3rd for Quincy?

[Charles]

.
Someone else threw something out there that I found interesting. Last year we made the playoffs with a QB who threw 17 TDs and 21 INTs, 3300+ yards passing in an offense that scored 289 points.

There is a common lament that if we start Drew Henson it is tanking the season. Last year in 13 games started Byron Leftwich threw 14 TDs, 16 INTs, threw for 2800+ yards passing and led an offense that scored 276 points. As a true rookie.

Pretty similar huh? That for a team that was pretty poor. Call me crazy but Leftwich has that certain "IT." I think if he had been our QB we'd have still made the playoffs. I'd still credit the defense and the coaching.

Maybe I'm crazy but if those stats can lead us to the playoffs one year, why not another? Why is it suddenly gloomy? Where did the optimism go?

I personally think if Henson wins the job he will be better than what was good enough in 2003. That just means to me the team has improved. I don't see the harm in wanting that.

Hos,

Statements like these always look glossy on the surface, but when really broken down...........

Yep..... Fred Taylor was just along for the ride. If Quincy Carter had 1572 rushings yards at a 4.6 AVG I wonder if some would say he had "IT".

Fred Taylor had 7 of his 8 100 yard games in the 2nd half of the season.

I have watched Leftwich since he was in elementary school. IMHO he became the best pure passer in the NFL the sec he was drafted, but without the 5th ranked Running attack that "IT" is as about as valuable as Iraqi currency.

I'd like to see Leftiwch or Henson handing off to Troy Hambrick behind last year offensive line.

I will were the Apologist cap if 1572 yards @ a 4.6 AVG is considered an EXCUSE.

"IT" will never win a SuperBowl. Dan Marino will attest. So would Barry Sanders.

 

[Hostile]

Hey Hos,

What did you go see last night?

Rush at the Cricket Pavillion in Phoenix. It was their 30th Anniversary and we had backstage passes. Met Alex and Geddy. Neil does not do that stuff. No pictures unfortunately as the Security made me throw away the batteries in my digital camera.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Yuck. Now I remember why I haven't posted in a QB thead in a long time.

My one question is to the people who assume we'd be "throwing away the season" by playing Henson... Was Brian Billick throwing away the Ravens' season last year by starting Kyle Boller? Did he "lose the team" by starting a raw rookie? After all, he could have found some veteran to hold the fort for a year.

Just because Carson Palmer never got off the bench his entire rookie year doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. In fact, if he gets off to a terrible start and comes on at the end, but the Bengals are out of it by the time he gets the hang of things, they may well regret not getting him some experience last year.

 

[Hostile]

Hos,

Statements like these always look glossy on the surface, but when really broken down...........

Yep..... Fred Taylor was just along for the ride. If Quincy Carter had 1572 rushings yards at a 4.6 AVG I wonder if some would say he had "IT".

Fred Taylor had 7 of his 8 100 yard games in the 2nd half of the season.

I have watched Leftwich since he was in elementary school. IMHO he became the best pure passer in the NFL the sec he was drafted, but without the 5th ranked Running attack that "IT" is as about as valuable as Iraqi currency.

I'd like to see Leftiwch or Henson handing off to Troy Hambrick behind last year offensive line.

I will were the Apologist cap if 1572 yards @ a 4.6 AVG is considered an EXCUSE.

"IT" will never win a SuperBowl. Dan Marino will attest. So would Barry Sanders.

Well, then let's really break them down.

I said Jacksonville had a poor offense and 276 points supports that claim. If I say 289 for Dallas is poor I need to be consistent. So far I am.

I compared the QBs stats and they were pretty favorable to each other and one was a true rookie playing for a worse team. Still pretty consistent for me.

Football, I am constantly reminded is a team sport. Jacksonville rushed for 2073 yards in 2003, Dallas for 1999. As a team 4.3 yards per cary by J-ville and 3.9 for Dallas. J-ville certainly had an advantage there but I'd hardly call it leaps and bounds.

If we're going to add outside factors other than QBs let's add defenses too shall we? Dallas allowed 260 points, Jacksonville allowed 331 points. I tend to think that kind of defensive help can assist a QB.

