Audio: Jerry Jones lays down the law!!!

[Yakuza Rich]

That's not what I meant DC, I wasn't comparing sports or number of years, just facts. Jerry did buy the team after 25 years away from football and built a champion in 4 years.

Obviously he had help but he did do it.

Not only that, Jimmy had never coached in the NFL game before nor played in the NFL. How many coaches who have never seen any time in the NFL as a player or as a coach have had success when they became a HC in the league?




YAKUZA

 

[Dodger12]

Then what would've happened had we drafted Mandarich over Aikman and made Steve Walsh the starting QB?

You cling to that position even though it's so blatently incorrect I don't know where to begin. Let me ask you this, if Jerry saved the franchise with this supposed decision (ie: Aikman over Walsh), then why did he, the keen GM who ran things back then the same way he does now, allow the Walsh pick to begin with? The Walsh pick, in the supplemental draft, of all places, even after we just drafted our QB #1 overall a couple of months earlier, should tell you all you need to know about who was running the show.

Could it be that Jimmy (and Jerry) knew we were going to have to rebuild. I have no doubt both Jerry and Jimmy realized that rebuilding started with a #1 QB, not an OL. Jimmy didn't care if it was Troy or Walsh; he wanted a winner and he finally settled on Aikman. Jimmy was far from perfect and he made his share of mistakes, but the Mandarich over Aikman is complete BS.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedcont...2189draft.html

QUOTE: "Troy has the talent to take the Cowboys back to where we all want them to be," said Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson. "You'd be amazed at what some of the teams were willing to give up (in a trade) for Troy. But we've known that this was our guy."

Johnson said he never really considered trading Aikman or drafting another player. But he thought that listening to trade offers would be good experience for a rookie NFL coach. And Johnson wanted to keep quiet until Jones could get Aikman signed.

Johnson made up his mind the weekend of March 17-19, when he worked out Aikman in Los Angeles.

"We knew without question that Troy Aikman was our guy when we got back on the plane after the workout at UCLA," Johnson said.

Said Jones: "When Jimmy called me and said, "Man, you should see him," I just raised up and yelled into the phone, I was so excited. There was no decision to make here." END QUOTE

Yes, this sounds like a couple of guys who were all torn up and indecisive over the decision.

 

[Doomsay]

I agree with the distorted thinking on the generalized statements that serve an agenda.

Again you assume it's Jason the next HC. You have zero idea knowledge that Jason is actually going to be the next HC and no one but Jerry knows when and if there will be a new HC soon.

Jason was brought in ahead of Wade to be the next HC. This "assistant HC" was being groomed for the top job, those plans might be off after last year, but a coaching structure of 2 independent equals reporting to Jerry was established for Jason's benefit and was to the detriment of Wade's authority. Where Jerry goes with it is anyone's guess. The point is that Wade was brought into a Jerry conceived coaching matrix w/o any ultimate authority. Next year's HC is irrelevant to the discussion.

I don't see Wade as weak-willed. That's another assumption. I do see him as not caring one bit for the lime lite. I'll give you that Jerry hates not being the spokesperson for the franchise. That rubbed Jerry real raw when Bill was here. But not every HC cares a ding dong what the owner does as long as he gets to coach the way he wants.

A guy who says that he is going to get tough and then giggles about the fact that it is not in his nature and a guy who takes responsibility for TO's celebration PF's is weak willed. I don't think that too many in the NFL see Wade as a strong willed coach.

I will give you this. Jerry needs to take a long hard look at his remaining years and decide if someone else can be a better GM. And I think the only viable and realistic candidate is Stephen. I don't see Jerry bypassing his son. But it's painfully obvious that Jerry is not going to step down completely until some day in the distant future.

As the song goes: Get over it. Be happy.

The song goes: "don't worry, be happy"

As long as people argue that Jerry is a good GM, I'll happily challenge that proposition, nothing could be a more elemental factor in this team's future sucess than having a real GM and an empowered coach. Nobody can defend Jerry's record without Jimmy or Bill, no agenda, just the unvarnished truth.

