Bucky Brooks: "It's a myth that elite QBs single-handedly carry their teams to wins"

Sydla

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The play was not to Cooks. It was to CeeDee. It would have worked better if the play was to Cooks, but sloppy route running and terrible play design had that play doomed before it started. Same thing happened the 2 previous years' playoff losses against the 49ers. Same darn mistakes that have yet to be corrected. Even Kurt Warner hinted at this.
You do realize that a QB can choose not to throw to the first option, right?

Your defense of Dak using play design as the excuse is hilarious because it basically boils down to believing Dak is a moron who can’t read the defense and has to make the first option throw.
 

Roadtrip635

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Elite QBs can do more than just play well. They inspire a lesser player to reach his potential. On the flip side a mediocre QB like Dak inspires his defense to play worse because he plays worse.
It doesn't always work that way. Eli Manning is the definition of mediocre QB, yet he has as many rings as his brother that is considered one of the all time greats. Eli lead the league in INTs in three different seasons, that's not good and he wasn't inspiring players, but he still got 2 rings. Peyton got two rings, but even he was just a passenger for one of those rings and it wasn't his presence that "inspired" their defense. Peyton shouldn't even had made it to that first super bowl, during the playoffs leading up to the big game, he had 7 INTs/2 TDs, his defense covered for him.

Sometimes, it just comes down to luck, right place, right time, right set of circumstances, bounce of the ball, whatever. Brady wasn't considered "elite" early in his career and he's had more than his fair share of fortunate randomness. This past season, Mahomes didn't look "elite", it was their defense that made plays and kept them in games. Sometimes those details get hazy and people search for "the" reason for success or failure when it's usually a much larger combination of events.
 

America's Cowboy

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You do realize that a QB can choose not to throw to the first option, right?

Your defense of Dak using play design as the excuse is hilarious because it basically boils down to believing Dak is a moron who can’t read the defense and has to make the first option throw.
Wrong. The play design was doomed to begin with. Dak and the WRs had no chance. Horrible play design.
 

America's Cowboy

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It doesn't always work that way. Eli Manning is the definition of mediocre QB, yet he has as many rings as his brother that is considered one of the all time greats. Eli lead the league in INTs in three different seasons, that's not good and he wasn't inspiring players, but he still got 2 rings. Peyton got two rings, but even he was just a passenger for one of those rings and it wasn't his presence that "inspired" their defense. Peyton shouldn't even had made it to that first super bowl, during the playoffs leading up to the big game, he had 7 INTs/2 TDs, his defense covered for him.

Sometimes, it just comes down to luck, right place, right time, right set of circumstances, bounce of the ball, whatever. Brady wasn't considered "elite" early in his career and he's had more than his fair share of fortunate randomness. This past season, Mahomes didn't look "elite", it was their defense that made plays and kept them in games. Sometimes those details get hazy and people search for "the" reason for success or failure when it's usually a much larger combination of events.
:hammer: :bow:
 

SultanOfSix

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It doesn't always work that way. Eli Manning is the definition of mediocre QB, yet he has as many rings as his brother that is considered one of the all time greats.
But for some reason Eli and the team he played for played better in the playoffs. Not always in general, but in key moments when it mattered. They kept the score close and somehow Eli made some play that kept them going so that they had a shot at the end. Their first SB win against the Patriots where on 4th down he escaped what looked like a sack to throw it up in the air to the receiver who somehow pulled it down even though the defender’s arms were wrapped inside his and were also on the ball. And in the 2nd SB they won against the Patriots where he threw a perfect sideline pass on 3rd and long from his own side of the field where only the receiver could catch it. Those were two plays that are by definition clutch.
 

MyFairLady

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It doesn't always work that way. Eli Manning is the definition of mediocre QB, yet he has as many rings as his brother that is considered one of the all time greats. Eli lead the league in INTs in three different seasons, that's not good and he wasn't inspiring players, but he still got 2 rings. Peyton got two rings, but even he was just a passenger for one of those rings and it wasn't his presence that "inspired" their defense. Peyton shouldn't even had made it to that first super bowl, during the playoffs leading up to the big game, he had 7 INTs/2 TDs, his defense covered for him.

Sometimes, it just comes down to luck, right place, right time, right set of circumstances, bounce of the ball, whatever. Brady wasn't considered "elite" early in his career and he's had more than his fair share of fortunate randomness. This past season, Mahomes didn't look "elite", it was their defense that made plays and kept them in games. Sometimes those details get hazy and people search for "the" reason for success or failure when it's usually a much larger combination of events.
I don't know how it happened but I have become the resident Eli Manning defender. When I read stuff like this I feel as though it is entirely emotional. Did you watch his play off runs? The guy made massive plays over and over all the way to a super bowl win twice. He has achieved legend status as a QB. No one can ever take that away from him. You might as well just accept the fact that he is a total boss from now until eternity.
 

Sydla

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Wrong. The play design was doomed to begin with. Dak and the WRs had no chance. Horrible play design.
This is false. The QB does not have to throw the ball. How are you struggling with this concept?

