Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by birdwells1, Mar 11, 2019.
Its moronic but I agree. That is how things will go.
End of the road for Garrett.
One? Sure, an anomaly. Two? Coincidence. Three? Bad luck. Four? Five? All of the top six? Yeah, no, that's not simply coincidence.
And the 6 that ran to overpay their quarterbacks are all sitting at home.
I'd start with the team being better and not far worse.
They paid the guy $27 million to NOT get a playoff team back to the playoffs.
We've waited for that window to get slammed shut on our fingers.
For signing guys, I agree on signing the elite we already have. Maybe even some not elite low tier guys we can get cheap.
And for Cooper, if it weren't for my aversion to paying WRs, I'd be happy to sign him. Elite enough. Young. Healthy. The kind of guy you sign.
My criticism on Cooper was the trade, not a signing now. We burned a first round pick for the right to negotiate a new contract with Cooper and pay him free agent money. I think we'd get more value out of the pick and the teens of millions leftover to spend on other players.
The Cooper trade was a move away from building through the draft. Sunk cost now, so it shouldn't affect our decision to extend him. On the whole, from our current candidates, I'd be happiest about extending him.
Simmons has Jerry Genius Pick written all over him. Is he's there in the 2nd, we take him.
Confuse me? I mean excuse me? "In other words it was merit based" yet Jerry n Stephen got jobs due to merit. .. ? Wanna explain how merit works, think it would help me understand a lot more
As a general concept I agree that teams can sign free agents without giving up picks; however, elite players at every position don't hit the market every year. Especially if they don't have "issues" like injury history or attitude problems.
We've seen this year that teams are trading for expensive veteran players like A.Brown and OBJ.
The Cowboys did get 1.5 years of Cooper under contract which was effectively 2 years because he got them to the playoffs in 2018.
Cooper vs 1st round pick:
Basically 2 years under contract.
Known entity that was "ready now".
1st round pick
5 years under contract
Year 1 is a "learning" year.
Fail rate higher than known veteran.
If pick is WR, fail rate has been very high.
3 years under contract.
Year 1 is learning year for draft pick which somewhat reduces the value of the extra 3 years.
The pick is #27. That could be Taco...
Dak, Zeke, Martin, Frederick, Tyron, La'el, Byron Jones, Vander Esch, Jaylon, Awuzie, Gallup and other players are ready in 2019. They don't need to wait a year or two for a rookie WR to learn the NFL game.
You missed three big differences.
Money. About 15mil a year difference.
Freedom on asset allocation. Do we want to put big resources into WR? Recent NFL history says no. I say no.
A chance for *another* contract in the player's prime. Which with a great player, is what we gave up a pick for with Cooper. Just a *chance* for another contract.
For comparison purposes, consider a 3 year extension for Cooper, making the total length of contract equal from here on out, and just considering Cooper's missed games last year like a rookie ramping up. Like Gallup.
1st round pick for BPA, taking into account position value
plus a chance to extend that 1st round pick for a contract in his prime
plus 15mil per year extra to spend in free agency on whatever positions and opportunities are the best available
Cooper's contract plus a 3 year extension
Here are *all* our first recent first round picks, not just your rotten cherry pick of Taco: LVE, Taco, Zeke (Let's say Jaylon), Jones, Martin, Frederick, Claiborne, Tyron.
Heads up, I'd rather have most of those picks *without* the 15 mil. It's supposed to be a great class for dline. I'd rather put the resources there. Or maybe someone great drops. And in 5 years, we'll have a chance to extend him, just the value we're getting out of Cooper now.
I hadn't realized the issue about the contract 5 years from now before. Like everyone else, but less so, I was focused on the shorter term.
We mortgaged the future big time, to get a great player at a position of need, but not a position to pump big resources into.
I didn't even touch on the value of just the 2018 season. The NFL trade rules don't setup well for a lot of mid-season trades like in baseball. In baseball teams give up significant assets just to get help for that season. Baseball contenders in-season trade premium prospects for a pitcher that will be a free agent after the season.
If they didn't trade for Cooper AND they used that pick on DL then where do they get a #1 WR?
It's required picks for the Raiders to get A.Brown and for the Browns to get OBJ.
The money diff is implied in my points about the number of years under contract diff.
The "missed" games by Cooper didn't matter. We have the advantage of hindsight on that issue.
It's effectively 2 years vs 5 years for Cooper vs the draft pick for a diff of 3 years.
WR is the hardest/slowest transition for college players other than QB. That makes the diff really more like 2 or 2.5 years.
The risk reduction is also valuable. The fail rate of 1st round WRs has been very high.
Can't hate the player have to hate the Ravens they overpaid for a player who is in his 30's. Coming off 2 broken bone injuries in the past 3 years. I see him getting cut in 2 years.
My goodness. All of this negativity in one single thread. Thank goodness for the mega merge. Better to put it all in one place so it can be taken out with the garbage.
I'm glad and happy he got his money. Hope he does well in Baltimore. There are still a couple of Safeties out there that will be reasonable in a week or so and we still have the draft. No worries.
Dont try to make sense of this team, youll go nuts
how has it worked out for us, what have we won before this year?
Allow me to vouch for the front office here. We do have 4 big contracts due soon. Those contracts are the following: Dak, Cooper, DLaw, and Zeke. We also will likely have Byron Jones who we will likely have to franchise tag if he has another good season. This is because we'd like to know if we can trust him long term. So, that means the tag would be unavailable for Cooper or Dak. DLaw won't accept another tag, and we seem to be having enough trouble with this tag as it is. So, logically, we're going to have to be cautious about spending to much because I'm sure we'd like to keep at least DLaw, Cooper, and Zeke. Dak, if he has another solid season, will likely also need signing. So that will chomp up a lot of the cap space we have now.
Additionally, the low cost signings we have had have been terrific. Joe Looney, for example, was a brilliant signing. In fact, with what happened to Fred last year, Looney probably is why Cooper was able to be brought here. If we didn't have Looney, then we'd likely have had to use the first we used for Cooper to get a new centre. Antwan Woods was another good low cost signing.
Yes, I'd like for the FO to be a bit more active, but I can understand the logic of why they aren't at the moment.
We could still keep that window open if the Cowboys would offer the Cards a 2nd round pick for Rosen, which is what i would do. He's going to wind up being a much better QB than Dak IMO and he is going into the 2nd year of his rookie deal
So are you claiming that Garrett hasn’t had the pieces he needs to win more than he has?
Can’t have it both ways.
Has Garrett underperformed or not? If he has, that means we had the talent to do more than we did.
On top of that, Romo’s injuries and the blown Dez call likely cost us some playoff wins.
4. Cooper is still a bit unknown. He's been great, and he's been nonexistent. He's also been known for inconsistent play, and hasn't really broken out as a #1 WR. Exactly what he is is yet to be seen. Lots to spend on a player w/ questions.
That's a ton of conjecture. Rosen is also most likely an injury waiting to happen. I think you need to precede your statement about being much better than Dak w/ "I think" or "IMO".