Climate Change

[burmafrd]

All the facts are there for anyone to see. If you refuse to believe them, then there's no need to debate. I can tell there's underlying political motives here. It's asinine for anyone to base their opinion based on that. Have fun with this thread and you better hope like hell that those of you who think climate change is a hoax are correct.

anytime someone claims 'facts' they have already lost the arguement. One person's 'facts' are anothers 'opinions'

 

[burmafrd]

You guys are getting lost arguing stats. Just use your common sense. Look around and see what we are doing on a daily basis? Have you been to China? Some days you can't even see more than 100 yards. Have you ever flown into LA and seen the brown layer of crap? Every spring here in San Antonio we get haze from the Mexican farmers burning their fields before planting season. This crap is going on daily all over the world. Much worse in some places than here. Anyone who doesn't think that is having a long term effect on the climate is just not being honest with themselves.

and anyone using anecdotal evidence always looses.

 

[burmafrd]

Sure there's variation.

I just think it's incredibly naive to think that some of the worlds best minds haven't factored that in. As if NASA hasn't considered this aspect? It's just nonsensical, IMO.

To what degree you want to follow their train of thought regarding the cause, that's up to you.

Trying to undermine the entire argument based on temperature measurements seems like a poor route to take.

scientists have been proven wrong 10-20 years after everyone thought they were right. Happens again and again. On the thermometers:

where were they placed? How many? were they all constructed the same? Can you duplicate EXACTLY how they were made back then?

No you can't, can you? That is why any temperatures taken say 100 years ago or more are frankly virtually USELESS as regards any real scientific requirement.

 

[Hoofbite]

scientists have been proven wrong 10-20 years after everyone thought they were right. Happens again and again. On the thermometers:

where were they placed? How many? were they all constructed the same? Can you duplicate EXACTLY how they were made back then?

No you can't, can you? That is why any temperatures taken say 100 years ago or more are frankly virtually USELESS as regards any real scientific requirement.

Is there any topic in which you aren't the world's foremost authority? Just curious.

 

[Hoofbite]

As for the thermometer issue.

It doesn't matter how they're made or if they're even the same size.

So long as we both mark a line where water boils - and mark a line where it freezes - we have all the info needed.

Since nobody has done this before, I'll just make up a scale and for simplicity....

0 is freezing and 100 is boiling.

Split the middle space up into an evenly spaced number of tick marks and there we go.

 

[burmafrd]

As for the thermometer issue.

It doesn't matter how they're made or if they're even the same size.

So long as we both mark a line where water boils - and mark a line where it freezes - we have all the info needed.

Since nobody has done this before, I'll just make up a scale and for simplicity....

0 is freezing and 100 is boiling.

Split the middle space up into an evenly spaced number of tick marks and there we go.

that has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

 

[burmafrd]

Is there any topic in which you aren't the world's foremost authority? Just curious.

its called reason, common sense and logic. Try it sometime.

 

[Doomsday101]

I believe in natural Climate change the earth has gone through many climate changes and will continue to go through change and I think man has little impact on it.

 

[Hoofbite]

that has to be one of the dumbest things ever posted here.

Gonna elaborate?

 

[BigStar]

and anyone using anecdotal evidence always looses...anytime someone claims 'facts' they have already lost the argument.

 

[DFWJC]

I think some have less issue with straight measurements than they do with elaborate ways the dots are connected with certain data points. It's a 4 dimensional (at least) issue with so many variables and moving targets, it's impossible to currently draw "certain" conclusions.

To further mess up the issue, there have been many recent allegations of data tampering, as literally trillions of dollars can be "reallocated" by a central organization based on conclusions.

It may be the biggest power grap I modern history.
I just hope they get this right one way or the other.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Dansgaard-Oeschger cycles have been researched and shown to occur in 1500 year cycles, taking the form of rapid warming episodes, typically in a matter of decades, each followed by gradual cooling over a longer period.

Planetary warming cycles have been observed on Mars (where ice caps are also melting), Jupiter, Pluto, and Neptune's moon Titan--though, causation and/or correlation to Earth's cycles is not being implied, but interesting nonetheless.

