Audio: Jerry Jones lays down the law!!!

[Yakuza Rich]

Notice the teams in bold. They are the ones who use "the GM is also the owner" model.

Those in italics all use the "owner is hands off" model.

I wonder who's right? As much as Jones likes to talk about how we like those three Super Bowl trophies? My response is a lot more than thirteen consecutive years of playoff futility.

Indianapolis is a great example.

They flat out stunk for years to the point of stinking up the joint so much that they wound up getting the 1st overall pick in Peyton Manning. Then soon after getting Peyton, a guy who will likely shatter every QB passing record the league has, they suddenly became great.

Is that a great job by the owner or somebody who happened to be very fortunate? This is a QB driven league and they did provide him with some good parts, but they also came extremely close to drafting Ryan Leaf (according to Jim Mora, Sr. who said it was almost 'impossible to tell who would be better').

And in the meantime the Colts have come away with 1 Super Bowl whereas Jerry, the awful owner, has 3 rings.

Philadelphia benefitted greatly from the NFC East being lousy from 2000 - 2004 with their opposing coaches being Campo, Spurrier and Fassel (and the Eagles struggled against the G-Men those years). In the last 5 seasons they have the *same* record as the Cowboys. The only reason why I used the last 10 seasons is because it included the Campo era, but we are far from that era.

And all those great Eagles teams did was come away with ZERO Super Bowls.





YAKUZA

 

[Alexander]

Precisely.

Many people fail to realize the NFL is not static. Like anything else, it's subject to change and paradigm shifts. Either an organization keeps pace with those shifts, or it sinks.

Even if we concede that Jerry deserves most of the credit for the 3 Super Bowl wins in the 90s, he still hasn't demonstrated an ability to win playoff games in the modern NFL.

And the prodigious success of his early years does not absolve twelve years of futility.

There's no reason to begrudge Jerry Jones of his role in the three trophies.

But the fallacy is drawing the logical assumption that he's going to get three more simply because he's still the constant.

The NFL has changed from when he along with Coach Johnson could construct a dynasty. Dynasties today are constructed differently. If he wants to win again, the best way is to step back, hire a strong head coach along with talented general manager and keep himself out of the detailed football based decisions. Robert Kraft, Jeffrey Lurie, the Irsays and the Rooneys have demonstrated how teams can be contenders year in and year out in this age of the NFL.

 

[Alexander]

And in the meantime the Colts have come away with 1 Super Bowl whereas Jerry, the awful owner, has 3 rings.

So how long are we going to cling to the three rings?

20 years without a playoff victory? 25? How about forever? Nobody will ever get to take them away!

Philadelphia benefitted greatly from the NFC East being lousy from 2000 - 2004 with their opposing coaches being Campo, Spurrier and Fassel (and the Eagles struggled against the G-Men those years). In the last 5 seasons they have the *same* record as the Cowboys. The only reason why I used the last 10 seasons is because it included the Campo era, but we are far from that era.

I would take the last ten years over the Eagles over our's. That's the general issue.

It has nothing to do with the relative weakness of the rest of the NFC East. I'd take what Philadelphia has enjoyed over what we have had being part of the rest of the weak NFC East they feasted on.

And all those great Eagles teams did was come away with ZERO Super Bowls.

And I'd take that one Super Bowl loss and four NFC championship losses over our three playoff early exits we've had since 1996.

And so would any other rational fan with a functional brain.

 

[Hostile]

There's no reason to begrudge Jerry Jones of his role in the three trophies.

But the fallacy is drawing the logical assumption that he's going to get three more simply because he's still the constant.

The NFL has changed from when he along with Coach Johnson could construct a dynasty. Dynasties today are constructed differently. If he wants to win again, the best way is to step back, hire a strong head coach along with talented general manager and keep himself out of the detailed football based decisions. Robert Kraft, Jeffrey Lurie, the Irsays and the Rooneys have demonstrated how teams can be contenders year in and year out in this age of the NFL.

Is there an equal fallacy that hiring a GM with Jerry stepping aside will mean another Super Bowl or more of them? Or are fallacies always as one sided as posters opinions?

