Chocolate Lab
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Neither is any other linebacker who ever lived. What's your point?kartr said:
Am I the only one underwhelmed by our draft?
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burmafrd
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LT's come along once in a generation if that- ANYONE thinking that there was one this year is smoking some of Q's stuff. Carpenter was exactly what BP wanted for the SOLB. THAT is clear. Fasano was what BP wanted to make the 2 TE- where BOTH TE's MUST BE RESPECTED BY THE D AS PASS CATCHERS- work. Hatcher was coveted by several teams and would have been gone any later. Green fixes a need at PR and just might turn into a good #3 WR. Watkins is by all accounts a steal and coulc very well be starting by the end of the season- or at least seeing quality time; how often can that be said for a 5th rdr? Stanly- just might be the #1 backup to Ferguson-may even see quality time as well- for a SIXTH RDR. This could be a VERY GOOD draft- not as flashy as last years- but almost as valuable.
The Answer
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The Answer thinks it doesn't make any sense to judge the 2006 draft yet considering that none of these players have even played a single down in the NFL.
Talk to me in 2 or 3 years and then we can make our evaluations. Until then it's best to view this draft through a philosophical perspective.
~The Answer
Talk to me in 2 or 3 years and then we can make our evaluations. Until then it's best to view this draft through a philosophical perspective.
~The Answer
AsthmaField
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I look at the draft in these terms:
Carpenter is exactly what the team needed at SOLB. He has all the skills needed to play that position in our 3-4 and will complement Ware exceedingly well. Having an athlete the caliber of Carpenter at SOLB instead of Al Singleton or Fujita will help the defense more than just about any other position we could've drafted on that side of the ball. Two good pass rushing OLB's exponentially increases the pressure on the offenses passing game over just one good pass rushing OLB. It doesn't just double how good the defense is... it increases it geometrically. We really needed someone there and Carpenter fits perfectly. Why wouldn't any Cowboy fan be thrilled with that, regardless of if he would've been there at pick #25 or not? We needed him and we got him... that should make Dallas fans happy.
Fasano was also a very good pick, IMO. From everything I've read, Fasano is a better reciever than Hannam, but Hannam can catch too. That gives us 3 TE's capable of being effective either blocking or recieving. That is something I think we about had to have and here's why.
If we're going to go to a primarily 2 TE set and want both TE's to be dangerous in the passing game, we need to have a little redundancy there. IOW, we need someone with at least Hannam's skills to step in if he or Witten goes down. We got that in Fasano.
Think about it. If a LB goes down... we simply plug another in. If a WR goes down, we just plug in another. If a RB goes down, we just plug in another. So forth and so on. They may have less skill but we don't have to change the scheme because of an injury.
However, if we are playing a system on offense that has to have two pass recieving TE's and one goes down... then you have to change the system unless you have another to plug in. There are plenty of teams that run some 2 TE sets... but as we're read, those teams only have one good recieving TE. The other is always a blocker primarily. That 2 TE scheme is very different fundementally from what we're wanting to do. With only 2 good TE's on the roster... if one gets hurt, then you have to change schematically what you're trying to do. That doesn't go for any other position.
Now, since Fasano is a better player than Hannam, the two starters will probably be Witten and Fasano. However, if either gets hurt, in comes Hannam and the offense continues, philisophically speaking, doing the same thing.
Without the 3rd good TE on the roster, one injury to either of the starting 2 TE's would result in a complete change in offensive philosophy. We'd have to go back to either having a FB... using 3 WR's... or using a 2 TE set that fundimentally has a different philosophy than what we want to do. A two TE set that doesn't put the pressure on defenses like the one we want to use. A two TE set that is much easier to defend and doesn't creat the mismatches that we want to dictate.
I can't think of any other position on the team where an injury would cause us to change the philosophy of what we want to do... and because of that, I think getting Fasano was critical if we wanted to commit to the 2 TE package as our base.
As for the other draft picks... Hatcher has such great phisical skills that he could very well turn out to be the best player we get out of this draft. He's a faster Marcus Spears. He's a more talented Chris Canty. Had he played at a major university like those two... I'm sure he would've gone round 1. He's exactly what a 3-4 DE should look like. He might not be the perfect fit for a 4-3 DE... but he's ideal for the 3-4.