There has been an unexplained pause in global warming: Between 1979 — when weather satellites started measuring temperatures in the lower troposphere — and 1997, they rose about 1.1 degrees Celsius (1.98 degrees Fahrenheit).
Temperatures stopped rising then, have fallen since 2012. The “pause” in warming (212 months) is now longer than the warming trend was (211 months).

Carbon released in out atmosphere by mankind may have an accelerating effect, but I don't think it is the main culprit.
That's is not to say that we shouldn't continue to progress past fossil fuels-- a finite resource responsible for some of the major conflicts on our planet--but, we need to be very careful who we give the authority to regulate such matters and I don't believe it should be a international body of any sort. We should keep our regulation as decentralized as possible.

 

[burmafrd]

Gonna elaborate?

You do not appear to be smart enough for an explanation to be worth the time.

 

[burmafrd]

Dansgaard-Oeschger cycles have been researched and shown to occur in 1500 year cycles, taking the form of rapid warming episodes, typically in a matter of decades, each followed by gradual cooling over a longer period.

Planetary warming cycles have been observed on Mars (where ice caps are also melting), Jupiter, Pluto, and Neptune's moon Titan--though, causation and/or correlation to Earth's cycles is not being implied, but interesting nonetheless.

There has been an unexplained pause in global warming: Between 1979 — when weather satellites started measuring temperatures in the lower troposphere — and 1997, they rose about 1.1 degrees Celsius (1.98 degrees Fahrenheit).
Temperatures stopped rising then, have fallen since 2012. The “pause” in warming (212 months) is now longer than the warming trend was (211 months).

Carbon released in out atmosphere by mankind may have an accelerating effect, but I don't think it is the main culprit.
That's is not to say that we shouldn't continue to progress past fossil fuels-- a finite resource responsible for some of the major conflicts on our planet--but, we need to be very careful who we give the authority to regulate such matters and I don't believe it should be a international body of any sort. We should keep our regulation as decentralized as possible.

problem is that this has become so politicised that any regulation is going to be that way first rather then anything that really needs to be done.

what is most offensive is those calling this proven and settled science and anyone disagreeing a 'denier'. That tells people with common sense and logic that the GW crowd are NOWHERE NEAR as certain as they 'claim'. Only those with doubt respond so viciously to those that question them. There simply is not enough historical records available to support any of this man made claim; and those harping on the computer models neglect to admit that those models over the last few years have proven innacurate.

 

[Hoofbite]

You do not appear to be smart enough for an explanation to be worth the time.

No, please do. If not for me then for those who are smart enough.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

you are always wrong so we can take comfort from that.

Oh Marine, you think you are so funny but as usual you fail at any attempt at humour you make.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Anectdotal evidence does not show anything. Man took over the planet after a glacial ice age, you know where majority of the planet was covered with ice. To say that the average or median temp should be X, when we have no definitive proof that it should be X, maybe some times for long period it is Z, or D, or V. Beyond equations and scientific guess based on ice cores, earth cores there are way to many variables to make a definitive answer. The Magnetic Pole Shift, one side effect is Ozone Holes, climate change, solar radiation, ocean current changes. Now take all that throw it in blender and tell me what the temperature of the planet should be. The dinosaurs had planet that probably averaged 60-70F world wide where as right now the earth's avg is 50 degrees. So what is the Earth's Optimal temperature.

well since we will never know, might as well do nothing, keep sending as much into atmosphere as we feel like sending, who cares right?

 

[DFWJC]

well since we will never know, might as well do nothing, keep sending as much into atmosphere as we feel like sending, who cares right?

Cutting in...
Pretty sure nobody here came close to saying anything like that, CCF

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Cutting in...
Pretty sure nobody here came close to saying anything like that, CCF

Well to say well we don't know what the temp should be that it always changes etc implies there really is no need to do anything since we will never know.

There is no way to gauge what the temp should be, but it is getting warmer. If people want to ignore that, fine, just don't cry when your house is destroyed in a wildfire, category 5 Hurricane etc. Weather is getting more severe. That is beyond dispute. It doesn't matter what it did 70 million years ago. All that matters is what is going on now.

 

[John813]

I believe in natural Climate change the earth has gone through many climate changes and will continue to go through change and I think man has little impact on it.

This is where I stand too.
Mans impact can be debated, but, the main factors to climate change will be the Earth and the sun.