BE HONEST NOW: Who would you rather have at out-side linebacker?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Shockingly, Arrington was out of the lineup, or barely played in both of their wins. Even more shocking, that he didn't really play in either game the year before either.




You mean those two games LaVar didn't play in, or played minimally?

Check Lavar's stat sheet - 0's across the board in 04.




Some substance in yours....using four games LaVar barely played in, or didn't play at all.

Pardon me, while I

To be serious, though, Arrington COULD flip that switch in NY. He COULD all of a sudden start to approach his potential, rather than getting by on being one of the most overrated players in the game. He COULD start giving a crap about his defensive assignments, instead of just chasing all the time, trying to make huge plays, and hurting his team in the process.

But he's had six years, and some of the best coaches in the business to achieve that under. So far - he hasn't.

OK, so if he was not in the game, how does it prove that he is or is not effective against us or whomever?

You may laugh or what have you. It is of little consiquence. The point is that he is joining a very talented Giants team. I don't expect to see his performance get any worse because of it. Many people think that because he is switching from Will to Sam, his play will suffer because of it. Personally, I'm not so sure. Before, he had the latitude to be much more free in the defensive scheme. At strong side LB, he is going to be more structured and this just may allow his natural ability to prove out as opposed to letting his lack of discipline get in the way, if you will. I think Arrington is going to have a good year but in the end, we will all see. The games will be played and the results will speak for themselves.

 

[kiheikiwi]

Lavar Arrington
Bobby Carpenter
Manny Lawson
Kamerion Wimbley

Carpenter - Is the perfect player for us, for alot of the reasons already givin. Just like last year, I am really happy we got Ware over Merriman (will be better long term) but I will follow Merriman's carear (Spelling ?) with interest.
Same this year with Wimbley and to a lesser extent Lawson, Wimbley will be a player for the Browns - not so sure about Lawson. Never interested at all in Arrington. So, Carp. all the way....

 

[t.o.boys81]

OK, so if he was not in the game, how does it prove that he is or is not effective against us or whomever?

You may laugh or what have you. It is of little consiquence. The point is that he is joining a very talented Giants team. I don't expect to see his performance get any worse because of it. Many people think that because he is switching from Will to Sam, his play will suffer because of it. Personally, I'm not so sure. Before, he had the latitude to be much more free in the defensive scheme. At strong side LB, he is going to be more structured and this just may allow his natural ability to prove out as opposed to letting his lack of discipline get in the way, if you will. I think Arrington is going to have a good year but in the end, we will all see. The games will be played and the results will speak for themselves.

I agree with you ABQCOWBOY. I think the Giants pose the biggest threat to us in the NFC East and Arrington signing with them doesn't make me feel very warm and fuzzy. We'll see what happens when the season starts.

 

[superpunk]

OK, so if he was not in the game, how does it prove that he is or is not effective against us or whomever?

I don't know....the previous 4 years we faced him, quotes from coaches, examples from coaches, great defensive minds effectively benching him, and telling him to take a hike at the end of the year.....for starters.

You may laugh or what have you. It is of little consiquence. The point is that he is joining a very talented Giants team.

And the Skins team that has finished in the top 10 in defense the past two years - without him - is chopped liver?

I don't expect to see his performance get any worse because of it. Many people think that because he is switching from Will to Sam, his play will suffer because of it. Personally, I'm not so sure. Before, he had the latitude to be much more free in the defensive scheme. At strong side LB, he is going to be more structured and this just may allow his natural ability to prove out as opposed to letting his lack of discipline get in the way, if you will. I think Arrington is going to have a good year but in the end, we will all see. The games will be played and the results will speak for themselves.

All speculation. I'd imagine if you asked his former coaches what they thought about Arrington being given a position that requires more thought and responsibility, and less free-lancing, they'd laugh at you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, I guess I could post this over and over again but it's pointless.

Yes, I do believe that Arrington is going to be more structured because if he does play Sam, the position dictates it. The Giants are a veteran defensive team. I don't expect Arrington to go in there and do what he wants. He will play within the scheme. IMO, he is going to be a good player for them but again, time will tell.

I will be here if he proves to be a bust and I will have no problem admitting it should that come to pass.

You may both rest assured that I will be looking for the same from each of you if the reverse proves to be true, as I suspect.

 

[Alexander]

Well, I guess I could post this over and over again but it's pointless.

You are right. Because you are simply taking a shot in the dark.

You may both rest assured that I will be looking for the same from each of you if the reverse proves to be true, as I suspect.

That's fine. But neither one of us was drawing conclusions about his impact in games that he didn't even play in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd imagine if you asked his former coaches what they thought about Arrington being given a position that requires more thought and responsibility, and less free-lancing, they'd laugh at you.