 

[Doomsay]

Your logic is flawed. You state as fact Jerry is in control as if he makes every decision to be made on a daily basis.

Nope, never said that, it is you that is introducing distortion and supposition into the thread. Said that he takes control via proxy yesmen coaches, mostly non-head coach material, show me where I've indicated to the contrary. No reasonable person would assume that he makes every decision, he just undermines the authority of the HC position by who he hires and how that person is treated publicly.

That's impossible. You state you know how Jerry feels and thinks. That is the cognitive distortion of mind reading. All Jerry is saying is that when he wants to he has the right to have the final say.

Jones doesn't mask how he thinks. Jerry said that anybody could coach his 90's Cowboys when compelling Jimmy to leave, you tell me what that means - also work out a thesis on the Pepsi commercial ..... life imitating art? Doesn't take a psychologist to make a garden variety diagnosis here, especially when Jerry does it for you on his unprecedented (for an owner) weekly radio show.

It does come across as arrogant if you take that as face value without putting it into context. He's told people before he takes in all the available data and makes decisions. He doesn't say he actually makes them all and again that is impossible. As another poster stated, no one person makes all the decisions in a business that large. Especially from a coaching standpoint. It's just absolutely silly to think Jerry sends plays in, influences game plans or the such. I have no doubt he drops hints or even says I'd like to see Olgetree in the game at some point this year; we need to find out what we have in him. That's Jerry the GM talking; if indeed he does that very thing. It could be as simple as saying we need to get some snaps for our younger players when we can.

This entire thread is a great example of all or nothing thinking, a cognitive distortion. The truth lies in the middle.

The cognitive distortion is created by those who overstate Jerry's role. Again, nobody has asserted that he makes every decision on the field, I'm not even sure if the Olgetree issue is true, this is a straw man argument approach.

But Jerry is again the authority figure with the players, not the coach, which is the real problem. As much as I dislike Wade as a HC, he has been handcuffed by the Byzantine coaching structure that Jerry cobbled together to groom his coach in waiting: Jason. No team has ever won the Super Bowl with a coach that the players don't respect ("Owner won't let me talk to the press at the combine"). Jerry has had 2 coaches that could stand up to him, under those coaches the team made marked improvements and Jerry's public presence was somewhat overshadowed by their relative successes, that's a fact. He chose to replace those 2 independent and competent coaches with weak-willed yesmen that wouldn't have coached anywhere else in the NFL had Jerry not brought them into the fold. You tell me what that means.

 

[redrum237]

What an absolutely stupid thread.

 

[tomson75]

What an absolutely stupid thread.

Best first post ever.

 

[DallasEast]

What an absolutely stupid thread.

to the Zone!

FYI: Jerry Jones is Satan and he will eat your soul!

Enjoy your stay.

 

[tecolote]

Best first post ever.

 

[Blast From The Past]

Jerry said the final say is on the GM, and if not the GM, the owner, but in our case, it's the same guy. Jerry goes on to say it has been this way for 20 years, even when Parcells was here.

I think Jimmy Johnson would dispute that was the way it was when he was coaching here, as a matter of fact he did in an interview someone posted on this forum earlier this year.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So how long are we going to cling to the three rings?

20 years without a playoff victory? 25? How about forever? Nobody will ever get to take them away!



I would take the last ten years over the Eagles over our's. That's the general issue.

It has nothing to do with the relative weakness of the rest of the NFC East. I'd take what Philadelphia has enjoyed over what we have had being part of the rest of the weak NFC East they feasted on.



And I'd take that one Super Bowl loss and four NFC championship losses over our three playoff early exits we've had since 1996.

And so would any other rational fan with a functional brain.

The rational fan with a functional brain would realize that the BEST the Eagles could do and most likely the best they will ever do, netted them ONE appearance to the Super Bowl and ZERO Super Bowl victories.

And the rational fan with a functional brain would easily take 3 Super bowl victories in the last 17 years than a team that went to 4 NFC Championships with ZERO Super Bowls in the last 10 years.

