BTB: Cowboys 2013 Draft Board Leaked... All Seven Rounds (Link Post #21) *Merge*

[jterrell]

If you were in Jerry's shoes what would you have done if Kiffin and Marinelli are telling you they don't want the guy because he's not a pass rusher and there is only one starting caliber OL left?(2 starting caliber OL left at 18)

Jerry had 3 real choices at 18.

Take the guy the scouts rated highest: Floyd; though the new defensive geniuses believed he wasn't a fit for them.

Reach down and take the next highest rated player. If my quick check of lists is correct it is Tyler Eifert.

Trade down to the spot you think presents value for you later on even though its not a real win on most of the trade charts.


Someone above made a salient point. You'd rather have the 'elite' guy.
Last year Mo was considered elite. Top defensive player and a CB with rare ball skills.
The issue in this draft is there was not 5 elite guys. Maybe not even 3. It was considered one of the softest top 10's in history. The depth was a real plus but it was very light on 5 star guys. The best players were all OL. The other guys had holes or lacked all-pro upsides.

 

[Nirvana]

According to the board we had a great draft, getting high value on a lot of picks. If the players turn out to be dirt, we need a new scouting department.

 

[DFWJC]

If you were in Jerry's shoes what would you have done if Kiffin and Marinelli are telling you they don't want the guy because he's not a pass rusher and there is only one starting caliber OL left?(2 starting caliber OL left at 18)

I know you weren't addressing me but this assumption that Kiffin and Marinelli actually told Jerry that they did not want Floyd is a load of garbage.

I can't believe that this stuff has somehow morphed into "fact".

No way they told him that. NO WAY. That team board is created with the scouts and tweaked by the coaches and GM. Floyd WAS 5th ON THE COWBOY'S BOARD!
If Kffin and marenilli don't like him he is either rated way lowere or off the baord enirely. The opposite was true.
I wish you guys would quit making stuff up.


The only thing close somethng like this happening would have been
Jerry wanting to trade down and saying to Kiffin "I know you really like Floyd, but we really need Oline help and get get a two for one deal if we trade dwon. Can you do without him if we get that deal?" And then Kiffin answereing "yes".

That is not at all the same as saying "I don't like this player" or "this guy does not fit our scheme".
Kiffin specifaically was quoted after the draft saying that he tough Floyd was a "great, great player". Exact quote.

In the end, we got a two for one deal for pick 18. Hopefully it works out great.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It amazes me that after 17-18 years of rebuilding some folks still defend Jones...This is the Dallas Freekin Cowboys..Aren't the standards supposed to be a wee bit higher. Anyone else would have been fired 14 years ago. You can say I have an agenda all you want. My agenda is to see the Dallas Cowboys be better than the Seahawks, Falcons, Ravens, and the rest of the NFL.. It's pitiful when teams like the 9ers and Texans are better than us...

Yeah, I believe the Standards are supposed to be higher. Since about 98, which was when Jimmy's team was pretty much gone IMO, the Cowboys have managed 6 playoff trips. Of those, 4 of them were wildcard losses, 2 were divisional losses and really, we've only had 1 playoff win in 15 years. Since 98, we've had 7 winning seasons. Of those winning seasons, 2 of them were 9-7. We've had 3 five hundered seasons and 5 seasons where we were 6-10 or worse. In the last 15 years, we've been a .500 franchise pretty much. We are 122-118 or 4 games above .500 basically. Never bad enough to get very good and never good enough to be anything but a club who is not good enough to be considered good.

Yeah, I think our standards should be higher. I hope we are turning the corner but I am not at all sure we are. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

If you were in Jerry's shoes what would you have done if Kiffin and Marinelli are telling you they don't want the guy because he's not a pass rusher and there is only one starting caliber OL left?(2 starting caliber OL left at 18)

this. i think the situation could of been worse if they both Kiffin and Marinelli said they didn't want him and Jerry drafted him anyway. This forum would be happy, but not the coaches. Just for some food for though, no one here would admit that if this scenario happened that's cutting the legs underneath your coaching staff (the most popular phrase on this board) they would say Jerry made the right decision

 

[Floatyworm]

According to the board we had a great draft, getting high value on a lot of picks. If the players turn out to be dirt, we need a new scouting department.

