News: All Seven Rounds Of Dallas Cowboys 2016 Draft Board Rankings Possibly Revealed

[Stash]

I've always believed that if you just continue to re-stock the offensive and defensive lines in every draft, it's impossible to have a horrible team.

Smith and Frederick are the key. Martin was a fallback when they didn't get Aaron Donald, Anthony Barr, or Ryan Shazier. Collins was a godsend.

I'm with you for the most part, but I'm pointing out that we're constructed completely differently than recent Super Bowl winners.

 

[zrinkill]

And what is the point you're trying to make with these numbers?

I will speak slowly

....... This ........ defensive ......... coaching .........staff ........cannot ..........develop ..........players..........,even ........ premium (rounds 1-3) ........ pick ..........players.

Sorry if I was talking to fast.

 

[Sydla]

I heard you the first time.

Agree to disagree.

Add obtuse to the list of your skill sets.

 

[zrinkill]

obtuse

I will say it again ....... I don't even find guys attractive ....... except brainpaint of course.

 

[Stash]

I will speak slowly ....... This ........ coaching .........staff ........cannot ..........develop ..........players..........,even ........ premium (rounds 1-3) ........ pick ..........players.

Sorry if I was talking to fast.

Not "fast" , just nonsense.

You're alone on your island.

While nobody will deny that it's a factor, everyone will deny your absolute about it being the only factor.

 

[zrinkill]

You're alone on your island.

Do I still get the 3 websites?

 

[Stash]

Do I still get the 3 websites?

Absolutely! I'm not a total monster!

 

[zrinkill]

While nobody will deny that it's a factor, everyone will deny your absolute about it being the only factor.

So what untalented guys have we drafted on defense the last 5 years in rounds 1-4?

 

[Sydla]

I will speak slowly

....... This ........ defensive ......... coaching .........staff ........cannot ..........develop ..........players..........,even ........ premium (rounds 1-3) ........ pick ..........players.

Sorry if I was talking to fast.

Well in fairness, since Garrett has been here, their first round picks have been Smith, Frederick, Martin, Claiborne and Jones (won't include Elliott). Three are great players, one is a bust and the other was a rookie who looked good at times and poor at other times, which isn't unusual for a rookie.

So if you want to be specific, getting good players from the 1st round doesn't seem to be an issue. It's the next few rounds where they struggle. Some of it could be due to development, some of it is just poor player evaluations.

 

[zrinkill]

Well in fairness, since Garrett has been here, their first round picks have been Smith, Frederick, Martin, Claiborne and Jones (won't include Elliott). Three are great players, one is a bust and the other was a rookie who looked good at times and poor at other times, which isn't unusual for a rookie.

So if you want to be specific, getting good players from the 1st round doesn't seem to be an issue. It's the next few rounds where they struggle. Some of it could be due to development, some of it is just poor player evaluations.

I will ask you the same ....... what untalented guys have we drafted on defense the last 5 years in rounds 1-4?

 

[Sydla]

I will ask you the same ....... what untalented guys have we drafted on defense the last 5 years in rounds 1-4?

Webb was a reach. Johnson was a reach. Hitchens was a reach. Wilber was a reach. Hitchens is a prime example............ undersized, not particularly athletic, taken because of production numbers at Iowa. And as we see now in the NFL, he's nothing more than a serviceable backup/spot starter and the big reason for that is he lacks great NFL talent. Are you going to blame the coaching staff now for Hitchens not being the next Luke Keuchly?

None of those four were particularly talented kids.

Claiborne is arguably the one defender that we took that had oodles of talent that just didn't cut it. If you want to blame a lack of development on his part on the coaching staff, I won't necessarily quibble with that. But this idea that the Cowboys have drafted a crap ton of talent on defense in the last 5 drafts and it's gone wasted is laughable.

This defense is what it is because they haven't drafted particularly well on defense and they haven't done a great job coaching them.

 

[Stash]

So what untalented guys have we drafted on defense the last 5 years in rounds 1-4?

That depends on your subjective use of the word "untalented" I guess. The fact is that none of them have come through as well as the team had hoped, and some have outright bombed.

But you're trying to absolve the players of any role in that and attempting to pin any and all failure on the coaches. Takes two to tango.

I'm not a huge fan of this coaching staff either, believe me, but players play a part in their own struggles too.

 

[WillieBeamen]

In the last 5 drafts they have spent

2 - first round draft picks on the defense
3 - 2nd round draft picks on the defense
3 - 3rd round draft picks on the defense
6 - 4th round draft picks on the defense
1 - 5th round draft picks on the defense
3 - 6th round draft picks on the defense
7 - 7th round draft picks on the defense

25 picks on defense ..... 8 premium picks plus a very high talent DE in Hardy

In the last 5 years they have spent

3 - first round draft picks on the offense
1 - 2nd round draft picks on the offense
2 - 3rd round draft picks on the offense
1 - 4th round draft picks on the offense
3 - 5th round draft picks on the offense
3 - 6th round draft picks on the offense
2 - 7th round draft picks on the offense

15 picks on offense ...... 6 premium picks

And yet we continue to have one of the worst defenses in the league.

