brutality if you continue to lump all your concerns into one blanket statement. Case by case examples please.

 

[dogunwo]

isolated incident that got resolved.

Him being fired does NOT resolve the issue.

 

[JoeKing]

Him being fired does NOT resolve the issue.

So you would have him flogged in public? What's good enough for you?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

YR, you seem to be stuck on what you believe/do not believe happened in those specific, high profile, situations. I am asking you to move past that. Just because you don't know of racism that happens in a lot of scenarios with cops, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

For the umpteenth time, I never said that racism doesn't happen. I never said there are not racist cops.

But institutional racism in law enforcement that is prevalent today?

I have, time and time again, listened to arguments of institutional racism with the police and I have successfully rebutted those claims time and time again.

Walter Scott was murdered by a terrible human being that was a cop. But the fact that the data shows the unjust killings of black people in the world are so minute and that a white criminal is more likely to be shot than a black criminal shows that there is individual racism in the police force, but it's not institutional.

Even with the latest case of the Pennsylvania police chief who, on his own Facebook page, called Mike Tomlin a racial slur...he was forced to re-sign within a week. The officer has no record of harassing or brutalizing or killing black people, but the mere fact that he called Tomlin a racial slur and he was deal with swiftly and severely is a case of an individual racist where the institution refused to accept his racism.

I was recently in the car with a buddy of mine and we got pulled over for expired tags. Coincidentally, we just left the DMV where he had his new plates issued to him. Even though he explained to the police officer that he had his clean tags and current registration sitting in my lap, the police officer's response was "You should have had them where they were supposed to be boy. You can clear it up on your court date." Unbelievable. He couldn't just let us get home to use tools to put the tag on. I can understand why he would think such behavior is racially motivated especially when he has white friends that get pulled over for far more egregious things and are told "just get it fixed as soon as you can so you don't keep getting pulled over"

Again, this stuff happens to white people all of the time.

One of my white friends was a big customer of Alpine stereo. So much so that the sales rep for Alpine came over to give him free stuff which include a giant decal to go on his back windshield.

After it was put on he was pulled over because the decal didn't meet whatever code and he was given a ticket. The next day he still had not removed the decal and the same cop pulled him over and impounded his car.

Like I posted earlier, the majority of the times I've ever been pulled over by police it was basically either to check up and see if I was driving while intoxicated by making up some nonsense or some ticky-tack penalty like an expired tag, broken taillight, etc.




YR

 

[dogunwo]

So you would have him flogged in public? What's good enough for you?

I am not even sure firing him was the right thing to do. I just said firing didn't resolve the issue. I would have preferred public apology and counseling. If he really is a racist, that would probably hurt him more than just a firing.

 

[blindzebra]

And thats how many of those fans probably feel about kneeling when the anthem and flag is displayed ........ while making millions.

This is what makes me question the motives of people over the protest, because that really sounds like,"Be grateful that we allow you to make millions, now go stay in your place N-word."

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

And that's not exactly what happen but people like you keep push a false narrative. The fire chief calling Mike Tomlin a racial slur is an isolated incident that got resolved. And we can't have a constructive conversation about police brutality if you continue to lump all your concerns into one blanket statement. Case by case examples please.

I don't know if I could post the video here, but when people just say all a person has to do with is comply with police. I'm talking about a case in South Carolina where the cop asked the man to reach for his license and when the man did, the cop shot at him. So even in the case where the man did what the cop asked him to do he still got shot at/

The fire chief is not so isolated, if there are bunch of people in the position of the police force that feel the same way. And just like Tomlin keeping the Steelers in the locker set off the racism within the fire chief. Then a black man will set off the anger of police officer's who hold racism within them. Just like the case of another fire fighter saying that the life of one dog is more valuable than the life of a million black people (He too used racial slurs).

If you have cases like these where fire fighters have expressed racism, then it's not far fetched to believe that some men on the police force hold onto the same racist thoughts/feelings.

 

[JoeKing]

I am not even sure firing him was the right thing to do. I just said firing didn't resolve the issue. I would have preferred public apology and counseling. If he really is a racist, that would probably hurt him more than just a firing.

