Anyone but skin homers really think

[Yakuza Rich]

Wow you did your research didnt you?
I dont have that time but i will put this out there.
2005 Commanders offense > 2004 Commanders Offense
With the addition of Satana Moss.

Absolutely. But Owens' sample size is much much larger. Sure, there's bound to be some things that worked in Owens' favor, but given the sample size it's safe to say he's had a profound positive impact on his QB's when it comes to his play on the field.

Moss *might* be the same way as well when all is said and done. However, the 2004 Skins offense featured Brunnell with a bad leg and Patrick Ramsey along with a banged up Portis in his first year in the system, Jon Jansen on I-R, a rookie in Chris Cooley, and Joe Gibbs making his first year back to the coaching ranks in 14 years.

Plus, I'd take what Moss had with Portis and Cooley than anything that Owens has had alongside him since 1998.


Rich..............
unless you think the world of JJ Stokes

 

[dargonking999]

I think almost every skins fan posting on here won't deny that Owens is better. Because the fact is, he is a better reciever. But you trying to say that he is head and shoulders above Moss is ridiculous. Why can't you just concede the fact that they are both great recievers in thier own respect? It's not hard to give respect to a player when he deserves it.

Anyway, I think what really needs to be looked at is the type of offenses that these two teams will be playing this year. Because they are both going to be playing two very different system, but both have the personnel to make them work out very well.

The skins will be playing mainly 3 and 4 WR sets. With the ammount of depth that we have at WR, that system should suite us very well.

The 'boys should be playing a 2 Wr 2 TE set(correct me if im wrong???). Since you all have better #1 and #2 than us, and two good TE's, this should work well for you all as well.

You see, it is almost pointless to argue the #1 and #2 slots for both teams, because in fact, both teams are playing very different systems. The Commanders depth should play great into thier offense, and the cowboys personnel should play great into thiers. Maybe we should just leave it at that?

this is why i say the Commanders will take a step back. You guys base your whole offense at staying healthy, if any of your WR,QB, or RB goes down, your entire offense is really screwed, because you suck at everything else.

 

[Vintage]

this is why i say the Commanders will take a step back. You guys base your whole offense at staying healthy, if any of your WR,QB, or RB goes down, your entire offense is really screwed, because you suck at everything else.

What happens if Bledsoe goes down for us this year?

Or Owens?

Or Glenn?

What happens to the Colts if Peyton goes down?

What happens to the Bengals if Palmer doesn't recover?

What happens to the Patriots if Brady gets injured?

 

[dargonking999]

What happens if Bledsoe goes down for us this year?

Or Owens?

Or Glenn?

What happens to the Colts if Peyton goes down?

What happens to the Bengals if Palmer doesn't recover?

What happens to the Patriots if Brady gets injured?

Difference

Bledsoe Peyton and Brady arent injury pronedlike Burnell.

Owens and glenn, wont really hurt as much seeing as how we arent running a 3 Wr, and 4 WR set.

Again you mistook my post

i said that because they strech the field with WR, it will hurt them if one goes down. and If there QB goes down because of the passing style of offense they want it will hurt them alot, and if portis goes down, who do they replace them with?

in peyton case they ahve a good backup in sorgi who can get it done based on how long he has to play

Palmer and Cinci im worried about because they let Kitna go

Again you should reahc beyond the first line in my post

 

[cowboywho?]

What happens if Bledsoe goes down for us this year?

Or Owens?

Or Glenn?

What happens to the Colts if Peyton goes down?

What happens to the Bengals if Palmer doesn't recover?

What happens to the Patriots if Brady gets injured?

Exactly losing a starter is always a step backward.
I dont see what the point is why we would take a step backward with injuries and you guys wont.

 

[dargonking999]

Exactly losing a starter is always a step backward.
I dont see what the point is why we would take a step backward with injuries and you guys wont.

never said wewouldnt, but you guys would be hurt more based on the offense you run. You guys dont have the abilty to relaly run another type of offense, because

1) you have a new OC who's gonna be probalyteaching one style so as not to over load them

2) you suck at anything else

 

[skinsngibbs4life]

What happens if Bledsoe goes down for us this year?

Or Owens?

Or Glenn?

What happens to the Colts if Peyton goes down?

What happens to the Bengals if Palmer doesn't recover?

What happens to the Patriots if Brady gets injured?

:worthy: thank you.

The fact is, injuries on any team, at any position can kill playoff hopes. On the Contrary, even if the skins do have an injury at the WR position, I have faith in our backups(unlike last year) to keep on producing. If our star runningback goes down, even though it would be a big blow, I have confidence in ladell betts or rock cartwright. Im more worried about an injury to brunell or our offensive line next season. IMO, if that happens, we are in serious trouble. Any other position, and I think we would probably be able to manage. PROBABLY.

