LaTunaNostra said:
Well TH, you always manage to sound upset. Upset, hurt, victimized and martyred.
Funny, that is exactly how a lot of posters who don't like my opinions sound to me too. They shout "apples and oranges" about a comparison I make, then go off on a tangent that is further from the point, and hate it if I try to bring the discussion back. I was talking about how we get excited about rookie prospects and somehow excitement over a veteran got mixed in. I'd say apples and oranges but when that veteran was signed I was excited. This is the time of year that we get excited about the new presents under the NFL Christmas tree, i.e. our new rookies.
You showed nothing of the kind. Every fan from pre draft on has players he or she is particularly keen on, and some fans are prone to hyping. Some never hype anyone. I'd wager MOST fans fall into my category on Henson, very excited about his potential, but at the same time recognizing the fact he will probably not see much active duty this year, and if he does, it won't be a good sign for the team's overall fortunes. In fact, I would not blame any fan who felt he hoped he didn't see Drew on the field at all this year except in mop up duty. I'd hardly call that disloyal to Henson. I'd call that gosh darn common sense. This team went to the playoffs last year. Few are willing to tank the season to prepare Henson faster. Especially after what throwing young QBs out there too fast has resulted in in the recent past.
I "showed nothing of the kind?" I guess thanking Jimz31, Bluefin, and you for the interesting debates is not showing how much I was enjoying it. Okay I guess.
All I did was point out that we as fans get amped up about rookies with potential like Williams, Newman, etc. So much so that we even talk about them in relation to the greats of all time. I pointed out that other team's fans do this too. I then pointed out that when talking about Henson the names Leaf and Hutchinson are immediately thrown out by the folks who think doubting Q equals an attack. Apparently it struck a nerve or guilt.
Altho I know you have said you feel Carter earned the starting job last year, we both know he has to keep earning it. But this summer he will be earning it by keeping Vinnie at bay, not Drew. That's next summer's challenge for Q. One thing Dallas fans can take comfort in is the head coach will show no favoritism. Just as Bill played the best option at QB last year, so will he this year. If Henson can bypass Carter, Testaverde, and Romo, he will start. But it is very very unlikely from the scout team he is able to do that, and that's why many of us are not getting ourselves in a tizzy about him this year. Tho of course it will be fun to see him on the field in preseason. Let him throw a few intermediate passes to Terry where he doesn't have to reach behind him for the ball, and you will see how fast I start hyping. The hype will come, and it may even be vigorous to satisfy YOU, TH.
I know the Henson hype is coming LTN. I've never said it isn't. I just find it humorous that Roy is the next Lott, T-New is the next Deion, but Henson is the next Hutchinson: all because of baseball. I find that rather interesting.
This thread had a dubious intent in your mind as you've said. Surely you can see that I have not even discussed things asked under the original intent and premise of this thread and when I did directly answer that premise I was not hateful or under handed.
Someone else threw something out there that I found interesting. Last year we made the playoffs with a QB who threw 17 TDs and 21 INTs, 3300+ yards passing in an offense that scored 289 points.
There is a common lament that if we start Drew Henson it is tanking the season. Last year in 13 games started Byron Leftwich threw 14 TDs, 16 INTs, threw for 2800+ yards passing and led an offense that scored 276 points. As a true rookie.
Pretty similar huh? That for a team that was pretty poor. Call me crazy but Leftwich has that certain "IT." I think if he had been our QB we'd have still made the playoffs. I'd still credit the defense and the coaching.
Maybe I'm crazy but if those stats can lead us to the playoffs one year, why not another? Why is it suddenly gloomy? Where did the optimism go?
I personally think if Henson wins the job he will be better than what was good enough in 2003. That just means to me the team has improved. I don't see the harm in wanting that.
Many of us have never even seen Drew play, just have the opinions of other to go on. I chose a rather hyped opinion (that of my brother) to frame the parameters of my perspective. I am already OVER hyping Henson by attributing to him "franchise" potential. The danger for this boy, imho, is going to just that over hype. You can call it "hypocritial" if you like, or read it as a tactic to keep the positive regard down, but it isn't. It's experience of watching over and over how a fanbase hoisted a player on a pedestal, and then in mob like fashion caved it to the ground. When a kid this limited in experience with a lot of raw talent gets discussed, the danger is indeed setting him up for stormy times.
What I call hypocritical is the extreme opposite feelings and judgments. For example, Carter has had only 31 games to prove himself, but Hutchinson is washed up after only having 9 games. A common theme.
Carter was good enough to lead us to 10 wins and the playoffs, but Hambrick wasn't. Another common theme.
You see from where I sit the whole offense had limitations that held us back, not just Hambrick.
We should not "attack" Cowboys players, but then it is fine to say Larry Allen is a "Fat A**," or call him Joey "Gallowaste," or say Hambrick tripped over blades of grass. A common occurence here.
You see, I don't consider any of those things "attacking" Cowboys players. I think those things express doubts. What exactly is wrong with having doubts?
When an offense only scores 289 points I am going to be more concerned than giddy. I think that is only natural.