Lastly, the rational fan with a functional brain would realize that if you are so disheartened by Jerry Jones as an owner and GM, then you should stop rooting for Dallas and stop watching them all together because the fact remains that Jerry will not give up this power and roles within the organization as long as there's money coming in his pocket and the Cowboys have extremely high TV ratings.







YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Is there an equal fallacy that hiring a GM with Jerry stepping aside will mean another Super Bowl or more of them? Or are fallacies always as one sided as posters opinions?

Apparently so. Apparently all those other team's with GM's that have had worse records in the past 10 years simply don't exist. Furthermore, the teams with much worse records than Dallas in the past 5 years must be some sort of fallacy as well.

Nobody is saying that Jerry will win another 3 Super Bowls. But there's a strong contingent that seem steadfast in their belief that Jerry deserved no credit in the first 3 Super Bowls and that he's the worst GM in the league.

All of those beliefs have been easily refuted and furthermore asks the question as to why these fans continue to put money in Jones' wallet and/or watch games if he's so bad. At least Commanders fans have the gumption to boycott the team when they want changes in the GM and decision making.





YAKUZA

 

[jobberone]

Nope, never said that, it is you that is introducing distortion and supposition into the thread. Said that he takes control via proxy yesmen coaches, mostly non-head coach material, show me where I've indicated to the contrary. No reasonable person would assume that he makes every decision, he just undermines the authority of the HC position by who he hires and how that person is treated publicly.

And you assume it is fact Jerry deliberately undermines the authority of the HC and treats him badly publicly. You give an example of not allowing the HC talking at the combine. There was a general gag order for all employees and I will assume it meant certain kinds of statements. Certainly they talked to whom they wanted otherwise. So you are assuming things and putting YOUR spin on them. I'm merely looking at both sides and thinking what would a reasonable person mean by that.

Jones doesn't mask how he thinks. Jerry said that anybody could coach his 90's Cowboys when compelling Jimmy to leave, you tell me what that means - also work out a thesis on the Pepsi commercial ..... life imitating art? Doesn't take a psychologist to make a garden variety diagnosis here, especially when Jerry does it for you on his unprecedented (for an owner) weekly radio show.

I said he lets you know what's going on in general. I have no idea what you're talking about in regards the other but I'll assume its more of the above variety. If you look for it you will find it!

The cognitive distortion is created by those who overstate Jerry's role. Again, nobody has asserted that he makes every decision on the field, I'm not even sure if the Olgetree issue is true, this is a straw man argument approach.

But Jerry is again the authority figure with the players, not the coach, which is the real problem. As much as I dislike Wade as a HC, he has been handcuffed by the Byzantine coaching structure that Jerry cobbled together to groom his coach in waiting: Jason. No team has ever won the Super Bowl with a coach that the players don't respect ("Owner won't let me talk to the press at the combine"). Jerry has had 2 coaches that could stand up to him, under those coaches the team made marked improvements and Jerry's public presence was somewhat overshadowed by their relative successes, that's a fact. He chose to replace those 2 independent and competent coaches with weak-willed yesmen that wouldn't have coached anywhere else in the NFL had Jerry not brought them into the fold. You tell me what that means.

I agree with the distorted thinking on the generalized statements that serve an agenda.

Again you assume it's Jason the next HC. You have zero idea knowledge that Jason is actually going to be the next HC and no one but Jerry knows when and if there will be a new HC soon. More assumptions to support your argument. I will admit that Jason Garrett is polishing up his resume for someone and that could very well be with the Dallas Cowboys. His offense is generally doing very well. But we don't know that. Only he did chose his OC possible HC before rejecting him as a HC to choose Wade.

I got news for you. If Wade wins this year there will be no abrupt decision to change HCs. And many here better be careful what they wish for. Wade's side of the ball is doing pretty well. I think Jason can take care of his side but who's gonna run the defense. Not Campo I hope. He has enough trouble with the secondary doing its job.

