50+ minutes of Dak winning games in the clutch

FuzzyLumpkins

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OK, professor ..."People WHO like to ..."
No matter what they say in Kentucky.

And, if I may add, subjective usage is difficult to bear and to understand for you Dak Comfort Men.
You've been petulant towards me ever since I told oyu your schtick was lame about a decade ago. It is obvious you are just here with an axe to grind so I am going to put you on ignore for awhile.
 

TheSport78

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No, that is various statistical organizations' definition that I am using. So we have ours and you have yours.
And how did those organizations define what "clutch" is? So you're correct, it's "a" definition, not "thee" definition, because it's subjective.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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And how did those organizations define what "clutch" is? So you're correct, it's "a" definition, not "thee" definition, because it's subjective.
It is not a definition, it is a metric to measure the phenomenon. Statisticians for the most part have thoroughly debunked the notion that it even exists regardless of how you define it.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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We have the truth - Dak ain't clutch. If he was he would be better in the playoffs.
You and he can have a truth party. There is no statistical reason to believe that stats become special in high leverage situations when you look at the total of said situations. It's just so much noise and small samples.
 

CowboyoWales

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We have the truth - Dak ain't clutch. If he was he would be better in the playoffs.
If we take the definition of clutch as "Close and late is defined as last 4 minutes and within one score of a lead or tie", then you cant really ignore the last two play-off defeats vrs the 49ers....surly that's the epitome of clutch. 50+ mins of cherrypicked highlights undone by 30 seconds of contemporary meaningful lowlights in two crucial games.
 

CowboyoWales

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There is no statistical reason to believe that stats become special in high leverage situations when you look at the total of said situations.
....and there's the hole in your whole argument, because if he cant do it in the ultimate play-off (which even you should agree is the aim) then every clutch performance vrs the 1-11 Texans in a regular game is meaningless as it cant be replicated. You're judging every stat to be equal, which they're not.
Most of us associate being Clutch as doing it when it really matters (and especially when there's no next drive or next game).....49ers play-off losses exemplify, when in the ultimate Clutch scenario, he's been found wanting.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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....and there's the hole in your whole argument, because if he cant do it in the ultimate play-off (which even you should agree is the aim) then every clutch performance vrs the 1-11 Texans in a regular game is meaningless as it cant be replicated. You're judging every stat to be equal, which they're not.
Most of us associate being Clutch as doing it when it really matters (and especially when there's no next drive or next game).....49ers play-off losses exemplify, when in the ultimate Clutch scenario, he's been found wanting.
No, it's not. It is just an observation. You clearly do a poor job of restating my arguments. I said in each instance clutch stats end up equivalent to the nonbiased stat in the aggregate. It's why you never see a stat for average clutch performance.

I did not say all stats are equal.

You've abandoned your trailing stat and now are just moving on to handwaving at the 49ers.

No one is saying that we should ignore his performance against the 49ers. The 49ers do seem to have his and the offenses number. He needs to play better. That is not the only team and those are not the only games.

I get you really want someone to blame for the playoff losses.
 

mattjames2010

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This is meaningless unless it's put up against other QBs with his amount of starting experience. I don't think anyone has ever claimed he has never made a play in crunch time.

Also the quality of the defenses he did this against also matters. This is why Rodgers was criticized so heavily in the past due to his record against good teams in close games. He just couldn't get it done.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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This is meaningless unless it's put up against other QBs with his amount of starting experience. I don't think anyone has ever claimed he has never made a play in crunch time.

Also the quality of the defenses he did this against also matters. This is why Rodgers was criticized so heavily in the past due to his record against good teams in close games. He just couldn't get it done.
You would be wrong. People saying there was no evidence of Dak being clutch that had me post it in the first place.

I agree that looking at specific variables and comparing to other top QB performances is a good idea.
 

CowboyoWales

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No one is saying that we should ignore his performance against the 49ers. The 49ers do seem to have his and the offenses number. He needs to play better. That is not the only team and those are not the only games.