 

[yimyammer]

My wish isn't necessarily that Jones step down and become uninvolved. He has to know way more now than he ever has.

I just want him to realize he isn't solely responsible for the 3 Super Bowls nor would he be solely responsible if Dallas were to win another one with him at the helm. I want him to quit insulting peoples intelligence by spinning the facts/history in his favor.

Quit hiring extremes in the head coaching position. Find a good coach, respect their expertise, empower them, work with them & give credit where credit is due (this applies to the coach as well). He needs to find a coach who isn't such an egomaniac (unlike Parcells & Jimmy) so they can share the lime light with Jerry and above all else promote & build the team first concept.

If the Cowboys ever get back to the promised land, it won't be because of one person. It will take a team approach from top to bottom (or a hell of a lot of luck, which can't be sustained).

Win and everyone benefits because winning is like the tide, it raises all boats

 

[Doomsay]

He wasn't. I made that part up.

:laugh2:

bastid

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You cling to that position even though it's so blatently incorrect I don't know where to begin. Let me ask you this, if Jerry saved the franchise with this supposed decision (ie: Aikman over Walsh), then why did he, the keen GM who ran things back then the same way he does now, allow the Walsh pick to begin with?

Myself and jterrell have already explained it.

Jimmy has also stated that he wanted Mandarich, but they saw Troy work out and he was already the guy that Landry wanted and Jimmy was impressed with him so much that he said 'we would've never lost a game at U. of Miami with Troy and would've won each game by at least 50 points.'

But after the rookie season Jimmy clearly changed his tune on the subject and thought Troy couldn't win the big one and that Walsh, the QB that got Dallas' only win in '89, was his guy. Jimmy gave it a vote to his coaching staff who was in favor of Troy and it really didn't matter because Jerry wanted Troy as well.

It's the worst kept secret in the Cowboys organization at the time. Jimmy also didn't want Emmitt, instead wanting to get Baylor LB James Francis and was behind David Shula as the O-C until Jerry went to Ernie Zampese who suggested Norv to him.

Jerry has ALWAYS been keen on giving his HC *some* of the players that they want. Gailey wanted two big time WR's and liked Ismail and Galloway, and got his wish. Campo wanted a defense first team, so he got him Glover, Kevin Hardy, drafted Roy Williams (safety), etc.

Parcells wanted Testeverde, Dan Campbell, Donald Mitchell, Keyshawn, Terry Glenn, etc. and got them from Jerry.

So it's no big shock that if Jimmy wanted Walsh that Jerry would get him.

Do you really think Jerry wanted Walsh? Do you really think that Jimmy never thought that Walsh, who was a pretty decent prospect at the time and was HIS guy at the U, simply could not do the job when they drafted him?

Jimmy point blank stated that he didn't think Troy could win the big game after his rookie season because he struggled with it at UCLA and not winning one single game in '89 didn't help his opinion of Troy.





YAKUZA

 

[Dodger12]

Myself and jterrell have already explained it.

Jimmy has also stated that he wanted Mandarich, but they saw Troy work out and he was already the guy that Landry wanted and Jimmy was impressed with him so much that he said 'we would've never lost a game at U. of Miami with Troy and would've won each game by at least 50 points.'

But after the rookie season Jimmy clearly changed his tune on the subject and thought Troy couldn't win the big one and that Walsh, the QB that got Dallas' only win in '89, was his guy. Jimmy gave it a vote to his coaching staff who was in favor of Troy and it really didn't matter because Jerry wanted Troy as well.

This is far different than your previous post that made it sound like Jimmy wanted Mandarich but Jerry over ruled him. But maybe it's just the way I took it or misunderstood what you were saying or implying.

And I have no problem with a coach who may not be sold on a player, even a #1 pick, especially if it's for something as important as the QB would be to the franchise.