I wonder if Parcells coaching helped? I bet it did.

I'd like to see Leftwich behind our line with our RBs too, and with our defense and coaching to benefit him. I think he would have shown more than he did with Jacksonville. He's going to be good.

I never said "IT" guaranteed anything. Did I?

 

[Hostile]

The degree of respect one's opinion is held by the vast majority of posters is how comments are accepted. How the replies are meted out.

I see posters who are praised for their sound thinking and wisdom.

I see others who are shot down because they are argumentative, petulant, and obstinate.

And yet each poster makes their point and defends their ideas from others in the very same manner.

Education does not make one right. It probably gives one an advantage in a discussion because of experience in passionately expressing a point-of-view. But BS masked in words learned in the hallowed halls of higher education is still BS.

Maybe everyone should take a giant step back from this and realize this thread was merely a hypothetical and nothing more.

I am usually one of the first ones to get on my high horse, but there are some posts in this thread that make me look like a piker.

Football will be back in less than two weeks for all of us. Maybe we should keep our eye on the ball.

Very nicely stated TD. I couldn't agree more. Hey, when were you banned and what was my defense of you?

I did a good job and am glad of it.

I just don't remember it.

 

[Charles]

Yuck. Now I remember why I haven't posted in a QB thead in a long time.

My one question is to the people who assume we'd be "throwing away the season" by playing Henson... Was Brian Billick throwing away the Ravens' season last year by starting Kyle Boller? Did he "lose the team" by starting a raw rookie? After all, he could have found some veteran to hold the fort for a year.

hang of things, they may well regret not getting him some experience last year.

If Boller is a raw rookie then that would make Henson .......................

If Billick had so much confidence in his raw rookie (who is potentially the most talentted QB on the team) why did he start Anthony wright down the stretch during a play-off run in which the Ravens went 5-2.

Again these comparison look glossy on the surface but...........

 

[Hostile]

If Boller is a raw rookie then that would make Henson .......................

If Billick had so much confidence in his raw rookie (who is potentially the most talentted QB on the team) why did he start Anthony wright down the stretch during a play-off run in which the Ravens went 5-2.

Again these comparison look glossy on the surface but...........

Boller got hurt. We gonna "gloss" over that?

 

[Maikeru-sama]

QCard, I believe Boller got hurt. I dont remember who it was against, but the game was on ESPN.

- Mike G.

 

[Charles]

Football, I am constantly reminded is a team sport. Jacksonville rushed for 2073 yards in 2003, Dallas for 1999. As a team 4.3 yards per cary by J-ville and 3.9 for Dallas. J-ville certainly had an advantage there but I'd hardly call it leaps and bounds.

If we're going to add outside factors other than QBs let's add defenses too shall we. Dallas allowed 260 points, Jacksonville allowed 331 points. I tend to think that kind of defensive help can assist a QB.

I'd like to see Leftwich behind our line with our RBs too. I think he would have shown more than he did with jacksonville. he's going to be good.

I never said "IT" guaranteed anything. Did I?

If anyone here doesn't think having Fred Taylor in the back field is leaps and bounds more favorable/advantageuos than having Troy Hambrick please raise your hands. It appears you are arguing just to argue. You don't have point.

Of course we are going to add outside factors because everthing done on the grid iron affects the team.

I watched Leftwich play at every level. His High School HD Woodson nickame the Body snatchers have had the best Running attack in the DC area in the past 20 - 30 years. Marshall by far had the most talented tems in the conference. Leftwich without a running game is just another pretty passer.

Without the threat of Fred Taylor in the backfield, Leftwich would have been passing into much worse situations. Come coach Hos even you know thats simple logic. Look at what happened to Leftwich when the Patriots shut down Taylor. "IT" looked like spit.

Trust me Hos, you don't want to see Leftwich behind 2001, 2002, 2003 DallasCowboys O-line with Troy Hambrick in the backfiled. You already did...see Chad Hutchinson. If Chad had Fred Taylor and a consistent good O-line he'd show off "IT" and post similar numbers to Leftwich.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

If Boller is a raw rookie then that would make Henson .......................

