Climate Change

[jobberone]

Here's the site.

http://www.petitionproject.org

It's just awful. Not only in methodology but look at the site itself. How dated is that thing?

It was mail order and they had zero way of guaranteeing that the people were actually alive.

They would send their flyer in bulk so people could pass them around to friends. So 1 guy gets a bunch, fills them all out with different names and who's to say they weren't separate people.

Edit:

The requirement was a B.S.

That's about par for the course.

 

[jrumann59]

You guys are getting lost arguing stats. Just use your common sense. Look around and see what we are doing on a daily basis? Have you been to China? Some days you can't even see more than 100 yards. Have you ever flown into LA and seen the brown layer of crap? Every spring here in San Antonio we get haze from the Mexican farmers burning their fields before planting season. This crap is going on daily all over the world. Much worse in some places than here. Anyone who doesn't think that is having a long term effect on the climate is just not being honest with themselves.

Pollution sux but do you know what happens to most of it? It falls back to earth into the oceans where it sinks to the bottom of the ocean. The earths ecology has a way of dealing with these things because it has been dealing with these things long before man. I do not favor wonton abuse but blaming <insert bad company> while lining pockets <insert good company> because all corporations are flipsides of the same coin.

 

[Rockport]

Pollution sux but do you know what happens to most of it? It falls back to earth into the oceans where it sinks to the bottom of the ocean. The earths ecology has a way of dealing with these things because it has been dealing with these things long before man. I do not favor wonton abuse but blaming <insert bad company> while lining pockets <insert good company> because all corporations are flipsides of the same coin.

Yea, and the Earth is flat. SMH..

 

[jrumann59]

Watch the show that addressed what would happen if mankind just disappeared on discovery or TLC.

 

[jobberone]

You guys are getting lost arguing stats. Just use your common sense. Look around and see what we are doing on a daily basis? Have you been to China? Some days you can't even see more than 100 yards. Have you ever flown into LA and seen the brown layer of crap? Every spring here in San Antonio we get haze from the Mexican farmers burning their fields before planting season. This crap is going on daily all over the world. Much worse in some places than here. Anyone who doesn't think that is having a long term effect on the climate is just not being honest with themselves.

I don't hear one person saying there is no effect on the climate via human use of fossil fuels.

And yes I've been to China. I avoid Beijing as much as possible.

If you respond to all that's been said with the above you are cutting debate off. You are right in that many places (many many) are worse than here. And that's a huge point. The US is not going to effect the environment very much by using resources before its time and avoiding the use of fossil fuels at all costs. Now I'm not saying we don't need to be careful with our environment. I'm saying the US isn't going to stop any possible, or probable if you wish, global warming by adopting many of the measures some cry for.

 

[jrumann59]

I don't hear one person saying there is no effect on the climate via human use of fossil fuels.

And yes I've been to China. I avoid Beijing as much as possible.

If you respond to all that's been said with the above you are cutting debate off. You are right in that many places (many many) are worse than here. And that's a huge point. The US is not going to effect the environment very much by using resources before its time and avoiding the use of fossil fuels at all costs. Now I'm not saying we don't need to be careful with our environment. I'm saying the US isn't going to stop any possible, or probable if you wish, global warming by adopting many of the measures some cry for.

That was the reason why we did not sign Kyoto, because it provided exclusions to India and China.

 

[jrumann59]

The irony is most of the components for solar panels, and turbines are made in either india or china.

 

[Rockport]

I don't hear one person saying there is no effect on the climate via human use of fossil fuels.

And yes I've been to China. I avoid Beijing as much as possible.

If you respond to all that's been said with the above you are cutting debate off. You are right in that many places (many many) are worse than here. And that's a huge point. The US is not going to effect the environment very much by using resources before its time and avoiding the use of fossil fuels at all costs. Now I'm not saying we don't need to be careful with our environment. I'm saying the US isn't going to stop any possible, or probable if you wish, global warming by adopting many of the measures some cry for.

All the facts are there for anyone to see. If you refuse to believe them, then there's no need to debate. I can tell there's underlying political motives here. It's asinine for anyone to base their opinion based on that. Have fun with this thread and you better hope like hell that those of you who think climate change is a hoax are correct.

 

[jobberone]

All the facts are there for anyone to see. If you refuse to believe them, then there's no need to debate. I can tell there's underlying political motives here. It's asinine for anyone to base their opinion based on that. Have fun with this thread and you better hope like hell that those of you who think climate change is a hoax are correct.

Again no one said that and no one has come close to being political. I resent your implying I was being political when I've gone out of my way to present facts favoring either position. I've said there is no need to fall on any side of this debate esp in the manner you just did.