 

[dcfanatic]

bastid

NO. I didn't make it up.

He gets to talking about Ogeltree in the first two minutes of the interview.

I don't know what that other dude was listening to.

I was joking about making it up because some folks say I make stuff up even though I provide audio and video most of the time, lol.

:laugh2:

Happy Halloween!

 

[gimmesix]

So you think the majority of Cowboys fans want Jerry Jones deciding who's going to play on Sunday as opposed to the actual football coaches making those decisions?

So you think Jerry Jones doesn't listen to the actual football coaches before making "decisions" on who's going to play on Sunday? Do you really think Kevin Ogletree would be active for Sunday's game if the coaches absolutely did not want him to be?

If you do, you're delusional.

 

[jobberone]

Jason was brought in ahead of Wade to be the next HC. This "assistant HC" was being groomed for the top job, those plans might be off after last year, but a coaching structure of 2 independent equals reporting to Jerry was established for Jason's benefit and was to the detriment of Wade's authority. Where Jerry goes with it is anyone's guess. The point is that Wade was brought into a Jerry conceived coaching matrix w/o any ultimate authority. Next year's HC is irrelevant to the discussion.

No, Jason was not brought in to be the next HC. He was hired as the OC and given consideration for the HCing job which was given to Wade. And it was the right decision at the time. We needed continuity on defense and continued improvement. We're still working on the 3-4 transition. We don't know who might be the next HC nor when that will occur. As Jerry has stated there is no reason to replace the HC. And you continue to make assertions as if they are fact when its just your interpretation and one of several assumptions that could be made. There is no way for you to state as fact that Jerry brought Wade in here to be a puppet. That is a strawman argument. The facts are Wade is the HC, Jason is the asst HC and they are the DC and OC respectively. The rest is your self fulfilling prophecy. Again you espouse that Wade has no authority when facts speak differently. Are you saying Wade has to check everything with the GM/owner before making any decisions? If not then your assumptions are false. I could go on but you get the point or do you?



A guy who says that he is going to get tough and then giggles about the fact that it is not in his nature and a guy who takes responsibility for TO's celebration PF's is weak willed. I don't think that too many in the NFL see Wade as a strong willed coach.

This is so weak it doesn't deserve a response. We've seen him fine players. He's asked for increasing fines which shows he can be tougher. This is a distracting tactic from the real initial argument anyway. I will state that again you make an assumption you know what the rest of the NFL thinks about Wade which is impossible for you to know. More mind reading from afar thru the computer or is it telepathy. Are you a muto?



The song goes: "don't worry, be happy" Yeah I abbreviated it. And I don't do reggae.

As long as people argue that Jerry is a good GM, I'll happily challenge that proposition, nothing could be a more elemental factor in this team's future sucess than having a real GM and an empowered coach. Nobody can defend Jerry's record without Jimmy or Bill, no agenda, just the unvarnished truth.

It's your prerogative to argue your point of view but you keep espousing your opinions as if they are fact when you can't possibly know any of it as fact. Can we spell agenda driven boys and girls. And I haven't argued Jerry is a good or bad GM. I just keep shooting holes in your assumptions and ergo your arguments. Define real GM and prove Jerry is not a real GM. Good luck with that without using your faulty assumptions. No one here knows one iota on what goes on behind the scenes. You get spoon fed audio and video bites and brief comments to directed questions then don't use them in context with Jerry's volumes of other conversations with the public. And that's just what Jerry gives up publicly. You aren't qualified to decide what's a good GM since you know nothing about the job besides an abbreviated preface to the job. And your unvarnished truth is just that; your version of the truth which is riddled with errors and unproven theories and assumptions.

Jerry is neither the controlling megalomaniac with his hand in all the cookie jars nor is he completely innocent of some meddling. Again the truth lies somewhere in the middle rather than some extreme paranoid schzoid conspiracy theory.

