Bucky Brooks: "It's a myth that elite QBs single-handedly carry their teams to wins"

[Reality]

I heard/read a few respected former coaches say every team wants great coaching, great defense, and an elite QB. Two of those three will get you to the playoffs more times than not but it takes ALL to win a Super Bowl. Question(s)........does Brady win 4 Super Bowls w/o Belichick or Mahome win 3 if Jason Garrett was his coach instead of Andy Reid? I'm not pushing the goal post but Bucky said it's a myth that elite QBS can single-handedly carry a team to wins, the key word is single-handed. I will admit Brady and Mahomes are exceptions but even they have had HOF coaches.

Let's put it another way.......using your example. So over the last 10 years, are we to believe Brady and Mahomes are the only elite QBs coz they have 7 Super Bowls? To be honest your example is setting the standard for the elite QB pretty high in winning the Super Bowl. If that was the case then we would only have ONE elite QB each year.

I don't disagree but even the greatest QBs can't do it alone. Even they need some players around him playing at a high level. I think that is what Bucky is saying, which is why he used the word single-handedly.

Brady won a Super Bowl without Belichick and I said for years that would be the case because Brady is why they won Super Bowls, not Belichick.

Football is a team sport so of course no single player, even the best of all time, could single-handedly win a game, but a great quarterback can win you a game with an average team.

Some quarterbacks have great teams and cannot get anywhere near a Super Bowl, which the Cowboys know all too well these last 29 years.

There are elite quarterbacks who can help you win Super Bowls.

Then there are quarterbacks that need a great team around them to win a Super Bowl.

Unfortunately, there are also quarterbacks who cannot win a Super Bowl even with a great team around them.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

If so, then I agree .. if you exclude all of the great quarterbacks from the discussion then there are no elite quarterbacks

But there are some great/elite QBs but your post/example used winning the Super Bowl as the standard. That's a bit high IMO.......

 

[Reality]

But there are some great/elite QBs but your post/example used winning the Super Bowl as the standard. That's a bit high IMO.......

The goal of every NFL team every year is to win the Super Bowl. That may seem like a "high standard" to you, but it's the main reason NFL teams exist.

Regular season wins are nothing more than participation trophies if you cannot win in the post-season or get anywhere near a Super Bowl.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Brady won a Super Bowl without Belichick and I said for years that would be the case because Brady is why they won Super Bowls, not Belichick.

Football is a team sport so of course no single player, even the best of all time, could single-handedly win a game, but a great quarterback can win you a game with an average team.

Some quarterbacks have great teams and cannot get anywhere near a Super Bowl, which the Cowboys know all too well these last 29 years.

There are elite quarterbacks who can help you win Super Bowls.

Then there are quarterbacks that need a great team around them to win a Super Bowl.

Unfortunately, there are also quarterbacks who cannot win a Super Bowl even with a great team around them.

This is pretty close to what Bucky said ......
As for Brady...we will agree to disagree coz I don't think he win w/o Belichick and vice versa. As for the Super Bowl, with the Bucs........it's no secret ( even local fans ) that their defense won that game, shutting down KC's offense ( with Mahomes btw ).

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/tom-brady-super-bowl-stats-in-career

 

[JoeKing]

A good QB can keep you in a game when your D is trying to give the game away. So we have two things to fix. Better QB performance and better D.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Brady won a Super Bowl without Belichick and I said for years that would be the case because Brady is why they won Super Bowls, not Belichick.

Football is a team sport so of course no single player, even the best of all time, could single-handedly win a game, but a great quarterback can win you a game with an average team.

Some quarterbacks have great teams and cannot get anywhere near a Super Bowl, which the Cowboys know all too well these last 29 years.

There are elite quarterbacks who can help you win Super Bowls.

Then there are quarterbacks that need a great team around them to win a Super Bowl.

Unfortunately, there are also quarterbacks who cannot win a Super Bowl even with a great team around them.

Sorry, Reality.

Brady's SB winning 2021 Buccaneers team was not average. They were pretty good. The Buccaneers defense was ranked tied for 5th best for all of 2021 by giving up an average of only 19.8 points/game.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/team-stats?category=defense&season=2021

Even better, the 2021 Buccaneers offense was ranked #2, only one spot behind the Cowboys, averaging 30.1 points/game and accumulating 6, 901 total yards (2nd best on both against the Cowboys ranked #1 offense). According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL during the 2021 season.

LT Donovan Smith | 83.3
LG Ali Marpet | 84.0
C Ryan Jensen | 70.8
RG Alex Cappa | 74.2
RT Tristan Wirfs | 85.0

All five starters on the line received PFF grades of at least 70.8, and they were only rarely sidelined by injuries. The line also had a better pass-blocking efficiency score than Dallas, and they blocked for a shorter average time. As a result, Tom Brady, the Buccaneers' quarterback, was pressured on only 19.8% of his dropbacks, which was fewer than any other quarterback in the league. If anything, the line was even better in the run game, where every member earned at least a 70.0 PFF grade.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-...a Bay's line posted,missed time due to injury.