Well, they'ed be in good company then would they not? They'll be right there with you.

Is that not the conclusion you are trying very hard for us all to come to?

 

[superpunk]

Well, I guess I could post this over and over again but it's pointless.

Yes, I do believe that Arrington is going to be more structured because if he does play Sam, the position dictates it. The Giants are a veteran defensive team. I don't expect Arrington to go in there and do what he wants. He will play within the scheme. IMO, he is going to be a good player for them but again, time will tell.

I will be here if he proves to be a bust and I will have no problem admitting it should that come to pass.

You may both rest assured that I will be looking for the same from each of you if the reverse proves to be true, as I suspect.

Not one person has said it's not possible, but feel free to throw this back in our face if Arrington reaches any sort of respectable status this year. It doesn't change the fact that everything we've said is fact, and Arrington has shown zero ability to do any of the things you think he will do with NY this year.

BTW - I'm not much one for chest thumping. I have no doubt that in an hour, I'll forget we ever talked about this. So if he does bomb, don't expect any hootin and hollerin from me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You are right. Because you are simply taking a shot in the dark.



That's fine. But neither one of us was drawing conclusions about his impact in games that he didn't even play in.

The question is one of conclusion Al. Good lord, were being asked to pick between 3 players who have never played a down of football in the NFL and one who has had questions about his whole career.

What's the delima?

I did not introduce this idea of him playing in games. I simply responded to that line of thinking. I have watched Arrington play on several occasions. I do not say that he is undisciplined. I simply say that I don't know the scheme GW played him in so I can't comment on if he was or was not carrying out his assignment. Only that when GW was at Texas, DJ was criticised for doing many of the same things. If he didn't play against us at all, then there is no information to prove or disprove either way. To say that he has not hurt us in the past might be a valid statement, in itself, but to say that it proves that he won't be effective is not valid at all.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not one person has said it's not possible, but feel free to throw this back in our face if Arrington reaches any sort of respectable status this year. It doesn't change the fact that everything we've said is fact, and Arrington has shown zero ability to do any of the things you think he will do with NY this year.

BTW - I'm not much one for chest thumping. I have no doubt that in an hour, I'll forget we ever talked about this. So if he does bomb, don't expect any hootin and hollerin from me.

To be honest, I don't expect much from you either way.

I do not agree with your assesment of Arrington's play. It is as simple as that. I do not dispute that Arrington has hurt himself in many situations but he is also capable of executing when he plays with in the structure of his scheme. I have also seen him do this BTW.

What will he do in NY? That's the question. If he does not play more disciplined, he will fail. You will be proven right. If he does make the adjustment, he's going to be a very effective player for them.

There is little room for dispute on this point.

 

[Alexander]

The question is one of conclusion Al. Good lord, were being asked to pick between 3 players who have never played a down of football in the NFL and one who has had questions about his whole career.

What's the delima?

The dilemma is your statement that you would take Arrington, hands down, over Carpenter. And the facts say he wasn't impactful against us, nor did we even make the slightest move to sign him when he sat on the open market for months.

What did the Cowboys miss that you apparently picked up on? You have faith he can do it because you appear to like the player. But that's faith, not fact.

Only that when GW was at Texas, DJ was criticised for doing many of the same things.

Are we talking about Gregg Williams or Gregg Robinson here?

If he didn't play against us at all, then there is no information to prove or disprove either way.

He did play against us and has played against us since he came in the league. Twice a year. And one time did he make any sort of positive impact, if you count hitting a concussed and mush-headed Troy Aikman making an impact.

To say that he has not hurt us in the past might be a valid statement, in itself, but to say that it proves that he won't be effective is not valid at all.

It demonstrates more than "Okay, here is the deal, he's good even though he hasn't shown it and he'll be good in New York, even though he hasn't been good yet, you'll see."

 

[superpunk]

To be honest, I don't expect much from you either way.

It's a good way to not be disappointed. Probably a good move.

I do not agree with your assesment of Arrington's play. It is as simple as that. I do not dispute that Arrington has hurt himself in many situations but he is also capable of executing when he plays with in the structure of his scheme. I have also seen him do this BTW.

Unfortunately, several of the best DC's in the league, take issue with that, or at least, his ability to do it on a consistent basis.

What will he do in NY? That's the question. If he does not play more disciplined, he will fail. You will be proven right. If he does make the adjustment, he's going to be a very effective player for them.

There is little room for dispute on this point.

The dispute is that you think he's going to magically change things he's been doing at least the last 8 years, simply by changing his area code. Having watched Tim Lewis' defense, he doesn't really blitz his LBs all that much - so when is Arrington going to get to do what he loves? I just take issue with this notion;

Well Fellas, all I can say to you is that we will see. We are going to have an opportunity to see Arrington twice a year.