I would imagine being a racist in this day in time is it's own curse. We should not "thought police" it away from individuals, it is their right to think as they choose. The German ****'s "thought policed" their ideology by sending people to camp for reprogramming. Sounds like you would have racist reprogrammed because their thoughts on race differ from yours and mine.

 

[Sydla]

This is what makes me question the motives of people over the protest, because that really sounds like,"Be grateful that we allow you to make millions, now go stay in your place N-word."

It's bizarre thinking. I don't understand why the fact they make a lot of money somehow means they can't protest in the peaceful manner they have.

 

[dogunwo]

I would imagine being a racist in this day in time is it's own curse. We should not "thought police" it away from individuals, it is their right to think as they choose. The German ****'s "thought policed" their ideology by sending people to camp for reprogramming. Sounds like you would have racist reprogrammed because their thoughts on race differ from yours and mine.

Is this a serious post? If it is, I am done. We good.

 

[Sydla]

I would imagine being a racist in this day in time is it's own curse. We should not "thought police" it away from individuals, it is their right to think as they choose. The German ****'s "thought policed" their ideology by sending people to camp for reprogramming. Sounds like you would have racist reprogrammed because their thoughts on race differ from yours and mine.

The problem is people act on their thoughts.

The problem is that some people see a black person in a white neighborhood and immediately think he has to be a criminal.

That's a real problem and what these protests are about. That there is still a culture in this country that believes blacks are below whites and it festers up in police actions, etc. at times. That's the type of thinking and acting people are trying to change.

And maybe they never will be able to but how can you fault anyone for wanting to try to change that type of thinking and acting? How can one be bitter that they are doing something peacefully that is allowed by the Constitution of the United States? How can one be upset that when you actually sit down and think about it, whether these players stand or sit, doesn't change your life one bit?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The point didn't fly over my head. You just made a bizarre point.

You basically just said that just because there are no official rules doesn't mean there aren't "social norms" that would dictate how a person should act. You are making the case that just because there is no rule about what to do during the anthem, there are social behaviors and guidelines and norms that would essentially require that players stand at attention or the anthem.

And then as an example of this, you mentioned someone make a **** salute. There is no rule that says you can't make a **** salute but people would know how to act in the fact of that. Well of course they would. Nazism is roundly denounced worldwide. It was a vicious and brutal political movement.

But protesting to raise awareness doesn't even fit into same box as your example. There is no universal belief system that would dictate the proper reaction like there would be for someone making a **** salute. The country is basically split on whether they can or can't protest during the anthem. There is no established position. The two analogies aren't even in the same ball park. And yet, you unwittingly just tried to make some sort of equivalency between the two - that both acts run counter to a strong majority belief system. Except in terms of the protests, there is no majority. There is no real "norm". There is no widely held belief that you absolutely can't protest during the anthem.

How in the world can't you see the silliness here?

What you consider 'social norms' somebody may not consider to be the social norm. Particularly when the majority of people have not found protesting the flag to be a social norm.

The point being is that the NFL is filled with double standards and much of our society is as well. We scream free speech when it suits us, but then claim silly things like 'social norms' when it doesn't.

When the White Nationalists marched in Charlottesville the night prior to the day of violence, they did so peacefully. But, I still rejected their protest in part due to the divisiveness of their beliefs and they were against our country and what it stood for.

Did they have the right to peacefully protest?

Sure.

But I have a disdain for their protest.

Here we have players that are perfectly allowed to protest. Nobody is stopping them. There have been no arrests nor suspensions or fines.

But, some think we should not hold them with ill repute despite the divisiveness of their beliefs and how they are protesting what the country stands for and by proxy they are protesting the country.

Sorry, but I won't let people have it both ways just because they have an argument attached to it that is moral.



YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I am not even sure firing him was the right thing to do. I just said firing didn't resolve the issue. I would have preferred public apology and counseling. If he really is a racist, that would probably hurt him more than just a firing.

So it's not really about actually fixing a problem for you, it's about making him pay the price for being racist.




YR

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

It's bizarre thinking. I don't understand why the fact they make a lot of money somehow means they can't protest in the peaceful manner they have.

Well, I have actually seen people say that black people should be grateful for slavery in America, because otherwise African Americans would all be living in Africa today.

Tomlin making millions as a coach didn't prevent a racial slur from being used against him. Players making millions doesn't mean that they aren't affected when there are the KKK/****'s holding recent rallies.