If Billick had so much confidence in his raw rookie (who is potentially the most talentted QB on the team) why did he start Anthony wright down the stretch during a play-off run in which the Ravens went 5-2.

Again these comparison look glossy on the surface but...........

To answer your question, he started Wright because Boller tore his quad and couldn't play any more.

I'm not saying Henson will or should play at all. I expect, like most people, that Quincy will start and play unless Vinny really beats him soundly. My point was just that there's more ways than one to skin a cat, and it's not a unanimous slam-dunk decision that rookie QBs HAVE to sit for a year -- even for good, solid teams like Baltimore.

 

[Hostile]

If anyone here doesn't think having Fred Taylor in the back field is leaps and bounds more favorable/advantageuos than having Troy Hambrick please raise your hands. It appears you are arguing just to argue. You don't have point.

If anyone here doesn't think having Parcells and a top notch defense doesn't favor Dallas by leaps and bounds raise your hands. I have a point, you just don't like it.

Of course we are going to add outside factors because everthing done on the grid iron affects the team.

So, let's add them all not just a select one. Do you really think Leftwich will flop? I like the kid.

I watched Leftwich play at every level. His High School HD Woodson nickame the Body snatchers have had the best Running attack in the DC area in the past 20 - 30 years. Marshall by far had the most talented tems in the conference. Leftwich without a running game is just another pretty passer.

I disagree with this, but have no desire to debate it.

Without the threat of Fred Taylor in the backfield, Leftwich would have been passing into much worse situations. Come coach Hos even you know thats simple logic. Look at what happened to Leftwich when the Patriots shut down Taylor. "IT" looked like spit.

Without Parcells scripting our offense Q would have been passing into much worse situations. Without our defense holding teams down we'd have had to pass even more and the level of failure might well have been affected. Ya think?

Look what happened to Q when Tampa, New England, New Orleans, et al played us. Q looked like spit.

Trust me Hos, you don't want to see Leftwich behind 2001, 2002, 2003 DallasCowboys O-line with Troy Hambrick in the backfiled. You already did...see Chad Hutchinson. If Chad had Fred Taylor and a consistent good O-line he'd show off "IT" and post similar numbers to Leftwich.

I am sorry, I think he's a far superior QB, and yes I would. That's why I wanted us to draft him. I think Leftwich will be something very special.

 

[Charles]

Boller got hurt. We gonna "gloss" over that?

So why didn't Billick insert Boller back into the starting line-up after the injury. Injuries are a part of the game. If you are the best option you play. Boller wasn't after his injury.

Henson hasn't proven he's the best option. We already have 2 play-off starting QB on our roster. The Cowboys are a play-off caliber team. Boller came to camp with Redman and Wright on the roster. He had a fat contract. The Ravens were 7-9 team. Arguing that the Cowboys should start Henson because the 7-9 Ravens did the same is ridiculous.

The 2003 Cowboys and 2002 Ravens aren't in the same boat.

 

[Hostile]

So why didn't Billick insert Boller back into the starting line-up after the injury. Injuries are a part of the game. If you are the best option you play. Boller wasn't after his injury.

Henson hasn't proven he's the best option. We already have 2 play-off starting QB on our roster. The Cowboys are a play-off caliber team. Boller came to camp with Redman and Wright on the roster. He had a fat contract. The Ravens were 7-9 team. Arguing that the Cowboys should start Henson because the 7-9 Ravens did the same is ridiculous.

The 2003 Cowboys and 2002 Ravens aren't in the same boat.

Okay we are going to gloss over it.

Boller was injured. He is still the Ravens starter. Wright is gone.

I have NOT said Henson has proven he is our best option. I have said I think he WILL. As in future tense.

You read stuff between the lines that isn't there.