 

[cowboywho?]

Difference

Bledsoe Peyton and Brady arent injury pronedlike Burnell.

Owens and glenn, wont really hurt as much seeing as how we arent running a 3 Wr, and 4 WR set.

Again you mistook my post

i said that because they strech the field with WR, it will hurt them if one goes down. and If there QB goes down because of the passing style of offense they want it will hurt them alot, and if portis goes down, who do they replace them with?

in peyton case they ahve a good backup in sorgi who can get it done based on how long he has to play

Palmer and Cinci im worried about because they let Kitna go

Again you should reahc beyond the first line in my post

If you havent notice but our WR depth and RB depth is our best depth.
As far as QB situation goes it goes the same for all other team. if their starting QB go down well... it just suck, not every team will have a freak backup QB like BEn and Brady.

 

[Vintage]

Difference

Bledsoe Peyton and Brady arent injury pronedlike Burnell.

Owens and glenn, wont really hurt as much seeing as how we arent running a 3 Wr, and 4 WR set.

Again you mistook my post

i said that because they strech the field with WR, it will hurt them if one goes down. and If there QB goes down because of the passing style of offense they want it will hurt them alot, and if portis goes down, who do they replace them with?

in peyton case they ahve a good backup in sorgi who can get it done based on how long he has to play

Palmer and Cinci im worried about because they let Kitna go

Again you should reahc beyond the first line in my post

Oh....so replacing Owens with Crayton wouldn't hurt us bec. we don't run 3 WR and 4 WR sets? Or Glenn with Crayton?

Gotcha.

How silly of me.

Portis isn't injury prone. So why did you suggest him going down? Ditto for Moss? The only one you could use that for is Brunell...but he played in all of the games last year.

Once again, your post made no sense.

Yet somehow, its my fault.

 

[TEK2000]

Throw the TD's into the mix and there is the differance.

Excellent point... there is a big difference when you throw TD's into the discussion.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Here is my analysis on Owens/Moss. Bear in mind, I feel Owens is a better reciever, but only slightly. All the stats I'm about to provide are from STATS, Inc.

Owens:
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=3664&Submit=Go

Moss:
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=5463&Submit=Go

Hands: Both recievers have been known to make amazing grabs in traffic, yet drop a pass that was unbelievably easy. The best thing about both is they usually make the catch in key situations or when the game is on the line. Both are even here. Statistically, in 2005 T.O. only dropped 5% of the total passes thrown to him compared to Moss' 6%. In 2004, T.O. dropped only 6% compared to Moss' 9%. Yet in 2003, T.O.'s highest total of passes thrown to him, he dropped 8% of them compared to Moss' 3%. Averaged out, T.O.'s average drop rate is 6.3% to Moss' 6%. Moss had the highest drop rate the last 3 seasons, yet Owens had the higher drop rate when you compare the season where both players were featured the most. It's a wash. EVEN.

Speed: This should unanimous, Moss is faster. Owens isn't slow by any means, yet Moss makes defenders look like old men sometimes. ADVANTAGE: MOSS

Strength: Owens can manhandle a DB at the line of scrimmage. It's almost impossible to jam him effectively. Which means so much to his ability to be where the QB wants him to be when he's supposed to be. Moss's strength comes mostly from his lower body, which makes him difficult to knock off balance at the line of scrimmage. He usually relies on his quickness to beat the jam anyway. ADVANTAGE: OWENS

Route-Running: As a Jet, Moss' route running was criticized routinely by Jets fans. Probably due to missing nearly his whole rookie season. As a Commander, Moss has been money on the skinny post, out routes and the button hook. Owens' most dangerous route is the quick slant, he can take a 3-5 yrd. slant to the house from nearly anywhere on the field. He's also average to very good at nearly every route a reciever would have to run, while Moss is only average when it comes to routes that take him over the middle. ADVANTAGE: OWENS

Yards After the Catch (YAC): This one really comes down to which type of plays each player showcases this ability the best in. T.O. can take a quick slant and turn it into a 60 yrd. TD. Moss could take a WR screen and take it to the house, which he did 2-3 times last season. Even when the defense knew the screen was coming, Moss still managed to get the 10 yards needed for a first down. ADVANTAGE: MOSS

Durability: Moss missed most of his rookie season with a torn ACL, since then he's only missed 2 games yet played injured for the Jets in 2004. Owens has missed 14 games (one more than Moss) in the same period of time, yet only 5 of those were due to injury. It should say something that Owens hasn't played a full season since 2001 and he's no spring chicken. I would give this to Moss, yet Owens broke a leg and healed quickly enough to play in the Superbowl, and play extremely well at that. It goes to Owens, but just barely. ADVANTAGE: OWENS

Overall, 3-2 Owens. If I missed anything please let me know, but I don't see how Owens is "much better" than Moss.