I've had doubts about our scouting dept. for years.....:bang2:

 

[unionjack8]

I know you weren't addressing me but this assumption that Kiffin and Marinelli actually told Jerry that they did not want Floyd is a load of garbage.

I can't believe that this stuff has somehow morphed into "fact".

No way they told him that. NO WAY. That team board is created with the scouts and tweaked by the coaches and GM. Floyd WAS 5th ON THE COWBOY'S BOARD!
If Kffin and marenilli don't like him he is either rated way lowere or off the baord enirely. The opposite was true.
I wish you guys would quit making stuff up.


The only thing close somethng like this happening would have been
Jerry wanting to trade down and saying to Kiffin "I know you really like Floyd, but we really need Oline help and get get a two for one deal if we trade dwon. Can you do without him if we get that deal?" And then Kiffin answereing "yes".

That is not at all the same as saying "I don't like this player" or "this guy does not fit our scheme".
Kiffin specifaically was quoted after the draft saying that he tough Floyd was a "great, great player". Exact quote.

In the end, we got a two for one deal for pick 18. Hopefully it works out great.

Nice post

 

[Miller]

ROFL... 17 years of rebuilding that has included a few division titles and 7 playoff seasons. Good game, good effort. Please post more.

So 17 years and in the playoffs 7 times with 1 win is acceptable after winning 26 of 31 years with 5 SBs wins out of 8 and what..21 or 22 appearances? You're making fun of the guy for expecting excellence but that is what people did in the past. It isn't a full on rebuild but it isn't close to success.

As for the rest of this thread. If Kiffin and D coaches didn't like Floyd, why would he be rated 5 on our board? Scouts take into account what a team runs on offense and defense. They take guys off a board for character, injury, fit, etc. So why have the guy at 5 if you wouldn't take him?

 

[DFWJC]

I know you weren't addressing me but this assumption that Kiffin and Marinelli actually told Jerry that they did not want Floyd is a load of garbage.

I can't believe that this stuff has somehow morphed into "fact".

No way they told him that. NO WAY. That team board is created with the scouts and tweaked by the coaches and GM. Floyd WAS 5th ON THE COWBOY'S BOARD!
If Kffin and marenilli don't like him he is either rated way lowere or off the baord enirely. The opposite was true.
I wish you guys would quit making stuff up.


The only thing close somethng like this happening would have been
Jerry wanting to trade down and saying to Kiffin "I know you really like Floyd, but we really need Oline help and get get a two for one deal if we trade dwon. Can you do without him if we get that deal?" And then Kiffin answereing "yes".

That is not at all the same as saying "I don't like this player" or "this guy does not fit our scheme".
Kiffin specifaically was quoted after the draft saying that he tough Floyd was a "great, great player". Exact quote.

In the end, we got a two for one deal for pick 18. Hopefully it works out great.

Sorry about the fumble-fingered typing.
The point stands, nevertheless.

 

[reddyuta]

Jerry said the guys with the stars are players they viewed as being very intelligent.

could the star indicate a immediate starter?

 

[Zordon]

I hated trading down that far and getting so little in return. I hated passing on Floyd. However, after seeing the draft board, the moves were totally understandable. Not only that, it really worked out well in the end. To get 3 of our top 25 players is amazing. We got 5 of our top 50 and 6 of our top 67. We got 5 players with 2nd or 3rd round grades despite not going into this draft with a boatload of picks. Trading down as far as they did and getting only a 3rd in return could've blown up in their faces, but it didn't. In fact, they seemed to take calculated risks throughout the draft that worked out in their favor. Taking Escobar over Williams and still getting Williams a round later, for example. Dallas has reason to be happy with their haul IMO. What a great bit of info for diehards like us!

