Adrian Peterson Sweepstakes ***Officially reinstated (again) and merged***

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ufcrules1

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I don't see where Minnesota loses, though. If someone offers you a 1st for AP, maybe. But if the offer isn't acceptable, you simply tell AP, "Either you play here or you play nowhere."

If AP sits, he doesn't get paid anything.

The Vikings have ALL the leverage. Teams have shown in the past they are willing to let players sit and stew rather than to acquiesce to a bad deal.

No, they don't have all the leverage. When a player doesn't want to play for you and you MAKE him.. that can be an ugly situation. Peterson could go out there and only give 50% if he wanted and there isn't anything they can do about it. If some team offers a #1 for him, they would be fools not to take it.. hell, even a number 2. That teams needs to rebuild badly.. Peterson's salary is an anchor around their necks. They can kill 2 birds with one stone by getting rid of his salary and getting a top 3 round pick for him. That is why they are going to trade him.
 

JoeBoBBY

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I don't see where Minnesota loses, though. If someone offers you a 1st for AP, maybe. But if the offer isn't acceptable, you simply tell AP, "Either you play here or you play nowhere."

If AP sits, he doesn't get paid anything.

The Vikings have ALL the leverage. Teams have shown in the past they are willing to let players sit and stew rather than to acquiesce to a bad deal.

If he is on the roster for the first game I think, he is guaranteed 13 million.....I think thats the case? Staserhoo posted the date in this thread .......somewhere. I think I read that.

And he doesn't want to be with the team.,,,,

I don't think Minny wants a malcontent as the face of the franchise, and they don't want to eat 13 million. So, they are going to play ball. But, I don't think AP can then turn around and ask them to take a lesser offer from one team, so he can play at the team of his choice. Forcing Minny to take less then market value for him. I am not sure how that is going to play out. Maybe Minny just gets tired of it and trades him to Dallas for a 4th round pick. Or maybe they get so bent out of shape, that they make an example of AP and eat the money and force him to set out. Set out a year of the precious years he has left....

Unless APs team(cough Cowboys) get close to what the other team is offering. If that happens, then everybody is happy. Minny gets something for their trouble, AP gets to play where he wants, and Dallas gets a bellcow and immediately changes the entire outlook. Energizes this franchise like no other player.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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What serious decline? He's been a one-man team for too long. He's been playing with rookies and nobody QBs his whole career.

Backs decline because they change. They get fatter, slower, less interested, more reluctant, semi-committed. Peterson still looks exactly like he did the day he was drafted, and everything I've read, he's raging to get back on the field.

The typical rules don't apply to all players. He's got 2-3 premier years left, which happens to coincide with our QB. This would help Tony Romo tremendously.

The only RB I see with a whisper of hope to make that kind of impact is Gurley. The rest are probably solid, but not transcendent.

2000 > 1200 by a huge margin. That is a decline.
 

JoeBoBBY

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"The source named six teams in the mix for Peterson: Arizona, Atlanta, Dallas, Jacksonville, San Diego and Tampa Bay. The source does not believe Oakland, mentioned in media reports as a possible candidate, is in the mix."

Dallas, AZ........maybe Atlanta? I dont see AP accepting to go to any other team....thats just me guessing;

And out of those 2-3 teams, he wants Dallas. Now, can he force Minnys hand if the Cardinals or Falcons offer a significantly better deal? If I were Minny, I would give APs agent the best deal and say , here is your way out, take it, play for us, or sit out the year....
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I don't see where Minnesota loses, though. If someone offers you a 1st for AP, maybe. But if the offer isn't acceptable, you simply tell AP, "Either you play here or you play nowhere."

If AP sits, he doesn't get paid anything.

The Vikings have ALL the leverage. Teams have shown in the past they are willing to let players sit and stew rather than to acquiesce to a bad deal.

This is goofy. AP has other options than to not show up at all.

He can show up and do the absolutely minimum and make waves in the locker room and still get paid $13m. Where is the leverage there?

Nobody is paying him $13m even them. They have no leverage come the first day of the season when his salary becomes guaranteed.
 

MichaelValentino

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They were still all done by 30. They decided the beating wasn't worth or whatever but it is what it is. Sayers may have been done due to injury but he was still done far before age 28.

You can call me on facts all you want but the point still stands for all your waving at the ones who match your bias that I have recognized as the 28%. You also left out Dickerson, OJ and several others in your zeal to only acknowledge that which suits your bias.