 

[dargonking999]

Oh....so replacing Owens with Crayton wouldn't hurt us bec. we don't run 3 WR and 4 WR sets? Or Glenn with Crayton?

Gotcha.

How silly of me.

Portis isn't injury prone. So why did you suggest him going down? Ditto for Moss? The only one you could use that for is Brunell...but he played in all of the games last year.

Once again, your post made no sense.

Yet somehow, its my fault.

No i didnt say Portis is injury prone, i said if he goes down they dontr have some one to replace them with.

I never siad it wouldnt hurt us

i siad IT WOULD NOT HURT AS MUCH. now hopefully you can read that

If we run Crayton and Owens and Glenn, and Copper then owens are glenn goes down, that relaly affects the offense, because no instead of two stud WR you basically get a number 2 and some 3 and 4 starting, not exactly effective.

Its your fault when you misread my post.

 

[dargonking999]

If you havent notice but our WR depth and RB depth is our best depth.
As far as QB situation goes it goes the same for all other team. if their starting QB go down well... it just suck, not every team will have a freak backup QB like BEn and Brady.

Really, i dont even know your backup RB

everyone knows the two behind JJ, if not they know at least one

 

[Gamebreaker]

Best reason I can give is Owens ability in the redzone, he is one of the toughest to defend and his size and strenght are much greater than Moss. Both Moss and Owens have speed to get deep but where Owens I feel is better is as you get down towards the goal line.

Good point. Redzone production is important. I don't know how many touchdowns Owens has scored in the redzone, but a third of Moss' touchdowns happened in the redzone.

 

[Vintage]

One of Owen's greatest strengths is YAC.

He sheds DB's....

 

[cowboywho?]

Really, i dont even know your backup RB

everyone knows the two behind JJ, if not they know at least one

Being known and being a reliable back is different.

...seriously

what have your two other "known" RB have ever done in this league that ours didnt?

 

[dargonking999]

:worthy: thank you.

The fact is, injuries on any team, at any position can kill playoff hopes. On the Contrary, even if the skins do have an injury at the WR position, I have faith in our backups(unlike last year) to keep on producing. If our star runningback goes down, even though it would be a big blow, I have confidence in ladell betts or rock cartwright. Im more worried about an injury to brunell or our offensive line next season. IMO, if that happens, we are in serious trouble. Any other position, and I think we would probably be able to manage. PROBABLY.

i never said it couldnt. I just said relying on your players to stay healthy for two years straight, in a new offense system, that requires more players to be on the field, and less protection for Burnell looks to be a disater for you guys. Everyone keeps making this like i said your the only team that is in trouble. I just merley stated the thinning of your depth by playing the systemyou are can come back to hurt you if a major player goes down. And you dont exaclty ahve the heathlest QB in league.

 

[skinsngibbs4life]

Owens and glenn, wont really hurt as much seeing as how we arent running a 3 Wr, and 4 WR set.

But we have more depth than you do. It is just as much of a problem for you if one of your WR's go down as if one of ours goes down because we have more choices on our roster to replace with.

, and if portis goes down, who do they replace them with?

Ladell Betts? Rock Cartwright? Mike Sellers? The two rookies that we drafted last year?

 

[dargonking999]

Being known and being a reliable back is different.

...seriously

what have your two other "known" RB have ever done in this league that ours didnt?

Started and produced

 

[WoodysGirl]

Difference

Bledsoe Peyton and Brady arent injury pronedlike Burnell.

But it took one shot to the chest to lose Bledsoe for the bulk of a season when he was w/the Pats. Injuries happen. Don't make Bledsoe out to be some superhuman that's incapable of being hurt. Bledsoe goes down, it's in Romo we trust.

Owens and glenn, wont really hurt as much seeing as how we arent running a 3 Wr, and 4 WR set.

Yeah it would. I mean, do you really want to have to trot out Crayton and/or Green if either of those two go down. The drop in talent is precipitous.

in peyton case they ahve a good backup in sorgi who can get it done based on how long he has to play

Sorgi doesn't scare anybody. He can't even go thru an offseason program w/more snaps. Because they're trying to keep Peyton's arm from being tired, they've been having Sorgi take more snaps and he's already on the training table from arm soreness.