BTB: Cowboys 2013 Draft Board Leaked... All Seven Rounds (Link Post #21) *Merge*

SilverStarCowboy

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If this list isn't fabricated it looks like I was wrong about the Draft Room appearing to deflate after the Datone Jones to Greenbay pick, also about the same time a trade was going to be presented.

St. Louis trading its first-round pick (No. 22) and a 2015 seventh-round pick to Atlanta for the Falcons' first- (No. 30); third- (No. 92); and sixth-round (No. 198) picks. or New England trading its first-round pick (No. 29) to Minnesota for the Vikings' second- (No. 52); third- (No. 83); fourth- (No. 102) and seventh-round (No. 229) picks.
 

ThreeandOut

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visionary;5092730 said:
Sorry, this logic will not fly

This draft board is not the one scouts put together , this was the team draft board

Which means the coaches had already tweaked it and Floyd was still no. 5

No amount of spin will change that fact

No, I think it's entirely possible that the defensive coaches didn't view him as the 5th rated player. There were defensive players rated lower than Floyd on the Cowboys board who they would have taken at 18. They didn't look to trade down until the last of those players (Vacarro) was selected.
 

DFWJC

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ThreeandOut;5092865 said:
No, I think it's entirely possible that the defensive coaches didn't view him as the 5th rated player. There were defensive players rated lower than Floyd on the Cowboys board who they would have taken at 18. They didn't look to trade down until the last of those players (Vacarro) was selected.

They didn't trade down until it was their turn to pick. This is not a video game where you can trade at will. It was hard to find trade down partners. And of course, the team trading up to your spot usually wants to wait to be sure the player they want will still be there at your spot...otherwise, what is the point?

So, your speculation is very highly flawed.
 

Angus

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I suspect the reason Jerry Jones skipped Floyd and traded down to get Frederick goes back to the Romo contract negotiations. If Romo only signed the deal after Jones agreed to draft at least one starting-capable player on the offensive line, Jones may have had little or no choice but to trade down since all starting-capable linemen on the board other than Frederick were already gone (the tackle the Giants took not considered starting-capable).

:)
 

speedkilz88

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They had pinpointed certain guys if they were there at 18. The OL that went early and guys like Vacarro and Richardson.
 

Toruk_Makto

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I would hate to see a lot of you in a board room making decisions.

Here we are given almost the entire fact sheet necessary to understand the Cowboys draft day decisions and the logic in here is still incredibly flawed. I use logic very loosely.

No thought to game theory or gamesmanship for that matter.

As a very small example I saw people claim that the Cowboys definitively did not follow their draft board and reached for need because they took Gee Escobar ahead of Twiizzel. Nobody takes into account the fact that there were more impact WRs than TEs and so it made sense to draft in the order they did.

People say definitively we did not draft according to a BPA philosophy because we traded out of the 18th spot. Which of course makes no sense. Trading out of the 18th spot merely meant we valued those 2 picks we got from the 49ers more than the player we could have gotten at 18.

Had we stayed at 18 (because there were no trade partners we liked) and still gone Fredrick over Floyd then people would have an argument. But that isn't what happened.

Drafting is an art informed by a science. Here we are given the science and people are drawing stick figures with it.
 

Nirvana

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I think we would have grabbed Floyd had he been more of a play maker who would create havoc for QBs. He appears to be more of a Spears type, a run stopper who never has much in the way of sacks. I am glad we passed on that type of player.
 

speedkilz88

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Someone posted that Jerry had said that the stars were for high intelligence.
 

ThreeandOut

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DFWJC;5092907 said:
They didn't trade down until it was their turn to pick. This is not a video game where you can trade at will. It was hard to find trade down partners. And of course, the team trading up to your spot usually wants to wait to be sure the player they want will still be there at your spot...otherwise, what is the point?

So, your speculation is very highly flawed.

I never said they didn't trade down until it was their turn to pick so I'm not sure how my point is flawed. Vacarro was rated lower on their board than Floyd. But by all accounts they would have stayed at 18 and picked Vacarro had he been available.
 

Eskimo

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I think part of what gets everyone confused here is normally the guy you have ranked at #5 is someone who you expect to become a multiple time Pro Bowl selection and maybe even an All-Pro. This represents an elite player, a game breaker, a difference maker.

However, this draft was very weak at the top, okay for non-impact first rounders, okay for second round talent but really strong in 3rd round talent.

The problem with that analysis is that you are inferring the value of the player from the ordinal ranking and not the absolute value of the player.

For example, say that each team gives a score based on the quality of the player itself from 0 to 10 where:

10 = Hall of Fame talent
9 = multiple Pro Bowler
8 = quality starter, may make a Pro Bowl or tow
7 = above avg average starter
6 = average starter
5 = below average starter
4 = backup, spot starterd
3 = evelopmental player, marginal probability to development
2 = good college player, may be ST contributor, low chance of development
1 = avg college player, not NFL quality, longshot to develop
1 = below avg college player

Now normally a #5 pick would be thought to be around 9.4 or so and let's say the #31 pick is thought to be a 7 and a top of the third rounder is a 6.5. Now this is more of an absolute type scale.