You're welcome to bow out of any conversation on this site at any time. There's no need to announce it.

 

[Rockport]

Again no one said that and no one has come close to being political. I resent your implying I was being political when I've gone out of my way to present facts favoring either position. I've said there is no need to fall on any side of this debate esp in the manner you just did.

You're welcome to bow out of any conversation on this site at any time. There's no need to announce it.

I apologize for lumping you in the generalization I made.

 

[jobberone]

I apologize for lumping you in the generalization I made.

accepted. Takes a gentleman to apologize. Thanks.

 

[Rogah]

I'll agree with the 98% of world scientists who say it's man made and going to get worse.

Except that's not what 98% of scientists say. Roughly 2/3rd of scientists writing papers on the subject say there is not enough data to support any conclusion.

The 98% number comes from the fact that of scientists giving an opinion, 98% say it is real. However, fact remains that the significantly majority of scientists say the data are inconclusive.

 

[Rogah]

Mercury thermometers have been around for about 300 years.

This is true, but mercury thermometers aren't exactly a smart, reliable way to determine global average temperature - especially the quality of thermometers made 300 years ago.

 

[Rogah]

The research looked into peer-reviewed literature from 1991 to 2011 specifically on "global climate change" or "global warming." In abstracts taking a position on anthropogenic global warming, 97.1 percent of the abstracts supported the view that humans are causing global warming.

http://www.syracuse.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/07/global_warming_climate_change_is_real.html

Key words: In abstracts taking a position. As I noted above, fact remains that roughly 2/3rd of abstracts say there is not enough data to support any conclusion.

So I side with the overwhelming majority of scientists who say there just isn't enough information to make any definitive conclusions.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I believe it is mostly man made, certainly the speed of it is man made. I burned when we had lower temps and an ozone layer so I still do but I do know that when I first moved to Vancouver in 1980, there were maybe 10 nights a summer when you didn't need to wear a sweater, but now it is maybe 10 nights a summer you need one.

Our summers are drier too.

 

[jrumann59]

I believe it is mostly man made, certainly the speed of it is man made. I burned when we had lower temps and an ozone layer so I still do but I do know that when I first moved to Vancouver in 1980, there were maybe 10 nights a summer when you didn't need to wear a sweater, but now it is maybe 10 nights a summer you need one.

Our summers are drier too.

Anectdotal evidence does not show anything. Man took over the planet after a glacial ice age, you know where majority of the planet was covered with ice. To say that the average or median temp should be X, when we have no definitive proof that it should be X, maybe some times for long period it is Z, or D, or V. Beyond equations and scientific guess based on ice cores, earth cores there are way to many variables to make a definitive answer. The Magnetic Pole Shift, one side effect is Ozone Holes, climate change, solar radiation, ocean current changes. Now take all that throw it in blender and tell me what the temperature of the planet should be. The dinosaurs had planet that probably averaged 60-70F world wide where as right now the earth's avg is 50 degrees. So what is the Earth's Optimal temperature.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

So you don't believe in warming?

 

[iceberg]

Anectdotal evidence does not show anything. Man took over the planet after a glacial ice age, you know where majority of the planet was covered with ice. To say that the average or median temp should be X, when we have no definitive proof that it should be X, maybe some times for long period it is Z, or D, or V. Beyond equations and scientific guess based on ice cores, earth cores there are way to many variables to make a definitive answer. The Magnetic Pole Shift, one side effect is Ozone Holes, climate change, solar radiation, ocean current changes. Now take all that throw it in blender and tell me what the temperature of the planet should be. The dinosaurs had planet that probably averaged 60-70F world wide where as right now the earth's avg is 50 degrees. So what is the Earth's Optimal temperature.

agreed.

short term findings are **** on a billion year scale. how much did the planet change before we got here? how many after?

you can't not look at this emotionally.

 

[iceberg]

[quote="] So what is the Earth's Optimal temperature.[/quote]

optimal for what?

you and i to talk?
species to live or die?

it's not to understand how we affect the world around us as it is for us to learn about it.

we orbit.
we're close to the sun
we're far from the sun.
we mooned the sun but it cost us $12.00.

in our own lifetime we've come to say we should understand billions o f years based on our own 30.

maybe the igs got here long long ago.

what is the baseline every other conclusion is centered around? both sides reach but that only means neither side knows.

but you'd never get that by talking to them.

it's stupid to say billions of people don't have an effect on the environment.

it's just as stupid to say as living is killing us.

until we fix that, the rest is just break room chatter.

 

[burmafrd]

So you don't believe in warming?

you are always wrong so we can take comfort from that.