When we've already been seeing him - twice a year. He wasn't scary then - why should he be now? Because NY kicks royal ***? I don't get it. One side of the argument is based on LaVar completely changing the way he's played his game his entire life, the other side is based on his body of work.

 

[superpunk]

It demonstrates more than "Okay, here is the deal, he's good even though he hasn't shown it and he'll be good in New York, even though he hasn't been good yet, you'll see."

Insert hammer emoticon here - lol.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The dilemma is your statement that you would take Arrington, hands down, over Carpenter. And the facts say he wasn't impactful against us, nor did we even make the slightest move to sign him when he sat on the open market for months.

What did the Cowboys miss that you apparently picked up on? You have faith he can do it because you appear to like the player. But that's faith, not fact.



Are we talking about Gregg Williams or Gregg Robinson here?



He did play against us and has played against us since he came in the league. Twice a year. And one time did he make any sort of positive impact, if you count hitting a concussed and mush-headed Troy Aikman making an impact.



It demonstrates more than "Okay, here is the deal, he's good even though he hasn't shown it and he'll be good in New York, even though he hasn't been good yet, you'll see."

As I said before, I would take any proven player over any Rookie that has not proven a thing. In your eyes, Arrington is not a proven player. In my eyes, while I may not see him as living up to his potential, I certainly see him as having proven a great deal more then any player who has done nothing as of yet.

I do believe that given the chance to sign Arrington or draft a rookie, Salary aside here, we would sign Arrington. I'm perfectly fine with the fact that you don't agree but in reality, you have no more proof that we would or wouldn't do that then I do. It is my opinion that we would do that. It is your opinion that we wouldn't. At the end of the day, that's all it is. Opinion Al.

Regardless of what you write, Arrington has played very well in instances. For you to say he has never shown anything is not accurate. I understand, that statement aids your position but it is not completely accurate.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's a good way to not be disappointed. Probably a good move.



Unfortunately, several of the best DC's in the league, take issue with that, or at least, his ability to do it on a consistent basis.



The dispute is that you think he's going to magically change things he's been doing at least the last 8 years, simply by changing his area code. Having watched Tim Lewis' defense, he doesn't really blitz his LBs all that much - so when is Arrington going to get to do what he loves? I just take issue with this notion;



When we've already been seeing him - twice a year. He wasn't scary then - why should he be now? Because NY kicks royal ***? I don't get it. One side of the argument is based on LaVar completely changing the way he's played his game his entire life, the other side is based on his body of work.

This is pointless. While I'm certain you would enjoy this discussion going round and round and ending in exactly the same place every time, I am not so easily enthused. For that, I am sorry.

I do not agree with your point of view. You do not agree with mine. Season is coming. We will soon see who's opinion is closer to the mark.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Insert hammer emoticon here - lol.

Or maybe we can just put a little Superman up there.

 

[superpunk]

This is pointless. While I'm certain you would enjoy this discussion going round and round and ending in exactly the same place every time, I am not so easily enthused. For that, I am sorry.

Actually, what I would ENJOY is some sort of factual discussion, or something to back up your reasoning more than "I feel he'll do better in NY."

I'm sure Skins fans think Lloyd is going to develop a consistent pair of hands.

I'm sure Packer fans think Woodson is all of a sudden going to develop into a decent corner.

And I might buy it, too - if there was any reason or logic behind their reasons for stating their opinions.

I do not agree with your point of view. You do not agree with mine. Season is coming. We will soon see who's opinion is closer to the mark.

Sure. And it won't change the fact that the only thing backing up your opinion - is your gut.

 

[superpunk]

Or maybe we can just put a little Superman up there.

If there was a superman emoticon - I would undoubtedly use it ALL the time.

It's probably for the best one hasn't been developed yet.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So you want your strong side linebacker to be your pass rusher? 20 tackles less where the run often goes, but those 3-7 extra sacks are what makes a better player? You must be joking.

Someone call Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and Jerry Jones. We got the pick wrong.

you're kinda selling Carpenter short as a pass-rusher, one scout said he was the best pass-rusher out of the 3: him, Wimbley and Lawson, and the size and strength that will help him disengage and defeat blocks in the running game, will also give Carpenter an early advantage on Lawson when he must battle an OT at times on the pass-rush

 

[Bob Sacamano]

However, we don't know exactly how he was used and if I know Greg Williams, which I do, he has allowed Arrington a certain amount of freedom in his defensive scheme.

but still, the point is that if you want someone who will fit into your system, which we do, Arrington isn't the guy you want to target, which he wasn't, same reason the Skins weren't shedding alot of tears, Greg Williams relies on players buying into the system, when LaVar left the team...