I don't see Wade as weak-willed. That's another assumption. I do see him as not caring one bit for the lime lite. I'll give you that Jerry hates not being the spokesperson for the franchise. That rubbed Jerry real raw when Bill was here. But not every HC cares a ding dong what the owner does as long as he gets to coach the way he wants. Betcha big bucks that old Wade plays who, when, where, and what he wants on his side of the ball. And if he's smart he'll leave the offense alone and let Jason do his thing.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I don't mind reasonable assumptions based in reality and not driven by an agenda. I do mind using opinions as facts to drive an agenda they may easily be wrong about.

I will give you this. Jerry needs to take a long hard look at his remaining years and decide if someone else can be a better GM. And I think the only viable and realistic candidate is Stephen. I don't see Jerry bypassing his son. But it's painfully obvious that Jerry is not going to step down completely until some day in the distant future.

As the song goes: Get over it. Be happy.

 

[Jed_70]

Apparently so. Apparently all those other team's with GM's that have had worse records in the past 10 years simply don't exist. Furthermore, the teams with much worse records than Dallas in the past 5 years must be some sort of fallacy as well.

Nobody is saying that Jerry will win another 3 Super Bowls. But there's a strong contingent that seem steadfast in their belief that Jerry deserved no credit in the first 3 Super Bowls and that he's the worst GM in the league.

All of those beliefs have been easily refuted and furthermore asks the question as to why these fans continue to put money in Jones' wallet and/or watch games if he's so bad. At least Commanders fans have the gumption to boycott the team when they want changes in the GM and decision making.





YAKUZA

The issue is Jerry's not a real football guy. He's a fraud playing fantasy football.

While signing a qualified GM does not guarantee the Cowboys a title I do think the Cowboys would have a much better chance at seeing some post season success w/o Jerry trying to force his philosophy on coaching staffs that have forgotten more about football than he'll every know.

Also, Jerry doesn't deserve credit for the 3 Super Bowl titles. Jerry was brand new to the NFL back in '89. He'd spent 25 years away from any kind of football. He was busy earning his billions running his business.

Do you honestly thing he spent a quarter of a century away from the game of football, waltzed right into the NFL and immediately built a dominant championship caliber squad within 4 years? It's laughable to even suggest he did so. All Jerry did was hang around Jimmy and the real football minds begging them to make him look and feel important.

And if you do think he's this skilled GM that built a championship squad over the course of 3 years then please explain to us why he hasn't come remotely close to building another great team. If it weren't for Parcells coming in here and revamping the losing culture that Jerry built up we'd still be scuffling for 5 wins a year.

Finally I'd say if you put Jerry Jones with a team in a smaller market like Indianapolis or Carolina his teams would definitely be perennial cellar dwellers. Right now he's enjoying the advantage of being associated with a premiere team that draws good free agents, ratings, and ticket sales no matter their record.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Do you honestly thing he spent a quarter of a century away from the game of football, waltzed right into the NFL and immediately built a dominant championship caliber squad within 4 years? It's laughable to even suggest he did so. All Jerry did was hang around Jimmy and the real football minds begging them to make him look and feel important.

Then what would've happened had we drafted Mandarich over Aikman and made Steve Walsh the starting QB?

And how well would we have done had Jerry not struck up the Hershel Walker trade?

How well would we have done if we had kept Jimmy's guy, David Shula, as O-Coordinator (Jimmy was a huge Shula fan and thought David would be great) before Jerry went out and found Norv?

And why couldn't Jimmy take a decent Miami team under Shula and turn them into nothing more than a decent Miami team that lost 62-7 in a playoff game againt Jacksonville?

It's really laughable to assume that Jimmy was some type of football genius who had NEVER coached in the pro game before and just turned in a championship caliber squad within 5 years all by himself.

And if you do think he's this skilled GM that built a championship squad over the course of 3 years then please explain to us why he hasn't come remotely close to building another great team.

1. I've said that Jerry's job as a GM has been about average the past 10 years and the record has shown that.

2. Going 13-3 in 2007 is remotely close to building a great team. We certainly didn't accomplish all of the goals, but 13-3 is close to a great team no matter how you slice and how big of an axe you have to grind.

