Completely a rumor, but...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think the deal you're referring to involved trading up for Calvin Johnson, not Roy Williams.



I think Williams is a rare athlete who is good now but could be great. And he's a proven top NFL receiver - to some he's Top 10 - others Top 15. However you'd rate him, he's one of the better receivers in the league.

And that's playing for a woeful Detroit Lions team with subpar quarterback and offensive line play.

I think Williams could fulfill his true potential playing in Dallas.

Last year he was 34th in yards and receptions.

The year before that he was 16th and 3rd.

In 2005 he wasnt even in the top 40 in yards or receptions.

In 2004 he was 36th in yards and didnt ,make the top 40 in receptions.

Can you say overrated? Hes not elite sorry but hes just not. He has had one good year and that is it. He tanked the next season.

 

[TwentyOne]

Ellis and Henry are both big contributors here. But with a #2 like Roy Williams we'd hardly need a defense.

yeah and with that trade we could end up hardly havin one either.

 

[Tovya]

I think you make good points but I also think that there is a flip side to this line or reasoning. Henry, the past three seasons has been injured. What are the chances that Henry will stay healthy or will even be able to play CB for us? He may well be a safety. Ellis could be every bit as good as he was last year but he may also suffer a reoccurance season. It can happen. Either way, neither of those players are long for the show IMO. I guess I just look at this and say to myself that for the Cowboys to be able to draft a player like Roy Williams, it is going to be expensive because we are not going to have the kind of pick it would take to be in position to take that kind of player. We would have to trade up and that's never cheap. We would also have to develop that player which means another couple of seasons. If we are going to win now, then I think we need to bring in a vet WR to finish the offense. The whole Super Bowl season thing would come to a crashing hault if we lost TO for any length of time. Without him, our offense is not nearly as productive. If you have a Roy Williams on the team, then you could afford to lose TO for a few games and still win. I think you have to weigh the factors and see which eventuallity is more risky.

No doubt. Either way is a risk.

I do see the possibility of getting him for draft picks as still an option. Williams is pointless in their offense with Kitna at the QB helm anyway, and it's time for Detroit to look into the complete rebuilding process... and I doubt getting 2 aged defensive players is going to do very much for their bottom line and future... that's why it will never happen anyway.

They would probably consider an offer for Williams if it was something that helped their long term future.. but they had an absolutely disgusting defense last season, and Henry and Ellis wouldn't do much to help it really.

 

[Hostile]

I think we need that third passrusher very badly. Look at how it helped the Giants last year.

And that's not even to mention the possibility of injury. Right now we'd be okay if someone got hurt. But do you want Rogers or Walden or whoever backing up outside?

Now Spears and Henry, I'd think hard about. Better be darn sure about Pacman, though, which is still a gamble.

I believe Ratliff at LDE will provide the pass rush as the 3rd guy.

 

[Stash]

Last year he was 34th in yards and receptions.

In 12 games

The year before that he was 16th and 3rd.

3rd in receiving yards? I'd say that was pretty good. Pro Bowl good. And look! It was!

In 2005 he wasnt even in the top 40 in yards or receptions.

In 2004 he was 36th in yards and didnt ,make the top 40 in receptions.

Can you say overrated? Hes not elite sorry but hes just not. He has had one good year and that is it. He tanked the next season.

League consensus says that he's a top receiver, people can debate their opinions on the rest.

On his worst day, he's better than any receiver on the Cowboys' roster not named Owens.

And missing 9 games out of 64 doesn't scream 'injury prone' to me.

 

[Hostile]

Hey at least I make a case for my position. One which I don't hear the slightest rrebuttal. Ellis is a damn fine pass rusher and one of the best in the league last year as supported by his sack totals.

RW ended his season last year hurt and has been hurt every year he has been in the league save one. then there are contract issues. Its one year of RW and then $8 mil a year if were lucky after that whereas Ellis is signed for multiple years for a pittance.

How about you make a case rather than just blindly babbling...

I haven't defended my position ad nauseum regarding RW and was blindly babbling?

