A Case for Greg Ellis.

[Big Dakota]

LOL, let's not get on a merry-go-round here.

Note my last line about perception then your first line about how 'you' see it.
Also you add 'insulting tactic'?

What is insulting about and insulting to whom?

If a guy feels he is underpaid making 50k a year and asks for more money who is he insulting? Is he insulting all those who make less than that? Is he insulting his Boss? His company?

I just don't get(see my perception here) the side in this that feels they are a victim because Greg Ellis thinks he is....

Why do any of us care what he says at all provided he does his job?

My challenge about Greg Ellis would be this.
find any player in the league with more starts and more sacks then Greg Ellis since 1998 who makes less money than him. Any one player at all.

If that is not possible then perhaps any one player who is on their second contract, has more starts and makes less than him....


Terry Glenn has been injury prone. He was given a quite large pay bump before his contract near up. So Jerry has renegotiated a guy's contract before it was near up to get it inline with other salaries.

What i find funny about this whole situation is Greg's reasoning behind his "unfair" contract. Parcells coerced Jerry into asking Greg to forego a big signing bonus and be a team guy. Well if that's the case i have absolutely NO sympathy for Ellis and in fact causes me to lose a lot of respct for him as a man, never mind Greg the player. When is it ever smart to allow others to take food off your families plate when there was no need? He could have played out his deal and been an UFA. HE decided to be a "team guy" and take less money for whom? The team, Jerry, the fans? He sure wasn't thinking about his family if that was the case. So why now is he displeased with his status as "TEAM GUY"? He should be proud of that tag. But no, he wants a do over.

See i'm an old horse man. I've bought many a horse over the years. If a man walks up to me with a horse and it's lame, i can see that. If i buy that lame horse and he's never healthy again, who do i blame? The guy that sold me a lame horse when i could see it wa lame, or do i blame myself? I suspect Greg feels he bought a lame horse. If he wasn't smart enought to see that at the time, then shame on him and he gets no soup from me. If he did see it coming, then he needs to live with it like a man.

 

[DallasEast]

When i said i didn’t understand the hate, i ment i didn’t understand the insults. To me when someone insults it is out of hate or a dislike. I don’t understand your crutch or weak minded comments because they do not apply to me.

Let me go on record as saying that all of my 'insults' towards Ellis are in reaction to his very public stance. If he had kept his disgruntlement (sp?) low key, I doubt that I would have 'insulted' him at all.

 

[superpunk]

What i find funny about this whole situation is Greg's reasoning behind his "unfair" contract. Parcells coerced Jerry into asking Greg to forego a big signing bonus and be a team guy. Well if that's the case i have absolutely NO sympathy for Ellis and in fact causes me to lose a lot of respct for him as a man, never mind Greg the player. When is it ever smart to allow others to take food off your families plate when there was no need? He could have played out his deal and been an UFA. HE decided to be a "team guy" and take less money for whom? The team, Jerry, the fans? He sure wasn't thinking about his family if that was the case. So why now is he displeased with his status as "TEAM GUY"? He should be proud of that tag. But no, he wants a do over.

That's because the notion that Ellis signed a seven-year deal that rivaled Leonard Little's out of the goodness of his heart is complete trash - just another myth that has been repeated so much it MUST be true by now.

Ellis got more than he deserved from Jones, for his play to that point. Noone else was going to give this underachieving injury-riddled player a seven year deal. Jones offered it, and Ellis jumped - why? Because it was the best he could get.

Revisionist history is great, tho.

 

[Big Dakota]

So, if this is what actually happened, Ellis' pandering to the media did not force a meeting between Jones and his agent. In fact, it was his agent who approached Jones to help control the nonsense which his client has ignited.

:laugh2: Sounds about right.

 

[Jarv]

Let's look at players drafted within 5 spots of that 8 spot - we'll keep it reasonable and go five spots lower, so players 8-12.

From that list, we have DeAngelo Hall, Ben Roethlisberger, Jonathan Vilma, Kevin Williams, Terrell Suggs, Roy Williams, John Henderson, Dwight Freeney, Plaxico Burress, Brian Urlacher, Chris McCallister and Daunte Culpepper. Ellis doesn't belong in a discussion with these players.

He signed a deal, by doing so he agreed that it was fair.

He has not outperformed the deal that was agreed upon.

We're in year three of the whinefest.

He's coming off an injury, and still has the gall to be the same old money-grubbing selfish player he has been. He should be thanking Jerry. After all, at the time they signed a deal, better players than Ellis had just gotten similar deals. Ellis had never even sniffed Little's territory, but Jerry gave him a seven year deal. And this is how the "good guy" show's gratitude? By claiming he was cheated by the hand of evil Bill Parcells back in the day?

He didn't deserve the deal he got when he got it. He saw the seven years and guaranteed money, and snatched it up. Now he's got remorse, because the market has changed, he's old, and he likely won't be getting another deal.

That's tough cheese. It's not show-friends.

What better players got similar deals ? Since you stated can you please post these deals.