I'm not saying that he is destined to fail. I am just saying that like normal RB, HoF fall off a cliff too. And for all your claims of what some guy was able to do at age 30 we still haven't seen AP run or do anything in over a year. We are in a position of extreme ignorance yet I see the gaps filled with wishful thinking.

I responded by discussing the backs in your post. I don't believe you mentioned Simpson or Dickerson - if you did, I apologize for overlooking them. In terms of greatest of all time, Dickerson is in my top 5. As great as Simpson was, IMO, I would take Peterson over him.

As for Dickerson, you are right: he did fall off a cliff at age 30. He had the most upright running style - even going through the hole - of any back I can remember. He was 6'3" with 4.4 speed, had 400 or more touches in five different seasons, and it could well be that he simply lost his legs after seven years of punishment. Dickerson was, for me, one of the three most spectacular backs to watch play (Sayers, Dorsett) because of his acceleration and explosiveness. Peterson is built more solidly and stronger pound-for-pound than Dickerson, runs with more of a lean, and dishes out a lot of punishment of his own, more so than Dickerson or Simpson ever did.

Tony Dorsett was smaller but did not take as much punishment because he was more elusive than Dickerson. Dorsett ran a 4.38 at age 34 in the Denver training camp. At 31, Dorsett had his third best rushing season with the Cowboys, and at 29-30 Dorsett had a combined 3256 yd from scrimmage. By age 32, Hershel Walker was there and TD was a part-time player. For a 190 lb speed back, Dorsett still was producing in is early 30s. Simpson had a dramatic drop-off at age 30, but he only had three spectacular seasons out of his nine in Buffalo (which is surprising given he had a very good O-line). His last year in Buffalo and two season in SF were far from memorable.

Gale Sayers played only 50 NFL games when he was healthy. Adrian Peterson returned from a serious knee injury in nine months and came within nine yards of the all-time rushing record. The difference may have been medical advances between 1968 and 2011. If medical technology was then what it is now, I believe Sayers would have been producing jaw-dropping highlights when he was 29, 30, 31. But we will never know. What we do know is that Peterson, like Gale, sustained a serious knee injury and then returned in record time to fall just short of making history. That tells me something about the man's character and grit, just as Sayers showed such grit and determination in 1968-69 when Brian Piccolo pushed Gale hard during rehab to return from what was then a simply devastating injury.

I don't know the reason(s) why Brown and Barry retired in their prime (perhaps you know more than I in that regard). I had heard Brown wanted to get into acting. Barry was just tired of playing, as I recall. Both had a lot of tread left on their tires.

You are squarely in the camp that believes since backs hit a wall at age 30, the Cowboys should stay clear of Adrian Peterson. Your determining factor is age. I point out that Gale Sayers left football at age 27 because he was born decades before orthopedic surgeons could arthroscopically repair mangled knees, and that two other HOFers were still performing at an All-Pro level at age 29 or 30. I point all this out to counter your statement that the very backs I refer to were over and done with by age 29, and yet you dismiss my rebuttal out of hand and accuse me of some sort of bias.

I brought up Walter Payton because I watched his entire career. His determination, drive and off-season physical conditioning were the stuff of legend. Adrian Peterson, more than the vast majority of RBs who ever played, has those similar traits. For that reason, my expectation is that Peterson will return to the NFL with a chip on his shoulder and he will make a statement.

I'm an engineer; I work with numbers and formulae, facts and figures (my first posts on this forum dealt with deflated footballs and the Ideal Gas Law). I get it that, by and large, RBs hit a wall after age 29. One can plot performance versus age on an x-y plot, do a regression analysis and plot the best-fit straight line, but there will be outliers on that plot. IMO, Peterson would be one of those outliers. Is it conjecture on my part? Sure it is. There will be no empirical data until after the 2015 season. Neither will we know if Melvin Gordon is an offensive ROY candidate or a huge bust out of Wisconsin until after the season. I think Gordon will be a fine NFL back. I think he is far from an Adrian Peterson, however. Even a 30 year old Adrian Peterson.

I don't know if you ever watched Sayers play. I also watched Payton's career - I'm not sure if you did. I see something special in the guy who wears no. 28 in Minnesota - something that makes me think of that which set Payton and Sayers apart from the rest during their respective careers. If Peterson is wearing no. 28 in Dallas in 2015-16, I think the Cowboys can add another Lombardi Trophy to their shelf at Valley Ranch.