 

[The30YardSlant]

Gotta say, I'd do it in a heartbeat. We are STACKED at LB and have two young, talented players who would battle it out for Ellis' OLB spot (Spencer was likely going to be starting at some point this year, anyway).

Losing Henry would hurt, but we are much deeper at corner than at WR. I don't feel bad about throwing out Newman, Pacman and Jenkins in our nickel defense.

An offense that runs out Owens, RW, Crayton, Witten, Barber, Jones, Romo, and our O-Line would give the Patriots 2007 records a run for their money.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In 12 games



3rd in receiving yards? I'd say that was pretty good. Pro Bowl good. And look! It was!



League consensus says that he's a top receiver, people can debate their opinions on the rest.

On his worst day, he's better than any receiver on the Cowboys' roster not named Owens.

And missing 9 games out of 64 doesn't scream 'injury prone' to me.

League consensus? Show one shred of proof that league execs think that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I haven't defended my position ad nauseum regarding RW and was blindly babbling?

Brah I wasnt referrrig to you. I know you can back up what you say. I also know pep doesn't.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Last year he was 34th in yards and receptions.

The year before that he was 16th and 3rd.

In 2005 he wasnt even in the top 40 in yards or receptions.

In 2004 he was 36th in yards and didnt ,make the top 40 in receptions.

Can you say overrated? Hes not elite sorry but hes just not. He has had one good year and that is it. He tanked the next season.

I can not go along with this evaluation. I realize you will not agree with my reasoning but it does not change the fact that you are not contexting this in relation to where this player is at in his career. Williams has only played 4 seasons in the NFL. Typically, it takes 2 or 3 seasons just to get the position down. You totally discount the fact that he has not played in a good offense, with a good QB or with a strong defensive unit. All of these things impact his numbers. I do not contest the fact that Williams has missed games in the past. In fact, over the last 4 years, he has missed 13 games. However, his production over the last two seasons is as follows:

5.2 Rec. per game.
76.7 Yards per game.
14.7 YPR
.43 TDs per game.

Everybody is very up for signing a WR like Boldin, and I am also. However, if you compare the last two seasons for both of these players, the statistical comparision is very simular. Yet there is a certain segmant of fans who frown on Williams but would gladly sign Boldin. These players, over the last few seasons, are almost identical.

Boldin:

28 games played.
154 Rec.
2056 yards
13.35 YPR
13 TDs

Williams:

28 games played.
146 Rec.
2148 yards
14.71 YPR
12 TDs

I mean, I just don't get it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No doubt. Either way is a risk.

I do see the possibility of getting him for draft picks as still an option. Williams is pointless in their offense with Kitna at the QB helm anyway, and it's time for Detroit to look into the complete rebuilding process... and I doubt getting 2 aged defensive players is going to do very much for their bottom line and future... that's why it will never happen anyway.

They would probably consider an offer for Williams if it was something that helped their long term future.. but they had an absolutely disgusting defense last season, and Henry and Ellis wouldn't do much to help it really.

I totally agree. I stated earlier that there is no way I could ever see this happening. I'm simply discussing the merrits of the trade, if it were to happen.

I am in 100% agreement with you. I believe that we are just talking to pass time here. Nothing will come of this partifular trade at this time. At least, that's my opinion.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can not go along with this evaluation. I realize you will not agree with my reasoning but it does not change the fact that you are not contexting this in relation to where this player is at in his career. Williams has only played 4 seasons in the NFL. Typically, it takes 2 or 3 seasons just to get the position down. You totally discount the fact that he has not played in a good offense, with a good QB or with a strong defensive unit. All of these things impact his numbers. I do not contest the fact that Williams has missed games in the past. In fact, over the last 4 years, he has missed 13 games. However, his production over the last two seasons is as follows:

5.2 Rec. per game.
76.7 Yards per game.
14.7 YPR
.43 TDs per game.

Everybody is very up for signing a WR like Boldin, and I am also. However, if you compare the last two seasons for both of these players, the statistical comparision is very simular. Yet there is a certain segmant of fans who frown on Williams but would gladly sign Boldin. These players, over the last few seasons, are almost identical.