 

[Doomsay]

It's your prerogative to argue your point of view but you keep espousing your opinions as if they are fact when you can't possibly know any of it as fact. Can we spell agenda driven boys and girls. And I haven't argued Jerry is a good or bad GM. I just keep shooting holes in your assumptions and ergo your arguments. Define real GM and prove Jerry is not a real GM. Good luck with that without using your faulty assumptions. No one here knows one iota on what goes on behind the scenes. You get spoon fed audio and video bites and brief comments to directed questions then don't use them in context with Jerry's volumes of other conversations with the public. And that's just what Jerry gives up publicly. You aren't qualified to decide what's a good GM since you know nothing about the job besides an abbreviated preface to the job. And your unvarnished truth is just that; your version of the truth which is riddled with errors and unproven theories and assumptions.

Jerry is neither the controlling megalomaniac with his hand in all the cookie jars nor is he completely innocent of some meddling. Again the truth lies somewhere in the middle rather than some extreme paranoid schzoid conspiracy theory.

A real GM hires real coaches and doesn't undermine their relationship with the players.

You talk a lot but don't really seem to say anything as far as I can tell. No paranoia here, just obvious take aways from Jerry's misadventures with unqualified coaches. You don't have to be privy to every internal nuance to understand the difference between unfettered Jerry and Jerry matched with a coach with some degree of spine. Justify his record with not-ready-for- prime-time-coaches, and perhaps we've got something to talk about.

The only thing that you've been "shooting" here are blanks. Taking refuge in the "nobody really knows what's going on" arguement really doesn't lend itself to having to many discussions on the team other than what we see on Sundays.

 

[8FOR!3]

When asked about our 13 year playoff win drought, he mentioned our previous 3 Superbowls of the 90's and he also mentioned that bringing in BP didn't get us a Superbowl either.

Did he mention how Jimmy Johnson DID?

 

[Dodger12]

It's your prerogative to argue your point of view but you keep espousing your opinions as if they are fact when you can't possibly know any of it as fact.

No one here knows one iota on what goes on behind the scenes.

You aren't qualified to decide what's a good GM since you know nothing about the job besides an abbreviated preface to the job. And your unvarnished truth is just that; your version of the truth which is riddled with errors and unproven theories and assumptions.

Jerry is neither the controlling megalomaniac with his hand in all the cookie jars nor is he completely innocent of some meddling. Again the truth lies somewhere in the middle rather than some extreme paranoid schzoid conspiracy theory.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people are critical of another poster's opinions because it can't possibly be the truth and/or they don't know what goes on behind closed doors, yet go on to give his/her own opinion and claims it to be the truth.

By your own standard, you can't possibly know whether Jerry's a controlling meglomaniac unless you've either worked for the man or sat in the same room during staff meetings. You talk of sound bites and taking Jerry's own words out of context yet refuse to see or accept what many fans feel is overwhelming evidence of his incompetence as GM.

The sad reality is that we as fans have come to accept a lower standard of what we define as success for this team by just hoping to win a playoff game. Our expectations have been tempered. This team was once measured by Superbowls and competing for them. That's probably the biggest indictment of what jerry has done to this team and it's fan base, IMO.

 

[yimyammer]

The problem with Jerry isn't the way he does things, the problem is the way he has done things over the last 13 years hasn't produced the results we all as fans wants, playoff and Super Bowl wins.

I don't think anyone would criticize the way he does things if it had produced the wins everyone wants.

I can't tell you how much I wish Jerry's unorhidox ways worked because it would put us miles ahead of other organizations who don't have owners who also act as GMs

 

[Jed_70]

Seriously, if you don't like it I can't fathom why you would still root for the team and watch the games because all you're doing is keeping Jerry as the GM and Owner.


YAKUZA

I was born and raised in Texas and still live there. I've been a Cowboy fan all my life. Well before Jerry came on the scene. I grew up idolizing the players of the late 70s and early 80s.