I responded to you based on the RBs you mentioned. I'm not an NFL historian but I've watched the very best since I was a young boy who marveled at no. 40, the Kansas Comet. My gut tells me that if no. 28 is lining up next to no. 9 in the Cowboys backfield this year, the Cowboys will win their sixth SB.

Again, all of this is simply my opinion. I have been wrong in the past - many, many times - and could very well be wrong again.

Thank you.
 

mattjames2010

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I don't know how that proves their point. That means 1000 yards of Murray was before he even got hit, meaning more than 50% of his yards when you actually work through the numbers. Considering his work-load as well and the ability of the line to give him those holes, considering he was second-most in missed tackles is not surprising. He was getting to full speed early, meaning harder to take down. You also look at the fact that he was probably not anywhere near top home-run hitters, meaning potentially lots of yards left on the field.

They are trying to spin this into Murray, when it actually strengthens the point of the OL.

Nope, another myth. Murray averaged around what every other RB did with the "home run hitting".
 

JoeBoBBY

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Nope, another myth. Murray averaged around what every other RB did with the "home run hitting".

Yeah, but Murray had smith, fredbeard, and martin. And "gaping" wide open.....lanes to the endzone. With just a little more speed. They wouldve been TDs.
 

ActualCowboysFan

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I don't see where Minnesota loses, though. If someone offers you a 1st for AP, maybe. But if the offer isn't acceptable, you simply tell AP, "Either you play here or you play nowhere."

If AP sits, he doesn't get paid anything.

The Vikings have ALL the leverage. Teams have shown in the past they are willing to let players sit and stew rather than to acquiesce to a bad deal.

This is not accurate. Ask Jerry about who had the leverage when Rat and Orton sulked and who had to eat an astronomically worse deal.
 

big dog cowboy

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No, they don't have all the leverage. When a player doesn't want to play for you and you MAKE him.. that can be an ugly situation. Peterson could go out there and only give 50% if he wanted and there isn't anything they can do about it.

And the last time that happened was when?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I responded by discussing the backs in your post. I don't believe you mentioned Simpson or Dickerson - if you did, I apologize for overlooking them. In terms of greatest of all time, Dickerson is in my top 5. As great as Simpson was, IMO, I would take Peterson over him.

As for Dickerson, you are right: he did fall off a cliff at age 30. He had the most upright running style - even going through the hole - of any back I can remember. He was 6'3" with 4.4 speed, had 400 or more touches in five different seasons, and it could well be that he simply lost his legs after seven years of punishment. Dickerson was, for me, one of the three most spectacular backs to watch play (Sayers, Dorsett) because of his acceleration and explosiveness. Peterson is built more solidly and stronger pound-for-pound than Dickerson, runs with more of a lean, and dishes out a lot of punishment of his own, more so than Dickerson or Simpson ever did.

Tony Dorsett was smaller but did not take as much punishment because he was more elusive than Dickerson. Dorsett ran a 4.38 at age 34 in the Denver training camp. At 31, Dorsett had his third best rushing season with the Cowboys, and at 29-30 Dorsett had a combined 3256 yd from scrimmage. By age 32, Hershel Walker was there and TD was a part-time player. For a 190 lb speed back, Dorsett still was producing in is early 30s. Simpson had a dramatic drop-off at age 30, but he only had three spectacular seasons out of his nine in Buffalo (which is surprising given he had a very good O-line). His last year in Buffalo and two season in SF were far from memorable.

Gale Sayers played only 50 NFL games when he was healthy. Adrian Peterson returned from a serious knee injury in nine months and came within nine yards of the all-time rushing record. The difference may have been medical advances between 1968 and 2011. If medical technology was then what it is now, I believe Sayers would have been producing jaw-dropping highlights when he was 29, 30, 31. But we will never know. What we do know is that Peterson, like Gale, sustained a serious knee injury and then returned in record time to fall just short of making history. That tells me something about the man's character and grit, just as Sayers showed such grit and determination in 1968-69 when Brian Piccolo pushed Gale hard during rehab to return from what was then a simply devastating injury.

I don't know the reason(s) why Brown and Barry retired in their prime (perhaps you know more than I in that regard). I had heard Brown wanted to get into acting. Barry was just tired of playing, as I recall. Both had a lot of tread left on their tires.

You are squarely in the camp that believes since backs hit a wall at age 30, the Cowboys should stay clear of Adrian Peterson. Your determining factor is age. I point out that Gale Sayers left football at age 27 because he was born decades before orthopedic surgeons could arthroscopically repair mangled knees, and that two other HOFers were still performing at an All-Pro level at age 29 or 30. I point all this out to counter your statement that the very backs I refer to were over and done with by age 29, and yet you dismiss my rebuttal out of hand and accuse me of some sort of bias.