Hatcher has great maturity and character. He's smart and a hard worker. And like Parcells said... he's one of the few people on this planet who is 6'6", 290 lbs. and can run around a 4.7, 40. If you play a 3-4, why in the world wouldn't you take that guy in the 3rd round? Apparently New England would take him. Heck, even New Orleans who is loaded at DE and runs a 4-3 was about to take him at the top of round 4.
Green should earn his paycheck on punt returns alone. His change of direction is so phenominal that I can't see him not having and impact on special teams. Most guys simply can't change direction as quickly as him... that's a huge thing on returns. Anything we get out of him at WR will be gravy. A solid 4th rounder if you ask me.
Watkins could be a very good FS. His height and jumping ability are rare and with his range, he could turn out to be something special. Will he? I don't know, but a 5th rounder is nothing to give up for the chance of hitting as big as we could on Watkins. If he doesn't pan out... oh well... plenty of 5th rounders don't. The thing is... if we hit on Watkins... it'll be a homerun because of his freakish size and range. I think there is a good chance we hit too.
Mantavious Stanley is exactly what a NT should be. He's almost impossible to move out and his energy and enthusiasm are great. I've read in more that one place that Stanley was a big reason that Elvis Dumerville got as many sacks as he did. He played very very well and if it wasn't for his torn pec muscle... he might've been drafted much, much higher. I think he steps immediately into a 3 man rotation at NT of Ferguson, Pepper Johnson and Stanley.
The two 7th rounders are like most 7th rounders... maybe a hit, maybe a miss. Time will tell on them.
Anyway, in closing a *long* post... I'm thrilled with how this draft fell for us. I can't imagine it falling any better with the picks that we had. If we really wanted to go to a base of two TE's, then we had to have Fasano to go along with Witten and Hannam. If we wanted our 3-4 to be complete and to be able to do what Pitt and NE do on defense we had to have a good SOLB... we got the second best LB for what we need in Carpenter. Only Hawk would've been better IMO. Carpenter can do everything we'll ask of our SOLB and do it well. Hatcher is a beast and he'll be a big help on a line that wants to rotate in fresh players and have options for a 4 man line. Returns are set with Green and FS has another very good candidate to upgrade it and with Coleman... we have a year to wait on Watkins. And Stanley, again will help the rotation.
Carpenter, Fasano, Hatcher, Green, Watkins and Stanley will almost certainly make the roster and all should either start or contribute this season. How many drafts can you say that about? Any team's drafts? Heck just getting two starters is good... much less getting two starters plus 4 other heavy contributers.
I loved it.
Carpenter is exactly what the team needed at SOLB. He has all the skills needed to play that position in our 3-4 and will complement Ware exceedingly well. Having an athlete the caliber of Carpenter at SOLB instead of Al Singleton or Fujita will help the defense more than just about any other position we could've drafted on that side of the ball. Two good pass rushing OLB's exponentially increases the pressure on the offenses passing game over just one good pass rushing OLB. It doesn't just double how good the defense is... it increases it geometrically. We really needed someone there and Carpenter fits perfectly. Why wouldn't any Cowboy fan be thrilled with that, regardless of if he would've been there at pick #25 or not? We needed him and we got him... that should make Dallas fans happy.
Fasano was also a very good pick, IMO. From everything I've read, Fasano is a better reciever than Hannam, but Hannam can catch too. That gives us 3 TE's capable of being effective either blocking or recieving. That is something I think we about had to have and here's why.
If we're going to go to a primarily 2 TE set and want both TE's to be dangerous in the passing game, we need to have a little redundancy there. IOW, we need someone with at least Hannam's skills to step in if he or Witten goes down. We got that in Fasano.
Think about it. If a LB goes down... we simply plug another in. If a WR goes down, we just plug in another. If a RB goes down, we just plug in another. So forth and so on. They may have less skill but we don't have to change the scheme because of an injury.
