Clarity forming on who Dallas will pick at #4

[CrownCowboy]

I may be in the minority here, but I am not interested in a player that only had three interceptions in three years in college. I'm sure his measurables and metrics on the field at the combine were great. I'm sure he is a good athlete. However, at the number 4 pick, we need an impact playmaker that will be a gamechanger immediately. What this defense needs is turnovers. This defense needs some pick 6's. This defense needs a lockdown defender on the outside. If that player is available at the 4 spot then I'm fine with it. I don't think Ramsey is that player. A good player that will probably be the best defender in someone's secondary for six to eight years, but nothing spectacular, imo.

I'm sorry, but if you can't pick the ball off in college you ain't gonna learn how miraculously in the NFL.

Don't want Ramsey.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Oh really, did you know Ed Reed was going to be Ed Reed before he was drafted? This entire thing is a lottery.

good article about the pick
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2002-04-21/sports/0204210199_1_ed-reed-ravens-jamal-lewis

 

[DeaconMoss]

Or...

"Ramsey's tape doesn't show a fraction of what Reed's did"

Ramsey is a SS. He impacts the game at the LOS and with the blitz.

 

[texbumthelife]

Ramsey is a SS. He impacts the game at the LOS and with the blitz.

Yes! Finally someone who sees it like me. I have been saying this for months now. Not just with the blitz though, he is an expert at jumping those short and intermediate lanes and reading the screens.

 

[jday]

I've heard this now from David Moore, Mike Fisher, Dane Brugler, and a couple of other local insiders.

Dallas' pick will be either Jalen Ramsey or Ezekiel Elliott. If they're both there, Dallas will take Ramsey. Joey Bosa is out of the running at 4.

San Diego is not going to take Ramsey, but they might trade out of the pick so another team can. That's likely the only way Dallas takes Elliott.

Unless, of course, Dallas is trades down, but those partners aren't expected to be willing to give up much.

Sounds like Jalen Ramsey it most likely will be. I'm fine with the pick, but I'd much rather have Elliott because I want immediate impact.

But if Ramsey is an Ed Reed type of player, then I'll get over it just fine.

There's supposed to be a lot of defensive linemen in Rounds 2 and 3.

Therein is the rub; Ramsey is not Ed Reed...from what I've read and heard, he is Byron Jones 2.0. Maybe a little more polished but definitely not a playmaker of the take the ball away and take it the house variety.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Think the other HOF safety from the last decade. Jalen is much more Troy P than he is Ed R.

I'll just say I disagree, to me, he's an aggressive and physical CB, not a safety. Maybe use him the way Monte Kiffin used Ronde Barber. Obviously I would not expect the 10 int spike in 2001, but the majority of Barber's career he was a 2-3 int guy. More importantly, he also had 28 career sacks, 20 of which came between 1998-2005.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Yes! Finally someone who sees it like me. I have been saying this for months now. Not just with the blitz though, he is an expert at jumping those short and intermediate lanes and reading the screens.

totally agree. Most havent watched him if they think he is a corner. Ramseys highlights are TFL, sacks, batted down passes, jumping screens and short TE routes.

 

[lkelly]

I would take Carlos Hyde in a heartbeat.

Carlos Hyde, the 2nd round pick who has rushed for a grand total of 800 yards in 2 seasons? So far has been outperformed by the following backs from the same draft:

Devonta Freeman
Jeremy Hill
Tre Mason
Alfred Blue
Isaiah Crowell
Andre Williams
Terrance West

Charles Sims and Jerick McKinnon have close to the same career rushing yards as well. Hyde was the first back taken in that draft.

#impressive

Let's try for another Urban Meyer system back that has lived up to his billing.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Therein is the rub; Ramsey is not Ed Reed...from what I've read and heard, he is Byron Jones 2.0. Maybe a little more polished but definitely not a playmaker of the take the ball away and take it the house variety.

I agree that they are very similar, but I just can't take anything you say seriously. When ever I read your posts, it's with Danny McBride's voice

 

[ConceptCoop]

But he didn't. This wasn't a blip one year. This was his entire college career.

There again, I am not even saying he won't/can't. I am simply saying that expecting him to suddenly be a ball-hawk is an egregious reach.

I don't think it's a reach at all. He wasn't asked to be a ball hawk at FSU as a Junior. When he was in 2014, he was very productive. He has shown the range, closing speed, ability to defend the pass, and physicality needed. Again, if we assume he can catch, he's not going to keep catching potential picks at a 50% rate. It's a very small sample size and potentially just a bad one for him, rather than a typical one.

In 2014, he had 80 tackles, 10 for loss (!!!!), 2 picks, 12 pass breakups, 2 picks and 4 forced fumbles. That's a ball hawk.