I brought up Walter Payton because I watched his entire career. His determination, drive and off-season physical conditioning were the stuff of legend. Adrian Peterson, more than the vast majority of RBs who ever played, has those similar traits. For that reason, my expectation is that Peterson will return to the NFL with a chip on his shoulder and he will make a statement.

I'm an engineer; I work with numbers and formulae, facts and figures (my first posts on this forum dealt with deflated footballs and the Ideal Gas Law). I get it that, by and large, RBs hit a wall after age 29. One can plot performance versus age on an x-y plot, do a regression analysis and plot the best-fit straight line, but there will be outliers on that plot. IMO, Peterson would be one of those outliers. Is it conjecture on my part? Sure it is. There will be no empirical data until after the 2015 season. Neither will we know if Melvin Gordon is an offensive ROY candidate or a huge bust out of Wisconsin until after the season. I think Gordon will be a fine NFL back. I think he is far from an Adrian Peterson, however. Even a 30 year old Adrian Peterson.

I don't know if you ever watched Sayers play. I also watched Payton's career - I'm not sure if you did. I see something special in the guy who wears no. 28 in Minnesota - something that makes me think of that which set Payton and Sayers apart from the rest during their respective careers. If Peterson is wearing no. 28 in Dallas in 2015-16, I think the Cowboys can add another Lombardi Trophy to their shelf at Valley Ranch.

I responded to you based on the RBs you mentioned. I'm not an NFL historian but I've watched the very best since I was a young boy who marveled at no. 40, the Kansas Comet. My gut tells me that if no. 28 is lining up next to no. 9 in the Cowboys backfield this year, the Cowboys will win their sixth SB.

Again, all of this is simply my opinion. I have been wrong in the past - many, many times - and could very well be wrong again.

Thank you.

I am not that old but I have watched games of Payton and Sayers from archives. Gordon actually reminds me of Sayers in how he can make cut after cut without losing speed. Sayers cutbacks were legendary for good reason.

I'm an engineer too and if I go to my boss and try to have him assemble something on the basis it is 'special' I would be told to come with something substantive.

AP's running style is much more similar to Dickerson than Emmitt, Sweetness, and Martin. He is high cut and tall. If he were low cut and didn't run through people like he does then I would agree with you a lot more. I am also not saying that he is certain to fail. I understand he is a tremendous physical specimen and a hard worker which goes a long way.

My point was that even HoF RB hit a wall and you cannot just discount that possibility. Instead of 'get him at all costs' I think you can intelligently evaluate risk. People like pointing out that rookies are risks and applying percentages but balk when looking at the percentages of RB at various ages. If you want to argue that my 28% figure should be closer to 40% then it still makes my case. AP is going to hit a wall eventually and you have to admit it is possible he already has at his age.

In general, I am skeptical of chasing names and think the best success is found by keeping your draft picks and continuing to draft well.
 

MichaelValentino

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Yeah, but Murray had smith, fredbeard, and martin. And "gaping" wide open.....lanes to the endzone. With just a little more speed. They wouldve been TDs.

I like Demarco Murray. I like him a lot and he had an amazing 2014 season. I'm not sure what his current 40 time is, or what Adrian Peterson's current 40 time is. But I do know that when I watch games, to me, Peterson has more functional football speed. He certainly is stronger and more explosive than Murray. But he also looks faster with pads on between the lines. Jerry Rice ran somewhere in the low 4.6s coming out of college. He did not do well with a stop watch. But with pads on, few guys seemed to be able to catch him. Murray doesn't have the kind of functional speed Peterson has shown throughout his entire career. Murray was terrific last year and as a Cowboys fan I was thrilled to have him. But, IMO, Peterson would have topped 2000 yards and 20 TDs behind our line last year.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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And the last time that happened was when?

This is not a common occurrence but the WR for the Seachickens made a stink and forced his way out. Favre created a stink to get out of Green Bay. In general teams cut players with huge salaries all the time. That is just off the top of my head.
 

JBS

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More and more smoke coming out about a possible peterson trade...before it was no way no how...now all of a sudden it's if this and if that....

He's going to be moved...the question is where
 

ActualCowboysFan

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Sure does but that isn't what happened.

Sure it is. His relationship became so strained with the team that they paid him to leave rather than risk him poisoning the locker room. He faked an injury to get out of playing and made a remarkable recovery once he got his way.
 
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