Boldin:

28 games played.
154 Rec.
2056 yards
13.35 YPR
13 TDs

Williams:

28 games played.
146 Rec.
2148 yards
14.71 YPR
12 TDs

I mean, I just don't get it.

I wouldn't give Ellis up for Boldin either.

He had 12.5 sacks in 12 games and has probably the best contract in the league for a pass rusher of that quality.

 

[Tovya]

I totally agree. I stated earlier that there is no way I could ever see this happening. I'm simply discussing the merrits of the trade, if it were to happen.

I am in 100% agreement with you. I believe that we are just talking to pass time here. Nothing will come of this partifular trade at this time. At least, that's my opinion.

Me too. But it's fun none-the-less to speculate and pretend like we're all little Jerrys with the big red button to push.

If Henry goes down for the season, we can all debate later as to why we didn't make this fantasy trade... and if Ellis gets the Superbowl winning sack in XLIII, we can all wipe our brows in celebration that we kept them around. That's the NFL for you... you never know how a season can be made or broken off of one lousy play.

 

[cowboys2233]

Boldin:

28 games played.
154 Rec.
2056 yards
13.35 YPR
13 TDs

Williams:

28 games played.
146 Rec.
2148 yards
14.71 YPR
12 TDs

I mean, I just don't get it.

You say he hasn't played in a good offense, and while I agree that Kitna blows like a hurricane, it has been an offense conducive to putting up big passing numbers.

Roy Williams has been option #1 over the last two years, Boldin's got a guy named Fitzgerald playing opposite of him. I think if you ran some more in-depth stats, like total production based on # of looks (a.k.a opportunities), Boldin would come out looking much more favorable. I could be wrong, but there is something about Williams I just don't like -- I know he's got good top-end speed, but so does Matt Jones, and they've both got a lumbering, oafish quality about them.

Anquan Boldin just looks like a tough SOB who can go inside, outide, whatever.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wouldn't give Ellis up for Boldin either.

He had 12.5 sacks in 12 games and has probably the best contract in the league for a pass rusher of that quality.

I think everybody knows I'm a Ellis homer. I like the player and have always liked the player. I understand the value of the contract and the production. However, we have been trying to sign a WR the calibur of a Roy Williams for at least two off seasons now. This tells me that unless something miraculous happens with one of our young guys, we are going to continue to do this until we get one signed. Now, eventually it's going to cost us so from that respect, we are probably better off doing a deal now, as opposed to later. Star WRs are only going to cost more money as time goes on. The relieve of the cap numbers from a player like Ellis and Henry would certainly help that concern. Neither of these players will be with the team in three seasons, IMO. Henry is probably gone next season and it is not very likely, IMO, that Ellis will be producing those kinds of numbers in another two seasons. It is my guess that Ellis' role on the team will diminish as our young LBs develop. His playing time and production will be impacted IMO. The contract is nice, I completely agree, but the value of a balanced offense is going to outweigh the contract value of Ellis over time IMO.

 

[Stash]

I think everybody knows I'm a Ellis homer. I like the player and have always liked the player. I understand the value of the contract and the production. However, we have been trying to sign a WR the calibur of a Roy Williams for at least two off seasons now. This tells me that unless something miraculous happens with one of our young guys, we are going to continue to do this until we get one signed. Now, eventually it's going to cost us so from that respect, we are probably better off doing a deal now, as opposed to later. Star WRs are only going to cost more money as time goes on. The relieve of the cap numbers from a player like Ellis and Henry would certainly help that concern. Neither of these players will be with the team in three seasons, IMO. Henry is probably gone next season and it is not very likely, IMO, that Ellis will be producing those kinds of numbers in another two seasons. It is my guess that Ellis' role on the team will diminish as our young LBs develop. His playing time and production will be impacted IMO. The contract is nice, I completely agree, but the value of a balanced offense is going to outweigh the contract value of Ellis over time IMO.