However, if we are playing a system on offense that has to have two pass recieving TE's and one goes down... then you have to change the system unless you have another to plug in. There are plenty of teams that run some 2 TE sets... but as we're read, those teams only have one good recieving TE. The other is always a blocker primarily. That 2 TE scheme is very different fundementally from what we're wanting to do. With only 2 good TE's on the roster... if one gets hurt, then you have to change schematically what you're trying to do. That doesn't go for any other position.
Now, since Fasano is a better player than Hannam, the two starters will probably be Witten and Fasano. However, if either gets hurt, in comes Hannam and the offense continues, philisophically speaking, doing the same thing.
Without the 3rd good TE on the roster, one injury to either of the starting 2 TE's would result in a complete change in offensive philosophy. We'd have to go back to either having a FB... using 3 WR's... or using a 2 TE set that fundimentally has a different philosophy than what we want to do. A two TE set that doesn't put the pressure on defenses like the one we want to use. A two TE set that is much easier to defend and doesn't creat the mismatches that we want to dictate.
I can't think of any other position on the team where an injury would cause us to change the philosophy of what we want to do... and because of that, I think getting Fasano was critical if we wanted to commit to the 2 TE package as our base.
As for the other draft picks... Hatcher has such great phisical skills that he could very well turn out to be the best player we get out of this draft. He's a faster Marcus Spears. He's a more talented Chris Canty. Had he played at a major university like those two... I'm sure he would've gone round 1. He's exactly what a 3-4 DE should look like. He might not be the perfect fit for a 4-3 DE... but he's ideal for the 3-4.
Hatcher has great maturity and character. He's smart and a hard worker. And like Parcells said... he's one of the few people on this planet who is 6'6", 290 lbs. and can run around a 4.7, 40. If you play a 3-4, why in the world wouldn't you take that guy in the 3rd round? Apparently New England would take him. Heck, even New Orleans who is loaded at DE and runs a 4-3 was about to take him at the top of round 4.
Green should earn his paycheck on punt returns alone. His change of direction is so phenominal that I can't see him not having and impact on special teams. Most guys simply can't change direction as quickly as him... that's a huge thing on returns. Anything we get out of him at WR will be gravy. A solid 4th rounder if you ask me.
Watkins could be a very good FS. His height and jumping ability are rare and with his range, he could turn out to be something special. Will he? I don't know, but a 5th rounder is nothing to give up for the chance of hitting as big as we could on Watkins. If he doesn't pan out... oh well... plenty of 5th rounders don't. The thing is... if we hit on Watkins... it'll be a homerun because of his freakish size and range. I think there is a good chance we hit too.
Mantavious Stanley is exactly what a NT should be. He's almost impossible to move out and his energy and enthusiasm are great. I've read in more that one place that Stanley was a big reason that Elvis Dumerville got as many sacks as he did. He played very very well and if it wasn't for his torn pec muscle... he might've been drafted much, much higher. I think he steps immediately into a 3 man rotation at NT of Ferguson, Pepper Johnson and Stanley.
The two 7th rounders are like most 7th rounders... maybe a hit, maybe a miss. Time will tell on them.
Anyway, in closing a *long* post... I'm thrilled with how this draft fell for us. I can't imagine it falling any better with the picks that we had. If we really wanted to go to a base of two TE's, then we had to have Fasano to go along with Witten and Hannam. If we wanted our 3-4 to be complete and to be able to do what Pitt and NE do on defense we had to have a good SOLB... we got the second best LB for what we need in Carpenter. Only Hawk would've been better IMO. Carpenter can do everything we'll ask of our SOLB and do it well. Hatcher is a beast and he'll be a big help on a line that wants to rotate in fresh players and have options for a 4 man line. Returns are set with Green and FS has another very good candidate to upgrade it and with Coleman... we have a year to wait on Watkins. And Stanley, again will help the rotation.
Carpenter, Fasano, Hatcher, Green, Watkins and Stanley will almost certainly make the roster and all should either start or contribute this season. How many drafts can you say that about? Any team's drafts? Heck just getting two starters is good... much less getting two starters plus 4 other heavy contributers.
I loved it.
The Realist
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I can't believe we passed on LT at 18.
dwmyers
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Qwickdraw said:
Where we could get linebackers changed when SF ended up with pick 22. They had lost 2 LB types and that changed the equation.
