Are we going to be able to build a super bowl contender w/ Jayon and LVE?

[Haimerej]

With the players we have on defense we're better suited running the 3-4. Because LVE and J.Smith need three DT's in front of them to stop the run.

So I say we trade DLaw, then make Anae and Gregory our 3-4 outside linebackers (putting LVE and JSmith inside). Gallimore and Hill could be our starting DE's in the 3-4, with another big body like Marvin Wilson at NT.

Because if are moving forward with these two guys at LB in the 4-3, we'll never have a top ten defense against the run. And if you can't stop the run, you can't stop anything else.

Weird. They played the 4-3 in 2018 and were top 5 against the run. Ranked 11th in 2019.

Neither one of those guys performed anywhere close to their previous form in a 3-4. The problem is both of them are better suited at WLB in a 4-3.

 

[Cebrin]

I'll trade them both & a 2nd for #45 Bucs

That's not Tom Bradys jersey number

 

[kskboys]

they've led a top 10 defense before they can do it again

but if they play like they did last year i'd trade both.......they were absolutely 2 of the worst linebackers in the NFL idk if it was scheme or what but they were awful and the DT play made it much worse to look at

They didn't lead it. Sean Lee played all 16 games. Quinn had double digit sacks, and Malik Collins, Christian Covington, Antwon Woods, and Michael Bennett formed a nice rotation at DT. LVE got hurt after 9 games, and Jaylon, even though he had a high number of tackles, did not play all that well.

 

[Haimerej]

They didn't lead it. Sean Lee played all 16 games. Quinn had double digit sacks, and Malik Collins, Christian Covington, Antwon Woods, and Michael Bennett formed a nice rotation at DT. LVE got hurt after 9 games, and Jaylon, even though he had a high number of tackles, did not play all that well.

2018 the defense was #7.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Serious question. Logically, I'd say we almost have to dump both and start over at the LB position before we can build a super bowl D. Can those guys be a part of a top 5 D? Serious doubts here.

I give it a serious laugh, me lad.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Ummm.............No, they both suck. We need to beef up the interior line AND find 3 new linebackers. Wont happen in one year. 2 maybe 3 years until we can realistically have a top 5 D.

In 3 years our O will be average and on the decline.

 

[cowboyec]

if we properly address our interior upfront and stop neglecting that "poor ol' safety position"...i think so.
we need to do at DT what we have done at DE.
will they?
i hope so.

 

[Robster8989]

Question: Does anybody think Jaylon or LVE is a dawg?

The middle of the Cowboys defense is fragile and punch drunk. They have to bring in an anchor at NT first and foremost...then they need a true MLB, and last an enforcer at SS. Also a 3T is in order for the middle too. Nothing I saw from Gallimore or Hill would stop me from signing/drafting anyone.

Two cents: Jaylon and LVE aren't tough enough to be MLB...they WILL backers.

I agree with you about them not being Mikes.
LVE is perfect for MIKE, but unfortunately, is made of glass, and the position requires a true warrior who does not get hurt.and JS just doesn't appear to have the instincts/IQ to be a Mike.
One of the main reasons our D was so bad last year was JS as Mike. Dude just does not have the instincts or football IQ for the position. Watch a great Mike, like Luke Kuechly, and then watch Jaylon. On a misdirection play, LK might lean to the fake side, but he follows the ball and recovers quickly, and attacks the ball downhill, resulting in a tackle made near the line of scrimmage. Jaylon completely losses the ball, takes 2-3 steps in the direction of the fake, and is then forced to turn and run down the ball downfield, which is why he makes so many tackles 5-10 yeards past the line of scrimmage.
But neither is suitable for Will either. They cannot run and cover well enough.
There was a time in the NFL when a LB who just wasn't big and strong enought for Mike or Sam would just be a Will. But this is no longer the case in the modern NFL. Will is a specialized position and requires a specialized player. A modern will is almost more of a big SS, than a small LB.
A Will needs to be able to run down plays from the weakside (which JS can do), but also needs to be able to cover RB's and even slot receivers to some extent, and JS cannot do that (at least cannot do it well enough evidenced by his completion and passer rating % numbers)
Couple of excellent Will prospects in the draft (Koramoah and Bolton), would be great fits for the Coyboys.
Problem is, with so many holes, it's doubtful we can fill them all, and we likely have more pressing needs than Will to address early in the draft.

 

[FVSTONE]

Chill man they both are fine, we need to beef up the interior line

Chill????? Are you serious? JS has to be the most clueless backer in the league, he has a serious reading ability on the field. He's constantly hitting the wrong hole when he's hunting for the RB and average TEs make him look r@#$%ed when he's trying to stay with them. ESPN has him ranked number 2 in tackles in 2020 and just think what type of backer he would be if he had real skills. He doesn't have the skills to be an affective starting backer in this league. As for LVE, he's turning into a broke down liability when he's out there. He has real football talent and knowledge, but when you're constantly standing on the sidelines because of injuries he's not doing the Boys any good. He's a big dude with speed, but in this league you have to have heart and a meanness steak within ya and that's something you're born with and unfortunately for the Boys he doesn't have it. Release JS and let LVE walk..................

 

[Sarge]

Serious question. Logically, I'd say we almost have to dump both and start over at the LB position before we can build a super bowl D. Can those guys be a part of a top 5 D? Serious doubts here.

Absolutely 100% not.