 

[DallasEast]

See i'm an old horse man. I've bought many a horse over the years. If a man walks up to me with a horse and it's lame, i can see that. If i buy that lame horse and he's never healthy again, who do i blame? The guy that sold me a lame horse when i could see it wa lame, or do i blame myself? I suspect Greg feels he bought a lame horse. If he wasn't smart enought to see that at the time, then shame on him and he gets no soup from me. If he did see it coming, then he needs to live with it like a man.

Ellis finds himself in a catch-22 situation. Since he's attempting to recover from a serious Achilles injury, HE is the lame one within any re-negotiation.

 

[Alexander]

Then again I have always wanted to be a voice of reason more than I wanted to be popular.

A "voice of reason" would not be advocating the complete upheaval of an NFL team's salary structure. The problem is what Ellis is asking for is unreasonable by its very nature.

Teams cannot and do not tear up old deals and suddenly give up front money to injured players of Ellis' caliber. They just don't.

Each and every Cowboy under contract who is edging towards or is over the age of 30 could ask for their own "commitment" to feel "secure". Jones would have a line outside his office. He refused to have a meeting for a reason and chances are that is why.

You like Greg Ellis. We all understand that. But you are barking up the wrong tree, for the wrong reasons.

Were it another player, I can bet you would not care. And neither would a lot of other posters who constantly defend his every whine and groan.

LOL, let's not get on a merry-go-round here.

Note my last line about perception then your first line about how 'you' see it.
Also you add 'insulting tactic'?

What is insulting about and insulting to whom?

If a guy feels he is underpaid making 50k a year and asks for more money who is he insulting? Is he insulting all those who make less than that? Is he insulting his Boss? His company?

I just don't get(see my perception here) the side in this that feels they are a victim because Greg Ellis thinks he is....

Why do any of us care what he says at all provided he does his job?

My challenge about Greg Ellis would be this.
find any player in the league with more starts and more sacks then Greg Ellis since 1998 who makes less money than him. Any one player at all.

If that is not possible then perhaps any one player who is on their second contract, has more starts and makes less than him....


Terry Glenn has been injury prone. He was given a quite large pay bump before his contract near up. So Jerry has renegotiated a guy's contract before it was near up to get it inline with other salaries.

Then you can apply this kind of argument towards ANY player who has a problem with their contract.

ANY.

Not just the "nice guys". Tenure doesn't count for anything.

Welcome to the NFL.

So can we expect you will be writing articles campaigning for raises for other Cowboys very soon?

 

[Hostile]

When i said i didn’t understand the hate, i ment i didn’t understand the insults. To me when someone insults it is out of hate or a dislike. I don’t understand your crutch or weak minded comments because they do not apply to me.

Then you should say "I don't understand the insults." No one will flinch. There is a huge chasm between dislike (which insults may or may not fall into) and hatred. If you do not understand this please look up hate groups and read up on them and their tactics. You will find those labeled as "haters" of Greg Ellis probably do not fit the stereotype as I seriously doubt they wish to lynch him.

When you accuse people of hate, if they don't in fact hate the man, you're going to get a response you aren't looking for.

I understand that this is a product of our times to say someone who is not offering glowing praise is a "hater." I find that offensive. It lessens the impact of people who really do "hate" and to me that is dead wrong. Basically what you are saying to me by defining it this way is that the KKK is really just about insulting those who don't agree with them. Or that the ***** were just insulting the Jews in those death camps.

No sir. That's offensive.

 

[Alexander]

That's because the notion that Ellis signed a seven-year deal that rivaled Leonard Little's out of the goodness of his heart is complete trash - just another myth that has been repeated so much it MUST be true by now.

Greg Ellis is a nice person.

Hence anything and everything he does is nice, without malice, avarice or self-motivation.

Until now, because the unfair and deceitful way the organization has handled his case for the last three years.

Right. All clear. Good.

 

[superpunk]

What better players got similar deals ? Since you stated can you please post these deals.

Leonard Little. We've been over this before. Shortly before Ellis signed, Little got a five year 17.5 million dollar deal. he and Ellis both got almost the same amount of guaranteed money, with Little getting about 500k more guaranteed.

The difference?

Little was coming off a 14.5 sack pro-bowl year, followed by a 12 sack year. Greg Ellis? He had managed 13.5 sacks the previous two years combined.

 

[Big Dakota]

Ellis finds himself in a catch-22 situation. Since he's attempting to recover from a serious Achilles injury, HE is the lame one within any re-negotiation.

And you can bet your sweet bippy Jerry knows a lame horse when he see's one

 

[Big Dakota]

Leonard Little. We've been over this before. Shortly before Ellis signed, Little got a five year 17.5 million dollar deal. he and Ellis both got almost the same amount of guaranteed money, with Little getting about 500k more guaranteed.

The difference?

Little was coming off a 14.5 sack pro-bowl year, followed by a 12 sack year. Greg Ellis? He had managed 13.5 sacks the previous two years combined.