Tom Brady most definitely was surrounded by a top team overall (offense and defense), similar to what we see today in the 49ers. That's not to say Tom Brady didn't play a part on his team's succes, because he did, but he certainly was surrounded all around with some of the best players and coaches in the league that 2021 season.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Lol. This is just so sad.

What is sad is how after all of these years, you still don't know what you're talking about.

Here. Try to refute these facts. Patrick Mahomes has been the king of DINK & DUNK the past 2 seasons...



Can't wait to see you try to spin your way around these facts. Let's see who knows what they are talking about?

 

[Reality]

Sorry, Reality.

Brady's SB winning 2021 Buccaneers team was not average. They were pretty good. The Buccaneers defense was ranked tied for 5th best for all of 2021 by giving up an average of only 19.8 points/game.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/team-stats?category=defense&season=2021

Even better, the 2021 Buccaneers offense was ranked #2, only one spot behind the Cowboys, averaging 30.1 points/game and accumulating 6, 901 total yards (2nd best on both against the Cowboys ranked #1 offense). According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL during the 2021 season.

LT Donovan Smith | 83.3
LG Ali Marpet | 84.0
C Ryan Jensen | 70.8
RG Alex Cappa | 74.2
RT Tristan Wirfs | 85.0

All five starters on the line received PFF grades of at least 70.8, and they were only rarely sidelined by injuries. The line also had a better pass-blocking efficiency score than Dallas, and they blocked for a shorter average time. As a result, Tom Brady, the Buccaneers' quarterback, was pressured on only 19.8% of his dropbacks, which was fewer than any other quarterback in the league. If anything, the line was even better in the run game, where every member earned at least a 70.0 PFF grade.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings#:~:text=Only Tampa Bay's line posted,missed time due to injury.

Tom Brady most definitely was surrounded by a top team overall (offense and defense), similar to what we see today in the 49ers. That's not to say Tom Brady didn't play a part on his team's succes, because he did, but he certainly was surrounded all around with some of the best players and coaches in the league that 2021 season.

Brady was amazing at getting the ball out quick so of course his offensive line had great stats. If the Cowboys had that their line would have had great stats too.

I love how people try to explain how a 7-time Super Bowl winning quarterback was not actually great.

It's amazing to me the depths people will go to defend players who cannot win playoff games much less get anywhere near a Super Bowl.

At some point, you are what you are .. and you are not what you are not.

 

[Yobwocs]

I think Brady can only take credit for the last 3 Super Bowls with New England.

Those Super Bowls in the early 00s were the Patriots. They were 28-4 from 2003-2004. So those were teams that were top to bottom in all positions. It's more Belichick earlier. More Brady later.

The last 3 with the Patriots.....undoubtedly a kinda Brady golden age. That Falcons game he threw for 466 yards. The Eagles game where he threw for 500 yards. And that Chiefs game in the AFC Championship game. 2016-2021 Brady was really special.

I will say tho, that the rise of late career Brady coincided with the 2010s class of QBs. Brees, Rodgers and a newly minted Manning. Its gone down since those guys retired.

Basically it's Mahomes and everyone else right now.

 

[Reality]

I think Brady can only take credit for the last 3 Super Bowls with New England.

Those Super Bowls in the early 00s were the Patriots. They were 28-4 from 2003-2004. So those were teams that were top to bottom in all positions. It's more Belichick earlier. More Brady later.

The last 3 with the Patriots.....undoubtedly a kinda golden age. That Falcons game he threw for 466 yards. The Eagles game where he threw for 500 yards. And that Chiefs game in the AFC Championship game. 2016-2021 Brady was really special.

I will say tho, that the rise of late career Brady coincided with the 2010s class of QBs. Brees, Rodgers and a newly minted Manning. Its gone down since those guys retired.

Basically it's Mahomes and everyone else right now.

You are right .. Mahommes is an elite quarterback, and he has 3 Super Bowl wins at only 28 years old.

Smart teams should be trying to find the next Mahommes, not wasting money and time on quarterbacks who have spent years proving they cannot win the games when it matters.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Brady was amazing at getting the ball out quick so of course his offensive line had great stats. If the Cowboys had that their line would have had great stats too.

I love how people try to explain how a 7-time Super Bowl winning quarterback was not actually great.

It's amazing to me the depths people will go to defend players who cannot win playoff games much less get anywhere near a Super Bowl.

At some point, you are what you are .. and you are not what you are not.

I'm not knocking Brady, but to say he carried his Buccaneers team is simply not true. His whole team was among the best and helped each other win a Super Bowl in 2021. The stats don't lie.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/tb/season/2021/seasontype/2

 

[Yobwocs]

You are right .. Mahommes is an elite quarterback, and he has 3 Super Bowl wins at only 28 years old.