 

[Sydla]

What you consider 'social norms' somebody may not consider to be the social norm. Particularly when the majority of people have not found protesting the flag to be a social norm.

The point being is that the NFL is filled with double standards and much of our society is as well. We scream free speech when it suits us, but then claim silly things like 'social norms' when it doesn't.

When the White Nationalists marched in Charlottesville the night prior to the day of violence, they did so peacefully. But, I still rejected their protest in part due to the divisiveness of their beliefs and they were against our country and what it stood for.

Did they have the right to peacefully protest?

Sure.

But I have a disdain for their protest.

Here we have players that are perfectly allowed to protest. Nobody is stopping them. There have been no arrests nor suspensions or fines.

But, some think we should not hold them with ill repute despite the divisiveness of their beliefs and how they are protesting what the country stands for and by proxy they are protesting the country.

Sorry, but I won't let people have it both ways just because they have an argument attached to it that is moral.



YR

You just made my point for me. You are right. There are some who believe it's right, some who believe it's not.

But pretty much everyone believes Nazism is wrong. So yes, there is a clear cut guideline that dictates how we should react to Nazism even though there is no rule dictating whether or not one can make a **** salute. However, there is no clear cut guidance here on the NFL protests. So you can't sit there and try to use both as similar examples. They aren't. Not even close.

And you just did it again............ you just made a dumb equivalency now comparing the protests here to the White Supremacists.

This isn't about whether what they do is legal or not. Because it's well established that the protests in Charlottesville and in NFL stadiums is legal. The issue is the belief system behind the people protesting. What is the belief system or the injustice behind these groups? For the NFL players, it's what they believe is some existing racial injustice in this country. And frankly, unless you are blind, the reality is that there is still some racial injustice in this country where blacks are treated worse than whites. That's just a fact of life.

What's the belief system behind the White Supremacists protests? That whites are superior to blacks and as such, blacks (and Jewish people) should take a back seat and subservient role to whites in this country. That's a view that is widely denounced by almost all Americans.

So again, how can you sit there are try to make an analogy out of two ridiculously different movements? One is a protest to bring awareness to a real problem facing this country. Another is a protest born out of a desire to perpetuate a belief system that we fought a civil war and later a world war over. And yet, in your eyes, there is somehow an analogy there?

 

[YosemiteSam]

Can we organize this with all the other upset fans of how we are sick and tired of this kneel,hide in the tunnels,fist in the air crap? Do your stupid protest and game to an empty stadium.I believe the NFL will get the message then.

Personally I don't give a damn whether they kneel or stand. Not sure why you are so bent out of shape about it. It doesn't affect you at all unless you allow it to.

So, stop allowing others actions that have no barring on your life affect you. Let it go.

 

[JoeKing]

I don't know if I could post the video here, but when people just say all a person has to do with is comply with police. I'm talking about a case in South Carolina where the cop asked the man to reach for his license and when the man did, the cop shot at him. So even in the case where the man did what the cop asked him to do he still got shot at/

I am aware of the case and I'm telling you that's not exactly what happen despite you insisting so. The cop also told the man to stop because he thought he saw a gun. The man black gentleman failed to comply with the cops command and so he thought the guy was drawing out the gun that he already thought he saw.

The fire chief is not so isolated, if there are bunch of people in the position of the police force that feel the same way. And just like Tomlin keeping the Steelers in the locker set off the racism within the fire chief. Then a black man will set off the anger of police officer's who hold racism within them. Just like the case of another fire fighter saying that the life of one dog is more valuable than the life of a million black people (He too used racial slurs).

It most certainly is an isolated incident yet you keep attempting to make blanket statements which makes it hard for us to have a conversation. I've asked you to give case by case examples so we can fairly discuss the matter. When you say, "bunch of people in the position of the police force", it's not helpful to our conversation. Which people? Have you got names? You seem to be unwilling to have an honest conversation.

If you have cases like these where fire fighters have expressed racism, then it's not far fetched to believe that some men on the police force hold onto the same racist thoughts/feelings.

You are making assumption that only exasperate the conversation? Have you not ever worked for someone that had a ideology different than yours? It doesn't make you accountable to their believes and you wouldn't like people accusing you of supporting their beliefs. So stop making those assumptions about others.