And that's why Jerry is mad at Greg and Greg won't see one thin dime more than he's signd for. He knows Greg knows he was compensated VERY well at the time. The market was the market. I wish i could have purchased my house at 1988 prices in 2002, but that's not reality. Greg needs to come back to reality.

 

[Alexander]

When i said i didn’t understand the hate, i ment i didn’t understand the insults. To me when someone insults it is out of hate or a dislike. I don’t understand your crutch or weak minded comments because they do not apply to me.

Players are "insulted" on this site nearly every day.

You concerned about the Ellis "haters".

But how about the Terrell Owens haters, the Bradie James haters, the Roy Williams haters, the Julius Jones haters etc. etc.

Does it apply only to the players that are popular? Who you believe are "nice" or have been told for years by reporters that they are "classy"?

Fact is, some players are held to different standards.

To the majority of posters on this site, it is okay to "hate" Terrell Owens.

It is especially okay to "hate" players you don't like. In fact, the amount of hate increases when the player is gone. I have seen every insult possible hurled Mike Vanderjagt's way. People still have no trouble snickering about Torrin Tucker or Jose Cortez.

But heaven forbid, not Greg Ellis.

 

[BigDFan5]

the problem with your thinking here is you assume he could get that meeting....

Jones did not want to give it to him. He told us all that.

After a few articles then his agent DID meet with Jones.

I'd suggest he took to the media to get what he could not in private.

Thats all just conjecture but so is your take that he could have accomplished his goals privately.

Since when has any NFL contract squabble been silent? --obviously we wouldn't know if it was...lol so they all get aired as far as we know.

Its the big story of the off-season for many clubs including the Pats what seems like yearly.

I see it differently Jerry only said no meeting AFTER Ellis cried to the press for the third straight year. No way was Jerry going to get bullied into a meeting. Ellis should have been a professional and kept his gripes in private

 

[BigDFan5]

I did respond....

I stated that injured players get contracts with new teams as they are cut and that Greg Ellis is not going to be cut because he is so cheap.

I absolutely agree his health status is the primary point in favor of not ever giving him another red cent.

That didnt actually answer his challenge though

Your challenge is quite hard to respond to in that it requires information across many teams and many players without a direct correlation to any stat.
Contracts themselves are not even released except unofficially.

I fully admit I am far from Adamjt13 with access or ability to quickly find that type of info and would suggest it is quite rare indeed if it has in fact occurred.

Your challenge requires the exact same thing that you admit is not available

 

[Hostile]

Players are "insulted" on this site nearly every day.

You concerned about the Ellis "haters".

But how about the Terrell Owens haters, the Bradie James haters, the Roy Williams haters, the Julius Jones haters etc. etc.

Does it apply only to the players that are popular? Who you believe are "nice" or have been told for years by reporters that they are "classy"?

Fact is, some players are held to different standards.

To the majority of posters on this site, it is okay to "hate" Terrell Owens.

It is especially okay to "hate" players you don't like. In fact, the amount of hate increases when the player is gone. I have seen every insult possible hurled Mike Vanderjagt's way. People still have no trouble snickering about Torrin Tucker or Jose Cortez.

But heaven forbid, not Greg Ellis.

I am sure you know this, but I don't think people "hate" those players either.

Okay, so some probably do "hate" TO.

When criticism is tantamount to real "hatred" we will have reached martial law.

 

[superpunk]

And that's why Jerry is mad at Greg and Greg won't see one thin dime more than he's signd for. He knows Greg knows he was compensated VERY well at the time. The market was the market. I wish i could have purchased my house at 1988 prices in 2002, but that's not reality. Greg needs to come back to reality.

Noone wants to acknowledge this, either. It's always - "Greg Ellis and the tale of the Hometown Discount."

Load of garbage. He likely got more here than he would have elsewhere. Grant Wistrom is a lovely name to trot out, but at this point, Greg wasn't even "Grant Wistrom" material.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Then you should say "I don't understand the insults." No one will flinch. There is a huge chasm between dislike (which insults may or may not fall into) and hatred. If you do not understand this please look up hate groups and read up on them and their tactics. You will find those labeled as "haters" of Greg Ellis probably do not fit the stereotype as I seriously doubt they wish to lynch him.

When you accuse people of hate, if they don't in fact hate the man, you're going to get a response you aren't looking for.

I understand that this is a product of our times to say someone who is not offering glowing praise is a "hater." I find that offensive. It lessens the impact of people who really do "hate" and to me that is dead wrong. Basically what you are saying to me by defining it this way is that the KKK is really just about insulting those who don't agree with them. Or that the ***** were just insulting the Jews in those death camps.

No sir. That's offensive.

Come on Hos. Why take what i said to the extreme when you know i didn’t mean it like that. I mean this is football, we call players heroes and games wars. I understand the frustration, but come on, some need to lighten up on the guy a little.

 

[Vintage]

Greg Ellis Whining Interview


Pretty interesting what he has to say about the whole situation.

 

[Alexander]

Greg Ellis Whining Interview


Pretty interesting what he has to say about the whole situation.

Ellis dances like he is trapped in the 1980s.

Dreadful.