A Case for Greg Ellis.

[superpunk]

Yeah, you got me.

 

[Vintage]

Yeah, you got me.

Sweet.

Because I am busy laughing my *** off.

 

[Alexander]

Noone wants to acknowledge this, either. It's always - "Greg Ellis and the tale of the Hometown Discount."

Load of garbage. He likely got more here than he would have elsewhere. Grant Wistrom is a lovely name to trot out, but at this point, Greg wasn't even "Grant Wistrom" material.

He was not nearly as visable as Grant Wistrom. He was a barely above average left end on some relatively poor teams and defenses.

The Rams and their defense was successful as it had appeared in Super Bowls.

Teams look to champions to pick apart in free agency.

That is how players like Larry Brown, Jimmie Jones and Alvin Harper all got megadeals that far superceded their career production.

Just because Wistrom was overpaid for his status doesn't entitle Ellis to a single solitary thing.

It is a flimsy and very tired excuse that holds no water any longer.

 

[Doomsday101]

Noone wants to acknowledge this, either. It's always - "Greg Ellis and the tale of the Hometown Discount."

Load of garbage. He likely got more here than he would have elsewhere. Grant Wistrom is a lovely name to trot out, but at this point, Greg wasn't even "Grant Wistrom" material.

In fairness to Ellis who else has provided any pass rush opposite him? Ellis has not had the luxury of having any other true pass rusher to work with.

 

[Vintage]

If there were escalators in his clause like a million dollar bonus for 10 sacks, how does Ellis have anyone to blame but himself?

 

[Hostile]

Come on Hos. Why take what i said to the extreme when you know i didn’t mean it like that. I mean this is football, we call players heroes and games wars. I understand the frustration, but come on, some need to lighten up on the guy a little.

Like I said Exxx, to call that "hatred" is to lessen what "hatred" really is. We can't do that. It is something we should never stand for.

Hatred, the real stuff, is a disease that infects society. It should be sniffed out and exposed.

Criticism is an inalienable right and if we take that away then we reach stasis.

I know it is a common term any more, but I just happen to think it is very wrong and should not be used ever. Real hatred should never be associated with anything as sacharine as "insults." Like I said in a different post, when we reach that point we are under martial law in the land of the free. Not where I want to be.

 

[superpunk]

In fairness to Ellis who else has provided any pass rush opposite him? Ellis has not had the luxury of having any other true pass rusher to work with.

How is that "in fairness?"

Who lined up opposite Derrick Burgess last year? Julius Peppers? Aaron Schobel? Aaron Kampman?

That's a flimsy excuse for Ellis not clearing the ten sack mark he and Jerry set as an incentive in his contract. Good pass rushers don't require a threat opposite them to still be effective. Just ask DeMarcus Ware.

 

[BrassCowboy]

One thing different is that Ellis needs to do his ranting in private.

I am not sure if you covered this point - Ellis is threatening in not so many words to sit out his contract that he signed, and that will never go over well with fans. And that has been pretty consistant.

Regardless of any "promise" that may or may not have been made orally or by an understanding, no boss is going to offer a genious suffering from alzheimers the ceo job, so same goes with jerry jones in that he will not offer anymore money at this point to a guy that may never come back 100%. Sorry, I know he is worried about his future for exactly that reason, but that is the way the game is played and he should of played it better when he signed his contract extension.

Frankly, we have two years left with Ellis and it is a guarantee that he will not be starting in two years, so why pay him alot more money? Let him play for two years then cut him. He will be 32 - 33 years old by then.

 

[Vintage]

Greg Ellis, the meltdown.

In '02, he finishes the last 5 games with 1 sack. This, after notching 5.5 sacks the first four games.

In '03, he actually finished strong, with 4 sacks in 4 games. The problem was, he had 4 sacks in the previous 12.

In '04, he he started out with 6 sacks in 5 games. But he finished with 1 sack in the remaining 5 games. He also had a period of 5 games where he registered 1/2 sack in the middle of the season.

In '05, he finished the season with 0 sacks in the remaining 5 games.

 

[Doomsday101]

How is that "in fairness?"

Who lined up opposite Derrick Burgess last year? Julius Peppers? Aaron Schobel? Aaron Kampman?

That's a flimsy excuse for Ellis not clearing the ten sack mark he and Jerry set as an incentive in his contract. Good pass rushers don't require a threat opposite them to still be effective. Just ask DeMarcus Ware.

Aaron Kampman had KGB on the opposite side who draw attention from the offense. Peppers plays on a defensive unit with some good talent on it. You may think it is flimsy but it is not hard to take 1 guy out of the game if you are not getting more from others along the line.