Travis Frederick [2, 22]
Gavin Escobar [2, 25]
Terrance WIlliams [2, 23]
J. J. Wilcox [3, 50]
B. W. Webb [3, 47]
Joseph Randle [3, 67]
DeVonte Holloman [5, 147]

I don't think it's a big deal to trade down but I don't see how any can argue that they shouldn't have at least got another 6th round or 7th round pick out of that trade. People might think that it's not a big deal since it's such a late pick but that pick could have been our blocking tight end.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think it's a big deal to trade down but I don't see how any can argue that they shouldn't have at least got another 6th round or 7th round pick out of that trade. People might think that it's not a big deal since it's such a late pick but that pick could have been our blocking tight end.

I would have liked the extra pick as well but that deal that was not offered so the Cowboys had to make a choice. Personally I think they ended up with 2 very good prospects. Is getting a 7th rd pick worth letting it fall through?

 

[Longboysfan]

Well to get some more information - what did other clubs and scouts have on their boards.

If you had say 4 or 5 other teams boards you could make a good call on the timing of the picks.

 

[igtmfo]

Bullet point for each beer this afternoon (so far):

* I believe Jerry justified skipping Floyd because he was kind a tweener 1/3 DT technique as far as talent/build goes (his words I believe) and therefore not an immediate starter.

* Ciskowski said other day that "we (scouts) lead the players to the bridge and the coaches bring them across to Jerry" (I think I'm pretty close to his quote) ... so we don't know for sure if that #5 on their board for Floyd reflects the coaches' thinking or not. In response to posts immediately above that is.

* AMAZING to me, this year anyway, that as nearly all picks came around, that there must have been little discussion needed in the draft room. Although we flip/flopped some guys - dang when it came time anyway for Williams, Webb, Randle that there was nobody close to them on the value-side of our board for argument. I understand we passed over DT Dawkins and the TE from Rutgers twice figuring they might make 7th round or UDFA I guess. But mostly the need/value ratio wasn't close. For Williams and Webb, no discussion was needed because they dropped so far. I though each pick would be an exercise in nailbiting and arguing 2-3-4 guys that would be real close each round, but not so. Even when it was time for argument, there was maybe only one other guy really in question each pick. (Unless you take ANOTHER RB when you've already taken Randle ... or a DL when you've ruled out drafting a DL maybe that's why Dawkins was skipped)

* Yeah FWIW Kiffin told Jerry the LB meeting room was empty but you couldn't find a chair in the DL meeting room. Get me some LBs he said.

* Surprised we rated (apparently) Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA a 5th rounder but Randle a 3rd rounder, when most pundits had it the opposite. G Bay took Franklin ahead of us - in round 4 I believe.

* Surprised we rated Williams 2nd round when Quinton Patton/La Tech who looked so good at the Senior Bowl was 4th rounder on our board. And Keenan Allen/Calif WR wasn't on our board at all.

 

[jterrell]

I know you weren't addressing me but this assumption that Kiffin and Marinelli actually told Jerry that they did not want Floyd is a load of garbage.

I can't believe that this stuff has somehow morphed into "fact".

No way they told him that. NO WAY. That team board is created with the scouts and tweaked by the coaches and GM. Floyd WAS 5th ON THE COWBOY'S BOARD!
If Kffin and marenilli don't like him he is either rated way lowere or off the baord enirely. The opposite was true.
I wish you guys would quit making stuff up.


The only thing close somethng like this happening would have been
Jerry wanting to trade down and saying to Kiffin "I know you really like Floyd, but we really need Oline help and get get a two for one deal if we trade dwon. Can you do without him if we get that deal?" And then Kiffin answereing "yes".

That is not at all the same as saying "I don't like this player" or "this guy does not fit our scheme".
Kiffin specifaically was quoted after the draft saying that he tough Floyd was a "great, great player". Exact quote.

In the end, we got a two for one deal for pick 18. Hopefully it works out great.

Tom Ciscowski basically blamed them for doing just that.