Smart teams should be trying to find the next Mahommes, not wasting money and time on quarterbacks who have spent years proving they cannot win the games when it matters.

You have staff member next to your name. You cannot have those kinda delusional expectations. We're not getting a Mahomes. We're not gonna land on the right side of that dice.

Realistic people don't entertain those kinda thoughts....Jerry and Stephen surely aren't doing that.

 

[CowboyoWales]

A good QB can keep you in a game when your D is trying to give the game away. So we have two things to fix. Better QB performance and better D.

..... spot on. It's not the categorization of the QB that matters, it's overcoming the weaknesses (of which every player has). Dak's weaknesses are front and center as they (his composure) comes to the fore year in year out at the critical moments.

The 2nd half 'comeback' vrs GB highlights the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.....as you say, keep the scoreboard pressure off Dak, otherwise he's likely to come up short.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I'm not knocking Brady, but to say he carried his Buccaneers team is simply not true. His whole team was among the best and helped each other win a Super Bowl in 2021. The stats don't lie.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/tb/season/2021/seasontype/2

But it's not about carrying, i'm sure Brady kept composure in a number of those post season drives. When you're driving that bus, you've got to be able to do it on dirt track as well as freeway.

 

[Yobwocs]

What is sad is how after all of these years, you still don't know what you're talking about.

Here. Try to refute these facts. Patrick Mahomes has been the king of DINK & DUNK the past 2 seasons...



Can't wait to see you try to spin your way around these facts. Let's see who knows what they are talking about?

Mahomes wasn't special in the most recent Super Bowl. 4 field goals and 1 regulation TD off of a punt turnover at the opponents 10 yard line.

The winner of the night, however, was the San Francisco defense. They REALLY came to play.

But the Chiefs defense which was special all year came to play too. That was a defensive Super Bowl. Defense definitely matters...no doubt about it. If there was a drastic difference between the 2 defenses who played in that Super Bowl...the much better defense most certainly wins that game.

 

[Chasing6]

I would argue that if team 1 has Mahomes and he has a $37m cap hit and team 2 has Dak with a $55m cap hit, team 1 has a massive advantage. In last year's super bowl, KC barely won and a lot of that had to do with the fact that the opponent had a very good QB on a $1m cap hit. That extra $36m put a lot of talent around that QB.

If you want to win in the NFL, you don't give good but not great QB's massive contracts. They all come up short and you hear the same things you have heard around Dallas going back to the Romo years "the defense sucks", "no running game", "no O line", etc. The salary cap makes it a zero sum game. The more you pay your QB, the less you pay everyone else.

If you really dig into the details, what NFL teams do is give QB's these massive deals that are actually backloaded, giving them a few year window where you have a pretty good QB on a small cap hit. Unfortunately for Cowboys fans, Dallas has frequently been using a lot of salary tricks so that the team ends up having dead money on its roster so they can't take advantage of it when they have a cheap QB. Dak's early years were wasted paying off the remainder of Romo's contract. His middle years were wasted paying off other people's inflated deals. Now his later years are just going to be him and his high cap hit choking the team of talent.

I agree team 1 has a massive advantage having a real GM. Dak's contract was for $40M a year for 4 years. Mahomes was $45M a year for 10 years, but keep telling yourself Dak cost more.

 

[RoboQB]

I agree team 1 has a massive advantage having a real GM. Dak's contract was for $40M a year for 4 years. Mahomes was $45M a year for 10 years, but keep telling yourself Dak cost more.

Actually, when you consider the fact that Dallas won't get Dak for $40M or $45M per year for an additional 6 years, KC has a much better deal with Mahomes.
Not to mention all those Lombardi Trophies.

 

[Chasing6]

Yeah, Mahomes was so great, he dink and dunked his team to a SB win all game long! Yes, Mahomes is soooo Great and gets worshipped by Dak haters for dink-n-dunking his way to a close won championship game!

Mahomes got lucky with a muffed punt fumble inside Niners 15 and with a block extra point or never makes it to OT and he losses that game.

He got lucky.

 

[Chasing6]

Actually, when you consider the fact that Dallas won't get Dak for $40M or $45M per year for an additional 6 years, KC has a much better deal with Mahomes.
Not to mention all those Lombardi Trophies.

Mahomes Cap hit in 2025 $66M, 2026 $68M, 2027 $64M and don't be surprised when they redo his deal.

They also can walk from Mahomes in 2027 for just $17M Dead Cap hit if they wanted to.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

You didn’t watch the Cowboys defense against GB obviously.

Dak threw two interceptions, including a pick 6 and the other that led to a free GB TD. Yes, the defense was porous, but if he was a little more careful with the football then the halftime score could have just as easily been 13-7 or 16-10 instead of 27-0.

The offense’s performance always heavily impacts the defense’s performance, and vice versa.