I was as big a proponent as anyone on trading down, but I understand why it didn't happen.
David.
jterrell
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I expected a fairly ho hum draft. Not that these guys can not play but picking 19th and picking BP players seldom lend to excitement.
I do like the draft from a standpoint of seeing the Boys plan play out. Hatcher is the only guy who didnt look like a designed selection. We should be able to do what we want offensively, with special teams and defensively based on the draft.
The OL thing is gonna be played up eternally but honestly this was regarded as a weak OL class after Ferguson and OL are slow developers. Its not like we are that old on the OL.
I do like the draft from a standpoint of seeing the Boys plan play out. Hatcher is the only guy who didnt look like a designed selection. We should be able to do what we want offensively, with special teams and defensively based on the draft.
The OL thing is gonna be played up eternally but honestly this was regarded as a weak OL class after Ferguson and OL are slow developers. Its not like we are that old on the OL.
MONT17
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speaking of teams that won 3 of the last 5 SBs didnt they sign guys like Duane Starks and Chad Brown.... maybe we should get those guys as well!
I'm not sure, but WHY would any team leak DRAFT INFO? unless they want people to think they are going after a guy from Grambling on the first day!
only Valley Ranch heads would buy that BS!
the pats just happen to draft for 3 OFFENSIVE WEAPONS... but I'm sure Hatcher will be missed considering SEYMOUR has lost a step or maybe they are going to 3 DE sets next year and the wanted Hatcher to be the man!
I think Raven fans say that the WR they got in the 4th round was a favorite of the PATS as well.... I guess that makes him a future PRO BOWLer as well!!!
sad
I'm not sure, but WHY would any team leak DRAFT INFO? unless they want people to think they are going after a guy from Grambling on the first day!
only Valley Ranch heads would buy that BS!
the pats just happen to draft for 3 OFFENSIVE WEAPONS... but I'm sure Hatcher will be missed considering SEYMOUR has lost a step or maybe they are going to 3 DE sets next year and the wanted Hatcher to be the man!
I think Raven fans say that the WR they got in the 4th round was a favorite of the PATS as well.... I guess that makes him a future PRO BOWLer as well!!!
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Simply put....yes he is. He will bring more to the passing game than any of those guys you listed will.Cogan said:
CrazyCowboy
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Hoov said:
Very well said......thanks know I don't have to write it!
AsthmaField
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MONT17 said:
It came out after we had already picked Hatcher, dipstick.
If you don't know something, don't comment on it. Dallas fans know the story, because we follow the team.
Who do you follow?
Bob Sacamano
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Qwickdraw said:
I don't know how you can say that, Carpenter ran a 4.6, on a bad knee, at 250+ pounds, Fasano was regarded as the most complete TE in the draft, Jacob Hatcher ran a 4.8 at 290, SKyler Green was one of the premier return prospects in this draft, Pat Watkins is a beast at 6'4" 210, running a 4.4, yeah, you could say the talent of EJ Whitley and Paul McQuistan is underwhelming, but they're 7th round Olinemen
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ABQCOWBOY said:
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superpunk said:
I think the pick has already been justified, they wanted to take a TE high in this draft, Hannam was insurance in case that didn't materialize, and a 2-TE offense means you need to have 4 TEs, Hannam is great depth, but I agree though, I still want to wait and see, but I think Fasano beats out Hannam and starts, in fact Jerry said he was a starter the moment he was drafted
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Sandyf said:
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superpunk said:
someone posted Hannam's scouting report, scouts INC, yes, I know, but it basically described him as a blocking TE
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lspain1 said:
and iceberg, just give us one example of a team counting on their rookie lineman, linemen, making their line better their rookie year, and they actually did it? please, just one example
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burmafrd said:
what many people are missing is that rookie Olineman have to get adjusted to the size and speed of the game, and many highly picked Olineman struggle, mightily, their 1st year in the league, hell Alex Barron, last year's top rookie Olineman was getting abused by Ware the last game of the season, Kosier and Pettiti will be much stronger than any rookie we could have drafted to play Oline