I get you really want someone to blame for the playoff losses.

I bring up the 49ers game/S as they are just about as Clutch as you can get, now there may be contributory reasons/excuses as to the failures, but it could also be attributed to a lack of composure in the more pressurized scenario's.

Indeed, rather that move on from Dak's 55 Rating when Trailing <2mins, you could extend it to add Trailing with <4mns, where his 73 Rating lags way behind: Allen, Cousins, Stafford (and even trails Goff).

Another example of less than Clutch performance is the number of 4th Q comebacks which have dramatically reduced since coming back from the 2020 injury. Indeed, when requiring a TD he's only managed one comeback and that was against the 1-11 Texans. Yes he's had 4 comeback wins in that period, but the other three he had the cushion of just requiring a fg.....again that lessen's the pressure and so diminishes 'clutchness'

Interestingly, he has a tendency (over the past two seasons) to be unable to pull out those comebacks where he's playing a good team and despite having the ball eg Buccs in 2021 and the Chiefs where after going down by 2 scores but Dak had the ball on 9 occasions and was unable to dent the lead.

Again, im just of the opinion that Dak's the very QB you want to protect a lead, but not when he's chasing and pressure mounts.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I bring up the 49ers game/S as they are just about as Clutch as you can get, now there may be contributory reasons/excuses as to the failures, but it could also be attributed to a lack of composure in the more pressurized scenario's.

Indeed, rather that move on from Dak's 55 Rating when Trailing <2mins, you could extend it to add Trailing with <4mns, where his 73 Rating lags way behind: Allen, Cousins, Stafford (and even trails Goff).

Another example of less than Clutch performance is the number of 4th Q comebacks which have dramatically reduced since coming back from the 2020 injury. Indeed, when requiring a TD he's only managed one comeback and that was against the 1-11 Texans. Yes he's had 4 comeback wins in that period, but the other three he had the cushion of just requiring a fg.....again that lessen's the pressure and so diminishes 'clutchness'

Interestingly, he has a tendency (over the past two seasons) to be unable to pull out those comebacks where he's playing a good team and despite having the ball eg Buccs in 2021 and the Chiefs where after going down by 2 scores but Dak had the ball on 9 occasions and was unable to dent the lead.

Again, im just of the opinion that Dak's the very QB you want to protect a lead, but not when he's chasing and pressure mounts.
I take your anecdotes and rejoin the OP. 50 minutes as opposed to poorly remembered and poorly articulated anecdotes.
 

SpaceCowboy99

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Let's rewatch his choke moments. All 1200 minutes of it. What's embarrassing is that when he plays bad, he plays really bad. Hea had some comically embarrassing choke performances.

I would take a more consistent QB any day of the week.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Let's rewatch his choke moments. All 1200 minutes of it. What's embarrassing is that when he plays bad, he plays really bad. Hea had some comically embarrassing choke performances.

I would take a more consistent QB any day of the week.

Go ahead and post them. I won't hold my breath.
 

GINeric

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Let's rewatch his choke moments. All 1200 minutes of it. What's embarrassing is that when he plays bad, he plays really bad. Hea had some comically embarrassing choke performances.

I would take a more consistent QB any day of the week.

Is Aaron Rodgers considered a choker in your opinion? He has the same amount of rings as Trent Dilpher, Nick Foles and Matthew Stafford and less rings than Eli Manning.

So I guess he's no better than those other quarterbacks, correct?

I assume all other quarterbacks in NFL history who've played 6 years in the league without winning a superbowl is considered a choker as well, according to your logic.
 

SpaceCowboy99

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Do you guys have such short memories? I don't even have to post a video. Rewatch the bookend games from last year. Game one and playoff game. That's your real Dak. That's 7 seasons right there and he looks the same in game 1 as he did in the final game. Actually worst.

You guys are backing the wrong horse but keep going, I'll just bump this thread in a few years when he's finally washed out.
 
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