Fortunately for me I don't have to spend money to watch the Cowboys. I live in a Cowboys market so I don't have to give Jerry money to follow the team. I don't spend money on Sunday Ticket or to attend games. I watch them for free.

The only money and support Jerry sees from me is whatever percentage of money that is funneled to owners as part of the tv network deals.

Other than that he receives nothing from me. I don't buy jerseys, hats, etc.

However, I think we can all agree that you'd be hard pressed to find another team in the league that would take Jerry Jones over their current GM.

 

[Jed_70]

The problem with Jerry isn't the way he does things, the problem is the way he has done things over the last 13 years hasn't produced the results we all as fans wants, playoff and Super Bowl wins.

I don't think anyone would criticize the way he does things if it had produced the wins everyone wants.

I can't tell you how much I wish Jerry's unorhidox ways worked because it would put us miles ahead of other organizations who don't have owners who also act as GMs

Anyone know of any other teams besides the Cowboys, Bengals and Raiders where the owner doubles as the GM?

That's some bad company to keep if that's all that's out there.

If I were an owner I'd mimic what the teams winning and playing for championships are doing. I'd sign the checks and step back and enjoy the show.

 

[dcfanatic]

So you think Jerry Jones doesn't listen to the actual football coaches before making "decisions" on who's going to play on Sunday? Do you really think Kevin Ogletree would be active for Sunday's game if the coaches absolutely did not want him to be?

If you do, you're delusional.

Really. I am delusional?

Or you are hard of hearing...

Listen to this gimmesix

DO YOU HEAR THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF HIS MOUTH ???

What do the word 'frequently' mean?

Jerry has been talking up Ogeltree for three weeks now. He likes what he's seeing on film and what he's seeing practice. And don't say Jerry isn't watching all that becaus he's already made statements about watching film and attending meetings.

Do the coaches agree with him on Ogletree? Maybe.

And it's not like Jerry is going crazy and saying that he wants Ogletree starting opposite Miles Austin, but he's making sure people know he's got his eye on the kid and he has high hopes for him.

The point is that this coaching staff knows the deal. They know that if Jerry wants someone on the team or getting more time on the field it's going to happen.

Part of Jerry being so over the top with his 'I am the boss' BS is just him flaunting his ego. But not all of it and that fact should have been very obvious to all of the Cowboys fans when they signed Pacman Jones.

No one wants him now and no one wanted him then. This staff didn't want him because they knew he was as dumb as a rock. He was only as good as his athletic talent would allow him to be. When it came to him following directions and being a disciplined player within the framework of the defense he was a failure.

You think Dave Campo was going to come out and say one bad word about anyone on this team? lol. Campo is still in shock he's back working for the Cowboys. The man was 'pants' on HBO and he still walks around with a smile.

Why do you think Jimmy Johnson left the Cowboys. Why would a guy coming off of two Super Bowl wins within his first few years of coaching just walk away from that golden ticket?

Because he saw the Jerry we have today was coming down from the throne. He knew that Jerry was watching the battles and saw the celebrations and wanted in on that. And not as the 'business guy'.

Jerry was bored of just being the business man behind the star. He was tired of the 'football guys' being at one table and he being at another.

At one point in his life Jerry was at that table with the football guys. He was a football player at Arkansas. He was in that club. He was one of the guys.

So for the last 13 years he's been living in both worlds. He can be one of the guys who goes to the meetings and evaluates the players and also does all of the business deals like having Jerryworld built.

There is only one problem. He has nothing to show for it.

He now does twice the work and never gets to celebrate.

Please go watch this video. If anyone knew the old Jerry (when he first bought the team) and this current Jerry it's Jimmy Johnson...

http://www.wfaa.com/video/?z=y&nvid=336093

I mean come on. That is the most spot on description of Jerry Jones you could ever ask for.