I would also point to the fact that the team does currently have a first round pick in Spencer backing up at Ellis' position, a player who played well as a rookie last season.

Conversely, what does the team have in reserve behind Owens?

The answer is not much.

Roy Williams could be an ideal #2 receiver next to Terrell Owens and his eventual long-term replacement as well.

Call it personal preference or whatever, but I would rather see the team try to survive without Ellis' services than I would without Owens'.

 

[TNCowboy]

Hey at least I make a case for my position. One which I don't hear the slightest rrebuttal. Ellis is a damn fine pass rusher and one of the best in the league last year as supported by his sack totals.

RW ended his season last year hurt and has been hurt every year he has been in the league save one. then there are contract issues. Its one year of RW and then $8 mil a year if were lucky after that whereas Ellis is signed for multiple years for a pittance.

How about you make a case rather than just blindly babbling...

Ellis is hardly one of the best pass rushers. He's a good player who was the beneficiary of the guys he played with.

One double digit sack year and he's suddenly one of the best? He's an aging player with 2 years left on his deal.

I doubt Dallas would ever get this offer, but if they did, they should jump all over it.

 

[Stash]

League consensus? Show one shred of proof that league execs think that.

I would point to any of the numerous ranking lists of NFL receivers, and the fact that Williams was one of the 'Big Three' receivers being mentioned in potential trade talks. Williams was as highly-regarded as any of them by NFL teams.

 

[Angus]

I would rather trade Spears as well but I don't see Spears as a pass rusher so to me, I can't figure out the angle on why Detriot would make that trade. You know I'm a big Ellis fan Lab. I am a very, very strong proponent of a strong pass rush but I'd still make that trade. The importance of balancing the offense with a WR as talented as Williams outweighs the importance of Ellis as the third pass rusher. There would be a certain amount of risk to a move like that, no question. However, I believe that in the long run, having a Roy Williams for several years as opposed to keeping an Ellis and Henry who will only be with the team performing at a high level for a couple season more, at best, is worth it.

Get draft picks instead and cash them in for that Texas Tech receiver next year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You say he hasn't played in a good offense, and while I agree that Kitna blows like a hurricane, it has been an offense conducive to putting up big passing numbers.

Roy Williams has been option #1 over the last two years, Boldin's got a guy named Fitzgerald playing opposite of him. I think if you ran some more in-depth stats, like total production based on # of looks (a.k.a opportunities), Boldin would come out looking much more favorable. I could be wrong, but there is something about Williams I just don't like -- I know he's got good top-end speed, but so does Matt Jones, and they've both got a lumbering, oafish quality about them.

Anquan Boldin just looks like a tough SOB who can go inside, outide, whatever.

I think that the actual comparison of Boldin to Williams is irrelivant. From my point of view, I would love to have either. The real issue, at least for me, is that if you have the chance to get a WR the calibur of a Williams or Boldin for Ellis and Henry, you have to take that. The point I was trying to make, by comparing the two is to try and illustrat that if you would be willing to go for the one, you should be willing to go for the other. The statistical difference, regardless, is close enough that it really doesn't count for much IMO.

In fact, the point you make about sharing time really kinda drives home the point I'm trying to make. To me, I could care less about personal individual statistics. For me, it's about creating an offense that can not be defended against. The flip side of the example you point out is that Arizona can't be doubled. You can not take away from there offense because they have two excellent WRs. They are a tough, tough match up because of that. If we added a WR, comperable to Boldin, nobody could defend us. It could very possibly be the best offense ever assembled in the history of the NFL. That would be a very powerful thing for other teams to try and overcome. The psychological value of a move such as that would probably be worth the trade in itself. Over half the teams you faced would be beaten before they ever stepped on the field. Great teams beat lessor teams before the game is ever played, most of the time. Our great teams of the 90s and 70s won a lot of games because the teams the faced did not believe they could beat them. That, IMO, is what you would have if you signed a WR like Williams or Boldin. JMO