 

[Typhus]

I agree with you about them not being Mikes.
LVE is perfect for MIKE, but unfortunately, is made of glass, and the position requires a true warrior who does not get hurt.and JS just doesn't appear to have the instincts/IQ to be a Mike.
One of the main reasons our D was so bad last year was JS as Mike. Dude just does not have the instincts or football IQ for the position. Watch a great Mike, like Luke Kuechly, and then watch Jaylon. On a misdirection play, LK might lean to the fake side, but he follows the ball and recovers quickly, and attacks the ball downhill, resulting in a tackle made near the line of scrimmage. Jaylon completely losses the ball, takes 2-3 steps in the direction of the fake, and is then forced to turn and run down the ball downfield, which is why he makes so many tackles 5-10 yeards past the line of scrimmage.
But neither is suitable for Will either. They cannot run and cover well enough.
There was a time in the NFL when a LB who just wasn't big and strong enought for Mike or Sam would just be a Will. But this is no longer the case in the modern NFL. Will is a specialized position and requires a specialized player. A modern will is almost more of a big SS, than a small LB.
A Will needs to be able to run down plays from the weakside (which JS can do), but also needs to be able to cover RB's and even slot receivers to some extent, and JS cannot do that (at least cannot do it well enough evidenced by his completion and passer rating % numbers)
Couple of excellent Will prospects in the draft (Koramoah and Bolton), would be great fits for the Coyboys.
Problem is, with so many holes, it's doubtful we can fill them all, and we likely have more pressing needs than Will to address early in the draft.

nice first post,, welcome to the house

 

[Robster8989]

nice first post,, welcome to the house

Appreciate it man.
Good to be in the house.

 

[Kwyn]

Serious question. Logically, I'd say we almost have to dump both and start over at the LB position before we can build a super bowl D. Can those guys be a part of a top 5 D? Serious doubts here.

We won a super bowl with Robert Jones and Vinson Smith starting at LB

 

[Mr_437]

I agree with you about them not being Mikes.
LVE is perfect for MIKE, but unfortunately, is made of glass, and the position requires a true warrior who does not get hurt.and JS just doesn't appear to have the instincts/IQ to be a Mike.
One of the main reasons our D was so bad last year was JS as Mike. Dude just does not have the instincts or football IQ for the position. Watch a great Mike, like Luke Kuechly, and then watch Jaylon. On a misdirection play, LK might lean to the fake side, but he follows the ball and recovers quickly, and attacks the ball downhill, resulting in a tackle made near the line of scrimmage. Jaylon completely losses the ball, takes 2-3 steps in the direction of the fake, and is then forced to turn and run down the ball downfield, which is why he makes so many tackles 5-10 yeards past the line of scrimmage.
But neither is suitable for Will either. They cannot run and cover well enough.
There was a time in the NFL when a LB who just wasn't big and strong enought for Mike or Sam would just be a Will. But this is no longer the case in the modern NFL. Will is a specialized position and requires a specialized player. A modern will is almost more of a big SS, than a small LB.
A Will needs to be able to run down plays from the weakside (which JS can do), but also needs to be able to cover RB's and even slot receivers to some extent, and JS cannot do that (at least cannot do it well enough evidenced by his completion and passer rating % numbers)
Couple of excellent Will prospects in the draft (Koramoah and Bolton), would be great fits for the Coyboys.
Problem is, with so many holes, it's doubtful we can fill them all, and we likely have more pressing needs than Will to address early in the draft.

Good post. My only disagreement is that LVE can't play WILL. I think he can cover well enough and run down plays. However, with Jaylon it's tough to find a position for him to thrive considering his mental and physical limitations. Guys like JOK are new age WILLs and Dan Quinn probably likes that type of player considering he drafted Deion Jones.

 

[Robster8989]

Good post. My only disagreement is that LVE can't play WILL. I think he can cover well enough and run down plays. However, with Jaylon it's tough to find a position for him to thrive considering his mental and physical limitations. Guys like JOK are new age WILLs and Dan Quinn probably likes that type of player considering he drafted Deion Jones.

I do see your point. LVE is solid in coverage and can certainly run down plays.
I guess with a moden NFL Will, I just want a cover specialist, and I while I think LVE can cover at Mike, he is less suited to cover at Will, but you're right in that he can play the position. But then again the injury bug arises.
I just remember the glory days, with the Darren/Darrin combo (Woodson and Smith).
It was like we had 4 LB's on the field for run plays, and 3 safetys on the field for pass plays.
One of the (many) reasons that team was so good.
I really like a Will who is essentially a big safety (at least in today's game), and a Mike who can do it all (great instincts to play the run, and athletic enough to cover). I think LVE is terrific, I just think we are looking at a long term Sean Lee situation there, with him being unavailable more than he is available. I love Lee, but I'm not sure I want to put myself through that again.

 

[Mannix]

------Chill man they both are fine, we need to beef up the interior line

They are both trash!

 

[kskboys]

I give it a serious laugh, me lad.

I don't know what you mean.

 

[kskboys]

We won a super bowl with Robert Jones and Vinson Smith starting at LB

Solid players. Not injury prone.

 

[jaythecowboy]

We can if we shore up the secondary and dline. Especially since we are an offensive focused team. We only need an ok defense that can make timely stops.

 

[kskboys]

We can if we shore up the secondary and dline. Especially since we are an offensive focused team. We only need an ok defense that can make timely stops.

OK D's don't make timely stops.