 

[RoadRunner]

So you think Jerry Jones doesn't listen to the actual football coaches before making "decisions" on who's going to play on Sunday? Do you really think Kevin Ogletree would be active for Sunday's game if the coaches absolutely did not want him to be?

If you do, you're delusional.

Is our current playoff victory drought of over 12 years a delusion? Gotta be a reason for it.

 

[Alexander]

Apparently so. Apparently all those other team's with GM's that have had worse records in the past 10 years simply don't exist.

Actually, they don't. Most of them get fired before the ten years of futility is up.

The problem is, our's will not.

Furthermore, the teams with much worse records than Dallas in the past 5 years must be some sort of fallacy as well.

So now we are shaving it down to the last five years to make us feel better because our record then becomes over five hundred?

And? Records? Who cares about records? The team everyone here laughs at (the Commanders) has had years of five hundred football and they are futile, yet we are on the upswing led by a strident and determined Jerry Jones?

Speaking for myself, I was referring to playoff appearances and wins. Going 13-3 and doing absolutely nothing with it isn't much better than going 8-8 and doing the same Gong Show exit from the playoffs.

In the last 10 years, it is hard to find teams who haven't notched a playoff win. Only the Bengals, Bills, Chiefs, Browns, Texans and Lions are in that illustrious group, with, of course, the Dallas Cowboys.

Nobody is saying that Jerry will win another 3 Super Bowls. But there's a strong contingent that seem steadfast in their belief that Jerry deserved no credit in the first 3 Super Bowls and that he's the worst GM in the league.

That's an extremeist point of view that doesn't strengthen your argument beyond putting up a nice strawman for you to dash through and have a Rocky Balboa moment at the end.

Even the more ardent "haters" of Jerry Jones won't deny he had a role in our dynasty. What people like you (and him for that matter) deny is the fact it really is irrelevant in relationship to what we are talking about. Even if he did it then, he's proven for the last 13 years he can't do it now.

The results prove it. Jerry Jones as the GM in today's NFL (the last decade plus with free agency) has not shown the ability to field a consistent winner. Period. We might as well be Browns fans in the 1970s looking back to the glory days of the 1950s and thinking it matters.

That is why this season is so watershed. This shouldn't only be Wade Phillips' last stand. It should also be Jerry Jones' last stand with himself at the forefront. If the years of futility aren't ended this year, it is the perfect opportunity to begin anew and go with the blueprint that real successful teams in this decade all follow. Get out of the day to day decisions. He can still watch practices, pretend to be a coach, but get out of the way and let the coaches coach, the players play and allow the professionals do their jobs.

All of those beliefs have been easily refuted and furthermore asks the question as to why these fans continue to put money in Jones' wallet and/or watch games if he's so bad.

I watch the games because I have a lot invested in this franchise.

Conversely, I don't spend money on nonsense like "OUR'S IS BIGGER" t-shirts because I know what that is supporting.

At least Commanders fans have the gumption to boycott the team when they want changes in the GM and decision making.

They aren't boycotting the team. They are protesting the poor management which I admire.

In fact, you could argue they are better fans of their team than we are. They won't tolerate ineptitude any longer. They are frustrated, angry and fed up with poor decisions from team management. They no longer take what's shoved down their throats covered in team colors.

The majority of Dallas fans would shout Jerry Jones' name and beg for an autograph in next year's camp even if we tanked the rest of the season.

The "love him or leave" statement is boring and frankly quite ignorant. This is like saying if you don't care for the dictator, give up everything you have and jump the country.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

So you think Jerry Jones doesn't listen to the actual football coaches before making "decisions" on who's going to play on Sunday? Do you really think Kevin Ogletree would be active for Sunday's game if the coaches absolutely did not want him to be?

If you do, you're delusional.

Who on this staff would argue with Jones? Phillips will never see another HC job in his life. Garrett has lost value, Campo? Yeah I do believe that a player would be made active if the coaches want it or not.