This year I think they thought the #5 player was a 8.4, the #31 player was projected to be a 7.3 and the #74 player was projected to be a 6.5. This is the point that people are missing - the Cowboys may have thought the difference in quality between their #5 (8.4) guy and their #22 (7.5) guy might have been very little in terms of their projected contributions. Because they think their #22 guy will fall because of that low 40 time that they're not worried about whether he will fall to #31. At 31 they can grab him before other teams that might think highly of him and have a need for an immediate starter at Center draft. So they position themselves well and end up getting their target all along at a huge position of need, still get a game one starter, still get a 5-year cheap contract and now also get another shot to draft at #74. The draft goes in their favour and they get their #23 player at pick #74 who they also rate at 7.5. So instead of getting one 8.4 player they get two 7.5 players.

Now you add in the fact that the DC doesn't think the #5 player fits his scheme all that well and won't be an impact player for him. He is also telling you that he feels set at DL and does not want any more players to add tot he mix this year. Meanwhile you have a QB getting pounded by pressure up the middle and an offense that has struggled mightily running betweent he Tackles and you have the best point of attack interior blocker in the draft who also has an incredible anchor in pass protection sitting on the board. By the time the coaches tell you what they think the draft grades maybe go Floyd is a 7.9 and Frederick is a 7.7 for us.

I think given what the coaches think of the players and the needs we have a the relative positions the decision to trade Floyd and get the rights to pick TFred and Terrance Williams was a pretty big win.

Now the only question is whether we chose wisely and can develop these guys. I don't care too much about how Floyd does and hope he has a successful career and his production really has very little bearing on what we were able to accomplish with the guys we chose. I might rue a bit if he ends up being a HOFer but I don't think he is going to be that good.
 

coult44

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Winning solves all this BS.. Who cares how many pro bowlers they draft? Who cares how many busts they draft? Who cares how many elite QB's and starting S's we draft. If we WIN, none if it matters. If we continue on the path of failure we've been on for all these years, then we all see its complete failure of the big clown in the room...
 

DFWJC

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Toruk_Makto;5092980 said:
I would hate to see a lot of you in a board room making decisions.

Here we are given almost the entire fact sheet necessary to understand the Cowboys draft day decisions and the logic in here is still incredibly flawed. I use logic very loosely.

No thought to game theory or gamesmanship for that matter.

As a very small example I saw people claim that the Cowboys definitively did not follow their draft board and reached for need because they took Gee Escobar ahead of Twiizzel. Nobody takes into account the fact that there were more impact WRs than TEs and so it made sense to draft in the order they did.

People say definitively we did not draft according to a BPA philosophy because we traded out of the 18th spot. Which of course makes no sense. Trading out of the 18th spot merely meant we valued those 2 picks we got from the 49ers more than the player we could have gotten at 18.

Had we stayed at 18 (because there were no trade partners we liked) and still gone Fredrick over Floyd then people would have an argument. But that isn't what happened.

Drafting is an art informed by a science. Here we are given the science and people are drawing stick figures with it.

Don't bother. I've been trying and it's like...:bang2:

I fully agree with you, fwiw
 

DFWJC

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ThreeandOut;5093018 said:
I never said they didn't trade down until it was their turn to pick so I'm not sure how my point is flawed. Vacarro was rated lower on their board than Floyd. But by all accounts they would have stayed at 18 and picked Vacarro had he been available.

"By all accounts"?

Which ones are those?
 

KB1122

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speedkilz88;5093005 said:
Someone posted that Jerry had said that the stars were for high intelligence.

That way we make sure we know who not to pick. :)
 

DFWJC

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ThreeandOut;5093152 said:
Here's one...

Apparently, the author of post #2 in this thread didn't pay attention to this story.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/dallascowboys.php?t=255781&highlight=Vacarro

That was Calvin Watkins' speculation. That 100% for sure means nothing.
If Jerry or Jason or the head scout says they were taking Vacarro at 18 instead of the the 2for1 trade, then that is a real source.

Why would the actual draft day board have Floyd at 5 if they did not like him a ton?
The issue was that they wanted Oline help and it was looking bleak. They got the 2for1 offer for pick 18 and Jerry took it.

I'm not complaining. But no, I do not thing they liked Vacarro more than Floyd. The board says plain and clearly otherwise.
 

rabblerousr

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The stars (accordin to Bryan Broaddus) indicate "Jason's guys"--the high-character RKGs that he likes, and that they want to try to draft if possible.
 

rabblerousr

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Even though they had Floyd higher-ranked, Vaccaro was the target. Once he went to the Saints at # 16, they started working the phones...
 

TheRomoSexual

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Sorry, I don't want to look through 12 pages...has Risen Star had a conniption over his precious Warford being left off the Cowboy's board?
 
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