Shhh. I was told we NEEDED to go defense with our first pick, so we could win now with Romo

 

[zrinkill]

Webb was a reach. Johnson was a reach. Hitchens was a reach. Wilber was a reach.

So of the 14 guys drafted in rounds 1-4 , 4 of them were reaches ....... and the other 10 just sucked apparently since this coaching staff could not get anything out of them.

Got it ...... no talent so lets draft a safety with the number 4 pick in the draft.

 

[Sydla]

So of the 14 guys drafted in rounds 1-4 , 4 of them were reaches ....... and the other 10 just sucked apparently since this coaching staff could not get anything out of them.

Got it ...... no talent so lets draft a safety with the number 4 pick in the draft.

LOL. Still so obtuse. Let's look at the last 5 drafts, Rounds 1-4 on defense:

2 - first round draft picks on the defense
3 - 2nd round draft picks on the defense
3 - 3rd round draft picks on the defense
6 - 4th round draft picks on the defense

Well, first since one of the draft classes hasn't even played a down yet in the NFL, we can remove a second round, third round and 4th round pick from the totals above.

So that leaves now 11 defensive guys drafted in Rds 1-4. You can probably then throw out the 2015 draft because it's hard to make any judgments on rookies in the league, but from all indications, it appears Jones looks to be a decent player at worst. Wilson is a 4th round LB, so frankly, the fact he's a backup is probably his ceiling if you look at other 4th round LBs. Gregory was hurt for much of the year so saying he didn't develop is just idiocy at this point. We won't get an accurate gauge on him until later this year.

So now you are down to 8 defenders that you can really get an accurate feel on whether or not they have developed. Claiborne, Lawrence, Hitchens, Wilcox, Webb, Crawford, Wilbur, Johnson. So 3 of the 8 were just bad picks, Claiborne was a bust, Lawrence and Crawford are starters and Hitchens has basically reached his ceiling based on his talent and was Wilbur.

Let's change this. Please list for us all the uber talented kids taken in the first four rounds of the draft since 2012 that were let down simply by cruddy development?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

So a transcendent RB comes along every year? Great corners aren't found late in the draft? (Sherman and Norman were, in fact, 5th rounders.) Rookie corners routinely make huge impacts on teams?

What part is horribly wrong about what I said?

A) We don't know that Zeke is a transcendent rb. Talk about anointing oil.

B) Great corners are found everywhere in the draft. That's a strawman. What we know to be true is that rb talent falls further in the draft than any other position because it is the easiest position on the field to man competently.

C) The question shouldn't be who makes the most immediate impact on the field. Also nice try. You originally said corners font have big impacts on the game unless they are Deion. Now you're pretending you just mean rookies. But again that shouldn't matter.

D) The horribly wrong part of your post was only mainly your conclusion, your entire premise and supporting facts.

 

[zrinkill]

Let's change this. Please list for us all the uber talented kids taken in the first four rounds of the draft since 2012 that were let down simply by cruddy development?

Jones (moved him all over the place damaging his development), Wilson, Gregory, Claiborne, Lawrence (moving him around), Crawford (moving him around), Hitchens (moving him around).

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Did we spend a first round pick on a RB? Or pick a guy of the trash heap 8 years later?

Talk about weird logic.

It's the same logic still attaching Mo and a 1st round draft selection as a reason to skip out on Ramsey. It's stupidity desperately masked as deep thought.

 

[zrinkill]

stupidity desperately masked as deep thought.

Stupidity is making the same mistake over and over.

This team cannot develop defensive players ....... they develop Offensive players well.

Stupidity is also wanting to take a Safety with the 4th pick of the draft even before his knee surgery.

 

[Sydla]

Jones (moved him all over the place damaging his development), Wilson, Gregory, Claiborne, Lawrence (moving him around), Crawford (moving him around), Hitchens (moving him around).

- Claiborne was a bust. No question.

- Jones was a rookie. How the hell do we know he won't be a good player for us?

- Gregory got injured in his first game, mind you, he was actually putting pressure on the QB until he got hurt. He played sparingly when he came back because of the ankle. So writing him off as a development failure is laughable.

- Lawrence had 8 sacks his 2nd year. How exactly is he a development failure?

- Crawford is an interesting case but then again, it was discovered that he played last year with a bum shoulder that needed surgery. He might end up fitting into that category.

- Wilson is a 4th round LB who was a rookie. Did you expect him to come in and be a starter right away on a defense?

- Hitchens. This might be your silliest one yet. Hitchens is an undersized, not particularly athletic LB. His ceiling is what he is.......... a situational starter and flexible backup. Saying he wasn't developed into something much better is hilarious.

So basically what we have is you claiming 7 guys weren't developed........... yet 3 were rookies, one of which played OK, one of which was injured, one of which was a 4th round LB backing up Lee and McClain.................. another is a guy who isn't particularly talented but apparently you think should be a star in this league................... another is a guy coming off an 8 sack and very good 2nd season in the league and was arguably the team's best DE in 2015.................... another guy who was injured but you could be right on that wasn't developed properly................ and then one pure bust.