 

[Vintage]

Aaron Kampman had KGB on the opposite side who draw attention from the offense. Peppers plays on a defensive unit with some good talent on it. You may think it is flimsy but it is not hard to take 1 guy out of the game if you are not getting more from others along the line.

The same KGB who got benched?

Yeah, teams feared him.

 

[superpunk]

Aaron Kampman had KGB on the opposite side who draw attention from the offense. Peppers plays on a defensive unit with some good talent on it. You may think it is flimsy but it is not hard to take 1 guy out of the game if you are not getting more from others along the line.

No, I know it's flimsy. KGB doesn't start, and rarely plays anymore - the point is, good pass rushers get theirs regardless of help around them. Of the players I mentioned, only Kampman had another player in the top 40 in sacks to play alongside him last year. They all still got theirs.

It's a weak excuse built in for Ellis.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Like I said Exxx, to call that "hatred" is to lessen what "hatred" really is. We can't do that. It is something we should never stand for.

Hatred, the real stuff, is a disease that infects society. It should be sniffed out and exposed.

Criticism is an inalienable right and if we take that away then we reach stasis.

I know it is a common term any more, but I just happen to think it is very wrong and should not be used ever. Real hatred should never be associated with anything as sacharine as "insults." Like I said in a different post, when we reach that point we are under martial law in the land of the free. Not where I want to be.

Everyone hates something or someone at some point. It is a common emotion with different levels. You want to make it black or white and i don’t agree it is. I hate waking up in the mornings is different than i hate child molestors. Anyways, i hate dealines but they are calling.

 

[Doomsday101]

The same KGB who got benched?

Yeah, teams feared him.

No the same KGB who has avg 10 sacks a season. If all you have is 1 guy who can rush the passer it is not difficult for any OC to slow that 1 guy down. Even the great LT had very good talent around him as did our own Randy White who work along with Harvey Martin. Sorry I think it does matter that a pass rusher have others around who can play at high levels.

 

[Doomsday101]

No, I know it's flimsy. KGB doesn't start, and rarely plays anymore - the point is, good pass rushers get theirs regardless of help around them. Of the players I mentioned, only Kampman had another player in the top 40 in sacks to play alongside him last year. They all still got theirs.

It's a weak excuse built in for Ellis.

I disagree that pass rusher do not need others to help them out and for most of Ellis career he has not had jack around him to help provide a consistent pass rush.

 

[Vintage]

No the same KGB who has avg 10 sacks a season. If all you have is 1 guy who can rush the passer it is not difficult for any OC to slow that 1 guy down. Even the great LT had very good talent around him as did our own Randy White who work along with Harvey Martin. Sorry I think it does matter that a pass rusher have others around who can play at high levels.

So....when Kampmann exploded last season, KGB was a force to free him up?

I don't care if KGB averaged 10 sacks a season or not. Last year when Kampmann exploded; KGB was so much of a force he "earned" the right to the bench.

So therefore, him averaging 10 sacks is irrelevant.

When KGB was "averaging 10 sacks a season", Kampmann was getting 6.5, 4.5, 2, and .5 sacks per season. When Kampmann emerged, it was when KGB fell off. And Kampmann faced a majority of those double teams...

And. Still. Managed. To. Produce.

 

[superpunk]

I disagree that pass rusher do not need others to help them out and for most of Ellis career he has not had jack around him to help provide a consistent pass rush.

That's fine.

You're just wrong.

 

[Doomsday101]

So....when Kampmann exploded last season, KGB was a force to free him up?


I don't care if KGB averaged 10 sacks a season or not. Last year when Kampmann exploded; KGB was so much of a force he "earned" the right to the bench.

So therefore, him averaging 10 sacks is irrelevant.

No but the DT next to him put up 7 sacks on the season along with some others on the GB line. Who has Ellis ever had in Dallas? other than Ware, Ellis has been the lone pass rusher and if he is not getting the sacks no one else was. If you don't think an OC can take one player out then we clearly disagree. I don't agree with Ellis moaning right now but I do know that Ellis has not had much talent along the line to help much.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's fine.

You're just wrong.

In your opinion which does not mean jack

 

[Vintage]

No but the DT next to him put up 7 sacks on the season along with some others on the GB line. Who has Ellis ever had in Dallas? other than Ware, Ellis has been the lone pass rusher and if he is not getting the sacks no one else was. If you don't think an OC can take one player out then we clearly disagree. I don't agree with Ellis moaning right now but I do know that Ellis has not had much talent along the line to help much.

Other than Ellis, who has Ware ever had?

He produces.

When Ellis went down, what did Ware do? Ware finished the season with 5.5 sacks in 4 games. Who did he have to draw attention from? The great Marcus Spears, Chris Canty, et al?