Finally I'd say if you put Jerry Jones with a team in a smaller market like Indianapolis or Carolina his teams would definitely be perennial cellar dwellers. Right now he's enjoying the advantage of being associated with a premiere team that draws good free agents, ratings, and ticket sales no matter their record.

First, I think most of us would agree that Jerry is an excellent business man and a superb marketer. I think if he were to take a franchise in Cincinnati, it would be wildly successful financially.

Second, there are far bigger markets and owners with FAR more money than Jerry in the NFL. The Jets ownership, Bob McNair in Houston and Paul Allen in Seattle have far far more value than Jerry. Cities like Chicago, Philly, Houston and New York have far bigger markets than the city of Dallas, yet they cannot get their teams to have more value than the Cowboys. And remember, the Cowboys were a bit rough financially when Jerry took them over.

Lastly, this is a league with a salary cap that teams cannot go above. There is no luxury tax, it's 'here's the cap, stay below it.' So FA's almost always go where the money and playing time is. If the Cowboys don't have the money under the cap to sign a guy what he wants and the Cleveland Browns do, we'll likely lose out to that FA.

Seriously, if you don't like it I can't fathom why you would still root for the team and watch the games because all you're doing is keeping Jerry as the GM and Owner.




YAKUZA

 

[dcfanatic]

I had a night to digest this interview and decided I wanted to chime in a little even though I hate the interminable Jerry discussions.

I understand exactly what he was trying to say, and I wish he had never said it. I wonder if Jerry realizes just how much he is viewed as a meddling owner? This just added fuel (excuse me fule) to the fire. I know the facts are different than the perceptions in many ways, but feeding this and using the Super Bowls as justification just comes across as arrogant.

You my friend are a stand up guy.

 

[dcfanatic]

I'm still trying to figure out where Ogletree is mentioned in the audio...

He wasn't. I made that part up.

:laugh2:

 

[tecolote]

The issue is Jerry's not a real football guy. He's a fraud playing fantasy football.

While signing a qualified GM does not guarantee the Cowboys a title I do think the Cowboys would have a much better chance at seeing some post season success w/o Jerry trying to force his philosophy on coaching staffs that have forgotten more about football than he'll every know.

Also, Jerry doesn't deserve credit for the 3 Super Bowl titles. Jerry was brand new to the NFL back in '89. He'd spent 25 years away from any kind of football. He was busy earning his billions running his business.

Do you honestly thing he spent a quarter of a century away from the game of football, waltzed right into the NFL and immediately built a dominant championship caliber squad within 4 years? It's laughable to even suggest he did so. All Jerry did was hang around Jimmy and the real football minds begging them to make him look and feel important.

And if you do think he's this skilled GM that built a championship squad over the course of 3 years then please explain to us why he hasn't come remotely close to building another great team. If it weren't for Parcells coming in here and revamping the losing culture that Jerry built up we'd still be scuffling for 5 wins a year.

Finally I'd say if you put Jerry Jones with a team in a smaller market like Indianapolis or Carolina his teams would definitely be perennial cellar dwellers. Right now he's enjoying the advantage of being associated with a premiere team that draws good free agents, ratings, and ticket sales no matter their record.

Do you realize you just described something that happened exactly the way you put it and made it sound as if it didn't happen at all?

Let me give you an example of what you did.

Do you honestly think MIchael Jordan retired from basketball to play baseball for a couple of years and then came back to basketball to win 3 more titles?

 

[dcfanatic]

Do you realize you just described something that happened exactly the way you put it and made it sound as if it didn't happen at all?

Let me give you an example of what you did.

Do you honestly think MIchael Jordan retired from basketball to play baseball for a couple of years and then came back to basketball to win 3 more titles?

25 years to a couple of years?

And owning a team in the NFL and playing basketball are kind of on a different level, no?

 

[tecolote]

25 years to a couple of years?

And owning a team in the NFL and playing basketball are kind of on a different level, no?

That's not what I meant DC, I wasn't comparing sports or number of years, just facts. Jerry did buy the team after 25 years away from football and built a champion in 4 years.

Obviously he had help but he did do it.