 

[texbumthelife]

Carlos Hyde, the 2nd round pick who has rushed for a grand total of 800 yards in 2 seasons? So far has been outperformed by the following backs from the same draft:

Devonta Freeman
Jeremy Hill
Tre Mason
Alfred Blue
Isaiah Crowell
Andre Williams
Terrance West

Charles Sims and Jerick McKinnon have close to the same career rushing yards as well. Hyde was the first back taken in that draft.

#impressive

Let's try for another Urban Meyer system back that has lived up to his billing.

I'd still take Carlos Hyde in a heartbeat. These things don't happen in a vacuum. System .Offensive line talent (of which San Fran has none). Depth chart. All these things and more effect what a running back puts on paper. Would you take Joseph Randle over Hyde? No? Why not? His numbers are better in a vacuum.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Think the other HOF safety from the last decade. Jalen is much more Troy P than he is Ed R.

If Ramsey is Troy P, run to the podium then.

 

[cowboys2233]

I've heard this now from David Moore, Mike Fisher, Dane Brugler, and a couple of other local insiders.

Dallas' pick will be either Jalen Ramsey or Ezekiel Elliott. If they're both there, Dallas will take Ramsey. Joey Bosa is out of the running at 4.

I don't believe any of this. Sorry, the team is not going to inundate these "local insiders" with information about their true intentions the day before the draft. Might be trying to drum up trade offers or discourage someone from trading with San Diego and stealing the player we really like (I've heard both Chicago and Miami are infatuated with Elliott). Whatever it is, there is certainly an agenda behind their comments.

 

[DeaconMoss]

I don't think it's a reach at all. He wasn't asked to be a ball hawk at FSU as a Junior. When he was in 2014, he was very productive. He has shown the range, closing speed, ability to defend the pass, and physicality needed. Again, if we assume he can catch, he's not going to keep catching potential picks at a 50% rate. It's a very small sample size and potentially just a bad one for him, rather than a typical one.

In 2014, he had 80 tackles, 10 for loss (!!!!), 2 picks, 12 pass breakups, 2 picks and 4 forced fumbles. That's a ball hawk.

thats what Im saying hes a SS. 10 TFL 4 FF, 12 breakups

 

[texbumthelife]

I don't think it's a reach at all. He wasn't asked to be a ball hawk at FSU as a Junior. When he was in 2014, he was very productive. He has shown the range, closing speed, ability to defend the pass, and physicality needed. Again, if we assume he can catch, he's not going to keep catching potential picks at a 50% rate. It's a very small sample size and potentially just a bad one for him, rather than a typical one.

In 2014, he had 80 tackles, 10 for loss (!!!!), 2 picks, 12 pass breakups, 2 picks and 4 forced fumbles. That's a ball hawk.

Once again, he wasn't a ball hawk. You're blindly defending Ramsey and completely missing the argument. That all makes him a great player and talent, but not a ball hawk.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I don't think it's a reach at all. He wasn't asked to be a ball hawk at FSU as a Junior. When he was in 2014, he was very productive. He has shown the range, closing speed, ability to defend the pass, and physicality needed. Again, if we assume he can catch, he's not going to keep catching potential picks at a 50% rate. It's a very small sample size and potentially just a bad one for him, rather than a typical one.

In 2014, he had 80 tackles, 10 for loss (!!!!), 2 picks, 12 pass breakups, 2 picks and 4 forced fumbles. That's a ball hawk.

no it isn't. William Jackson this year has 23 passes defended and 5 ints, I'd say he at least shows the potential to be a ball hawk, but it's far from definitive with him even.

 

[lkelly]

I'd still take Carlos Hyde in a heartbeat. These things don't happen in a vacuum. System .Offensive line talent (of which San Fran has none). Depth chart. All these things and more effect what a running back puts on paper. Would you take Joseph Randle over Hyde? No? Why not? His numbers are better in a vacuum.

No, I think both of those backs stink. Most of the backs I listed are pedestrian. I wouldn't take them in a coma heartbeat.

 

[texbumthelife]

thats what Im saying hes a SS. 10 TFL 4 FF, 12 breakups

Apparently tackles are part of being a ball hawk now...

 

[Manwiththeplan]

thats what Im saying hes a SS. 10 TFL 4 FF, 12 breakups

I think people want to prematurely move physical CBs to safety, to me I'd use him at CB and just allow him to blitz quite a bit, ala Ronde Barber or Charles Woodson. I think he does have good cover skills, so I'd want to take advantage of that and keep him at CB as opposed to safety, even if he never turns into a consistent 5+ int guy.

 

[tyke1doe]

If Ramsey really is our guy, why the hell didn't we keep our mouths shut about it? It's going to feel like a punch in the gut if a team trades up to snag him ahead of us.

Me blow-a smoke screen-a.