Just because the play design is bad, the QB can still make the decision to not throw the ball into a bad spot.

So again, your theory is based on the premise that Dak is a moron who has no ability to see what’s happening as a play develops and as such has to rely on creative play calling to get guys wide open for him to be successful.
 

America's Cowboy

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This is false. The QB does not have to throw the ball. How are you struggling with this concept?

Just because the play design is bad, the QB can still make the decision to not throw the ball into a bad spot.

So again, your theory is based on the premise that Dak is a moron who has no ability to see what’s happening as a play develops and as such has to rely on creative play calling to get guys wide open for him to be successful.
THE PLAY-ACTION IS WHAT DOOMED THE QB ON WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A QUICK HITTING, 1-STEP PASS.

What don't you understand? Kurt Warner even explained it.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Dak is like the CEO of a large corporation that is happy to place the blame at the feet of a guy making minimum wage. The guy making minimum wage does not get paid enough to care. He is not responsible for making it all work. This is your show big guy and the performance against Green Bay was the worst show I have ever seen in my life.
Why do you guys keep saying this? When has Dak placed blame on anyone lol? You’re not the first one to say this yet no one explains where this come from.
 

Sydla

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THE PLAY-ACTION IS WHAT DOOMED THE QB ON WHAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A QUICK HITTING, 1-STEP PASS.

What don't you understand? Kurt Warner even explained it.
So Dak has to throw the ball regardless of what’s happening on the field?

And let’s be clear here, Warner doesn’t absolve Dak of blame on both those plays.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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It doesn't always work that way. Eli Manning is the definition of mediocre QB, yet he has as many rings as his brother that is considered one of the all time greats. Eli lead the league in INTs in three different seasons, that's not good and he wasn't inspiring players, but he still got 2 rings. Peyton got two rings, but even he was just a passenger for one of those rings and it wasn't his presence that "inspired" their defense. Peyton shouldn't even had made it to that first super bowl, during the playoffs leading up to the big game, he had 7 INTs/2 TDs, his defense covered for him.

Sometimes, it just comes down to luck, right place, right time, right set of circumstances, bounce of the ball, whatever. Brady wasn't considered "elite" early in his career and he's had more than his fair share of fortunate randomness. This past season, Mahomes didn't look "elite", it was their defense that made plays and kept them in games. Sometimes those details get hazy and people search for "the" reason for success or failure when it's usually a much larger combination of events.
Great post.
 

MyFairLady

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If the play design is bad that is Daks fault. He makes 20x what the offensive coordinator makes. He is the absolute top of the chain of command. Did he practice that play all week knowing it was flawed but just kept quiet because he didn't want to hurt the coaches feelings? If the play sucks call it off. Take a time out. Take a sack. Throw it away. Do literally anything but what he did.
 

Roadtrip635

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But for some reason Eli and the team he played for played better in the playoffs. Not always in general, but in key moments when it mattered. They kept the score close and somehow Eli made some play that kept them going so that they had a shot at the end. Their first SB win against the Patriots where on 4th down he escaped what looked like a sack to throw it up in the air to the receiver who somehow pulled it down even though the defender’s arms were wrapped inside his and were also on the ball. And in the 2nd SB they won against the Patriots where he threw a perfect sideline pass on 3rd and long from his own side of the field where only the receiver could catch it. Those were two plays that are by definition clutch.
That wasn't an "elite" QB making a play, that was just one of those great moments and I would say the catch was more impressive than the throw, he caught that thing stuck to the side of his head. That catch doesn't make that WR "elite", but it was still an all time great moment. Those plays could be described as "clutch", but it still doesn't make Eli elite.
 

Brax

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Kurt Warner has called out the same dumb play designs, sloppy routes and poor decisions 3 playoff loss seasons in a row. He said the Cowboys have failed to correct the same mistakes. So, yes, absolutely yes I'm calling out the coaches and players. For this they get paid millions?
Your spin on what KW said, it gets old hearing you blame everyone but the QB who is the guy that makes the decision to throw, all those bad routes and concepts and schemes worked great for the offense the whole season but the one constant in 3 playoff appearances is the poor play of the most important position on the offense, do you know who that is. By the way garbage stats don’t count
 

MyFairLady

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That wasn't an "elite" QB making a play, that was just one of those great moments and I would say the catch was more impressive than the throw, he caught that thing stuck to the side of his head. That catch doesn't make that WR "elite", but it was still an all time great moment. Those plays could be described as "clutch", but it still doesn't make Eli elite.
You must not have watched any of those games because the guy made play after play after play that ripped the heart out of his opponents. Acting like that was the only play is crazy. He was an absolute boss and we all have to accept it and move on.
 

MyFairLady

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At the end of the day defending the guy who makes the most money and has the most responsibility gets old. If he was dropping dimes and dudes are letting him down that is one thing. This is something else. Are there bad plays being run? Yeah no doubt. Are receivers running bad routes? Sure are. Is the O line weak? You bet. Do the RBs suck? Most definitely. Is Dak responsible? Absolutely.
 
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