I categorically disagree with the contention there are only two possiblities for Drew's future. "Elite" impact QB or bust. In Bill's system, there is much for potential for a Phil Simms type career. Henson could become the ultimate bus driver. He could become a moderately successful starter, or a much valued backup. The full range of possibilities are as open to him as to any other QB.
Fair enough. I submit that is probably in your eyes, and not necessarily everyone else's.
However, if the debate is framed in such a way that a kid with his amount of experience, away from the game for several years, can work his way up to the starter position this year via an aerial display of Favre like fireworks and mature game management, a feeling of disappointment will set up around him. The bar will get set so high every missed receiver will be a dagger, and each misread blitz become a fatal flaw. Drew, talented as he may be, is a developmental prospect. In fairness to him, that should be kept in mind. He is not SuperRook and expecting him to be both dampens the legitimate hype, and works to the advantage of his detractors.
Hmm. As the foremost accused supporter of Henson I don't remember comparing him to Favre. I have said I think he will show in Training Camp that overall he is the best QB on the roster. I did not think that translated to Favre.
The judgments of any QB for several years until one simply shines are going to be extremely harsh by one segment of the fans or the other. That is just the truth. The two sides have rubbed each other's noses in it for so long now, that it isn't likely to be forgotten.
If Drew has a stellar game some yahoo will bash Q. That's not fair but it is going to happen. If he has a poor game some other yahoo will bash him. That's not fair either. It's the world we've created by being so overly sensitive to other people's opinions. Political correctness stinks. It's the world we've created though. I know for a fact one side feels like the other wants them censored. If the shoe is on the other foot you can bet that sentiment will be returned in kind.
I can wait to see Drew, secure in the knowledge of Tuna's past. The minute, nay, the SECOND, Drew Henson becomes the best option at QB, he will be on that field.
I understand that. I have no problem with that. My issue is why is he the next Leaf or Hutchinson?
Some kids can wait for Christmas to unwrap those gifts. Others are searching every inch of the house from Thanksgiving on trying to find where daddy and mommy hid them. Doesn't mean the kids with some self discipline crave the presents any less. They just understand there's a time and place for everything. From where we sit right now, the FO/CS had decided the time for Henson is 2005 at the earliest and his place this season is to prepare, as it was for so many inexperienced QBs before him. He would have to be godlike to take the starting job from his place on the depth chart. Talented as I believe he is, I'm not attributing him with such qualities. Yet.
I admit, I am guilty of trying to figure out my presents in advance. That doesn't mean a lack of self discipline. That means an overly stimulated curiosity.
I appreciate your desire to see Henson asap, and I hope you fight the good fight by hyping him to high heavens. Like wise those who hype Quincy. But I also respect the wisdom of Bill Parcells. Your dog in the race, you have said often, is Henson. Mine is Tuna. TUNA is the man who is going to take us there, and whatever dog he runs will be the best option. The purebred greyhound, or the mangy mutt.
I don't think I hype him at all. That is just perception. I say I think he will be better than anyone else on the roster. To me that is not hype because I don't think the other QBs on the roster are very good. If it is hype to others for me to say that I can live with it.
Unlike that minority of fans who do sometimes at least appear to be more about the player than the team, (tho I sure don't have the gall to accuse anyone of that, who the hell am I to question anyone's team loyalty), he will not put one player above the team. Not Carter and not Henson. Not his ex-Jet Vinnie either.
I agree, there is a minority of fans like that, and I do not throw out those accusations. I do not think Tuna will favor a player. That is why I simply say if Drew is clearly the best go ahead and play him.
I wish you had too. I also wish I had refrained from jumping in on a thread that was so intentionally created to inflame, and am signing off on it now. Tho I admit seeing one of the most consistent flamers on Cowboys boards give lectures on morality provides no small amusement.
Later
I think in any thread there can be good and bad discussions. I had a great one with Jimz31. Loved it. I felt you and Bluefin made some great points that I enjoyed. I don't sign off on threads. I do on occasion sign off on responses to people who aren't part of the good discussions in that thread. I refuse to have to be above it all. If I can have a good discussion in a "bad" thread why not take advantage of it?
If you haven't noticed I don't begin any response in a thread with a judgment or put down unless it is in a playful manner to someone I consider a friend. Even then it can be mistaken. Yeagermeister insults me all the time. I never take those things personally. Not once, not ever. I find it fun to be able to have my friends josh me a bit. I don't use the words "hater" or "apologist" unless making a point that extremists drive those perceptions. I never go into a thread looking for it to disintegrate into insults only. I do try to have fun, but for the most part I do not get upset. Ever. In only one thread can I recall actually being miffed. After I said something real nice about Q I got accused of racism. That did upset me.
I don't know what tone you or others get from my posts but trust me, if I was upset people would know it. I am not now nor have I ever been a victim. I sent you the story about what happened to me in Mexico. Does that sound to you like I would let something like a disagreement on opinions upset me?
No, what I am guilty of is digging my feet in and refusing to budge. I continue to toss out good natured barbs at some people who do the same to me. Qcard for instance. I've had a lot of fun with his insinuations and I've tossed back his thinking he could read my mind and determine my satisfaction level. If he were to PM me and tell me those jokes were upsetting him I would stop them. I don't mind his insinuations. I find them to be way off base and thus really funny.
Upset? Naw. Haven't got time for it.