 

[Bill the Butcher]

Heres LURKIN at ya Latuna!...How good of you to be so kind to some of us unfortunates and take the SO CALLED high road by not responding to my laughable drivil. Gee, just wondering, when BP agrees with us and inserts Henson will he be laughable too? Just wondering. Kinda like the way that every sports writer that is a QC fan just must be a man/woman of the highest quality, but every writer who is not pro QC is a hack. Funny how ALL THIS STUFF always seems to be fair for some and not others. Hmmmmmmm

 

[TwoDeep3]

In this thread there is a comment that the Quincy issue is based on race.

One of the posters made mention that we all are subject to feelings about race and preferences because it is human nature.

I agree with this premise.

However, I do take umbrage with a notion which states one must have racial issues if they do not see the wisdom in backing Quincy no matter what he does.

So, Michael Irvin was one of my all time favorite Cowboys, and yet I don't see anyone making these remarks when I defend him.

I enjoyed Emmitt Smith's career and only found fault when he started speaking out and not doing his job.

I loved what Aikman and Novacek did for this team as well as Johnston.

Charles Haley may have had personal issues with behavior, but was one of the greatest defensive ends to play for this team. I really liked him.

I have been one of the most vocal posters on Bob Hayes and the Hall-of-Bullshate.

I was thrilled when Tony Casillas joined the team.

And I am one of the biggest supporters of Dat. And equally as pleased when Dallas hired Randall Cunningham. I wanted him to start more than he did.

So please point out to me where this racism is when I find fault with Quincy.

I find this bullshate of saying it is based on race to be another in the long looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong line of excuses made for this one player.

Fact is this.

We had the number 1 defense in football.

We had the number 12 rushing game in football.

We had the number 17 passing game in football.

For this team to move forward, all aspects of the offense need to improve.

And that includes Quincy and his lack of accuracy and his mental mistakes, along with his consistency.

I don't give a rat's azz what color he is. I complained about some of the same issues with Danny White.

Racists? We ain't got no stinkin' racists.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Arguing that the Cowboys should start Henson because the 7-9 Ravens did the same is ridiculous.

Argh... I don't think anyone argued that... I know I didn't.

 

[Hostile]

Argh... I don't think anyone argued that... I know I didn't.

Amusing isn't it?

He can read my mind, or so he claims. Maybe he can read yours and the 3rd poster's who pointed out Boller was injured as well. We all said the same thing and he derived something way off base from it. Yet somehow I am the one who compares apples to oranges. Go figure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Rush at the Cricket Pavillion in Phoenix. It was their 30th Anniversary and we had backstage passes. Met Alex and Geddy. Neil does not do that stuff. No pictures unfortunately as the Security made me throw away the batteries in my digital camera.

Very cool! Sounds like a blast.

 

[ChrisFul]

LOL!!!!!!!! Does anybody besides me find this post exceedingly funny and somewhat ironic?

Nice

bleh. Once again, ive never said "Just you wait" or "You'll see" or "I told you sos" or anything like Bill leveled at TunaNostra. Once again, others are putting words in my mouth.

Laugh all you friggin want, ABQ.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So why didn't Billick insert Boller back into the starting line-up after the injury. Injuries are a part of the game. If you are the best option you play. Boller wasn't after his injury.

Henson hasn't proven he's the best option. We already have 2 play-off starting QB on our roster. The Cowboys are a play-off caliber team. Boller came to camp with Redman and Wright on the roster. He had a fat contract. The Ravens were 7-9 team. Arguing that the Cowboys should start Henson because the 7-9 Ravens did the same is ridiculous.

The 2003 Cowboys and 2002 Ravens aren't in the same boat.

What a homer Q. Come on already. You talk like our QB sito is so much better then what Baltimore had. If you project Wrights numbers over the season, this would be what they look like. Keep in mind, this was the first opportunty to start for Wright in that offense. You tell me, is this all that much different then QC?

ATT 406/comp 215 53%, 2740 yards, 21 TDs and 18 INTs.


We are a playoff team but not because of our QB play. Surely that can not be argued. Lets look at this from a different perspective. What if we end up having to play Henson in 2005? Would you still say that we are in a better position or would you say that the Ravens are better positioned having Boller with a season and one half game experience under his belt?