Asked about passing on Floyd and he stated:

“I think in a lot of cases, it’s kind of like a bridge,” Ciskowski told the G-Bag Nation show Monday on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. “We bring the players to the bridge and the coaches have to take them across. The main thing is just to communicate exactly what the coach wants. There was a defensive tackle from Georgia, John Jenkins, who as a matter of fact, was drafted by New Orleans. If we were still in the 3-4, we would’ve liked him as a nose [tackle]. But now that we’ve transitioned back to a 4-3, he really doesn’t fit what we’re looking for. So a lot of it is about the new coach educating us on what he wants at each position and it’s our job to go out and find it.”

Note the only coaches present were Garrett who seemed to want Floyd and these two.

Also note Kiffin did say Floyd was a great, great player but that Dallas trading down was the proper move and made after considerable debate. If we can use body language to assume Tom C and JG wanted Floyd and not a trade down you gotta do the same to assume Marinelli and Kiffin liked the trade down idea.

They did confirm in this defense Floyd was a 1 and that they were looking more for a 3 or nothing as the DL was very stacked. (can't get a seat in the DL meeting room)

 

[visionary]

Tom Ciscowski basically blamed them for doing just that.

Asked about passing on Floyd and he stated:

“I think in a lot of cases, it’s kind of like a bridge,” Ciskowski told the G-Bag Nation show Monday on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. “We bring the players to the bridge and the coaches have to take them across. The main thing is just to communicate exactly what the coach wants. There was a defensive tackle from Georgia, John Jenkins, who as a matter of fact, was drafted by New Orleans. If we were still in the 3-4, we would’ve liked him as a nose [tackle]. But now that we’ve transitioned back to a 4-3, he really doesn’t fit what we’re looking for. So a lot of it is about the new coach educating us on what he wants at each position and it’s our job to go out and find it.”

Note the only coaches present were Garrett who seemed to want Floyd and these two.

Also note Kiffin did say Floyd was a great, great player but that Dallas trading down was the proper move and made after considerable debate. If we can use body language to assume Tom C and JG wanted Floyd and not a trade down you gotta do the same to assume Marinelli and Kiffin liked the trade down idea.

They did confirm in this defense Floyd was a 1 and that they were looking more for a 3 or nothing as the DL was very stacked. (can't get a seat in the DL meeting room)

Sorry, this logic will not fly

This draft board is not the one scouts put together , this was the team draft board

Which means the coaches had already tweaked it and Floyd was still no. 5

No amount of spin will change that fact

 

[jobberone]

Not when the one ranked higher was actually ranked that high with many teams compared to what the other option was. Just playing Devil's advocate here.

I agree you can't just dismiss what appears to be a consensus around the league but that doesn't make it highly predictive either. Many players are consensus high picks and never pan out; every single year of the draft. You can't hang your hat on that argument. And that's not even taking into consideration how the coaches feel a player is going to fit their scheme.

My general point is the draft is a guessing game and you must remember that you are in the end still throwing dice despite all the time and effort in improving the odds. Getting all wound up over value charts and board positions is worth debating but are still merely tools in achieving the final goal of drafting people who will be successful for your team.

I've stated before that passing on a game changing play maker is not to be taken lightly even if you acquire two solid starters in exchange. We are just going to have to wait on the outcomes.

 

[Zordon]

I would have liked the extra pick as well but that deal that was not offered so the Cowboys had to make a choice. Personally I think they ended up with 2 very good prospects. Is getting a 7th rd pick worth letting it fall through?

No, but then don't tell me how great of negotiator Stephen is out the other side of your mouth. Not saying you specifically but I'm just wondering what is Stephen good for if he's getting worked in trades and the salary cap is always a hindrance.

 

[Aliencowboy]

What no Rambo?!

LOL
Where's the guy that was pushing for him?

 

[gimmesix]

Not when the one ranked higher was actually ranked that high with many teams compared to what the other option was. Just playing Devil's advocate here.

Of course, the other side of that coin is the one "ranked that high with many teams" tumbled all the way to 24.

Either teams passed on him because of other needs or because of the same reasons Dallas hesitated, or they didn't have him ranked that high.