Video: Dak had most drops in league

[buybuydandavis]

When Rogers and Brady are the 1st and 3rd worst for bad passes it causes me to wonder what these stats are really measuring.

Might it be that Rogers and Brady put passes only where their guys can get the ball, and if they can’t get it no one can? The video does show catchable balls, but in most of them the receiver is adjusting. I do think his new throwing motion improved his accuracy, and clearly he didn’t get a lot of help, but I don’t consider catchable the same thing as accurate.

I wondered throwaways, but they say they're accounting for them and spikes too.

Accurate isn't the same as catchable, and catchable isn't the same as "reasonably" catchable.

NFL Rewind was giving a free trial for April. You can always go look.

 

[gimmesix]

is that the pass that Cooper himself said he should have caught and it was his fault? i do agree that's a pass Dak has to improve on.it infuriates me when hes behind on that throw. That said they still should grab it in most cases. The crossing route to Cobb should have been caught I cant remember what game it was maybe NO.

I believe it is. Cooper was wrong even though he said the right thing. Go back and closely watch that pass. Cooper is racing across the field and tries to pull up and reach for the pass. In doing that, he gets his left hand up around his shoulder pads but can't bring the right hand around quick enough to stabilize the ball before it deflects off the left hand and shoulder pad.

If any argument can be made against him on that pass it's that maybe he could have adjusted better, but I think it's pretty difficult when you are sprinting one way to try to turn back the other..

 

[817Gill]

Better question is why our fans think all a QB is responsible for is throwing a ball in the near vicinity of a reciever.

Heaven forbid we ask a professional QB (and one that’s likely to be the highest paid QB in the game) to throw an accurate ball.

How an NFL wide receiver isn’t expected to catch a ball that hits him in the hands is crazy. What’s even crazier is that every publication literally has Dallas in the top 3 in drops (they quantify drops as catchable passes), but the actual fans of the team disagree with them.

 

[gimmesix]

This is very true but I notice an agenda with some of the posters saying that a lot of those "drops" weren't catchable are exaggerating. There were very few of those throws that were not catchable.

And I don't know if he throws more inaccurate passes than any other quarterback. I'm certainly not trying to make the point that Prescott is at fault on all of those throws or even most of them. I just don't like them all those "drops" getting lumped in as accurate. That's not true. There were several difficult catches that resulted in drops. Receivers win some and lose some on bad throws and we lost more than our share.

 

[Kwyn]

Many people in this thread are missing the point of data analysis entirely. The data expert who did the analysis used the same criteria for every QB in the league

He didn’t say “I created a very friendly set of criteria to identify dropped passes that I only applied to Dak and made him look good . All other QB’s, I had a completely different set of criteria and it was designed to make them look bad.”

He’s a data researcher who is almost certainly far more objective than any of us could possibility be.

It’s called analytical rigor.

It’s his entire gig

It amazes me how many people are thinking this guys research is somehow biased because it doesn’t confirm their own clear, subjective bias.

If he just wanted to be a Dak homer, why on earth would he put so much effort into it. He analyzes, in depth, every QB in the league.

He could have just post a half assed opinion on a message board saying Dak is more accurate than Drew Brees ever dreamed of being and leave it at that and not provided any data at all.

(BTW, Dak is fourth all time behind Brees, Cousins and Chad Pennington)

 

[starfan1]

I believe it is. Cooper was wrong even though he said the right thing. Go back and closely watch that pass. Cooper is racing across the field and tries to pull up and reach for the pass. In doing that, he gets his left hand up around his shoulder pads but can't bring the right hand around quick enough to stabilize the ball before it deflects off the left hand and shoulder pad.

If any argument can be made against him on that pass it's that maybe he could have adjusted better, but I think it's pretty difficult when you are sprinting one way to try to turn back the other..

If I’m not mistaken there were 3 drops in that game but I do remember discussing fault after that game

 

[BigD_95]

Wait you know Wilson currently has the largest contract, right?
Or were you just guessing?

Goff and Wentz had the second largest at the time of their signings. The Eagles offered $1M more than Goff because THATS HOW THIS WORKS.

Any more stupid comments?

Both Goff and Wentz signed for less than Ben & Wilson. Which part do you not understand? Wentz did not become a baby and hold out for more money than Wilson or Ben and Goff wasnt being a baby holding out for more than Ben or Wilson.

Your post said that when a contract comes up then that person becomes the highest paid QB - thats how it works. You asked me to give you 2 examples that didnt happen. Wentz & Goff are my examples

Maybe go reread your ordinal post because you are the one looking like an idiot

and you keep forgetting about Ben Roethlisberger who is #2 on the list

 

[Swagger]

Many people in this thread are missing the point of data analysis entirely. The data expert who did the analysis used the same criteria for every QB in the league

He didn’t say “I created a very friendly set of criteria to identify dropped passes that I only applied to Dak and made him look good . All other QB’s, I had a completely different set of criteria and it was designed to make them look bad.”

He’s a data researcher who is almost certainly far more objective than any of us could possibility be.

It’s called analytical rigor.

It’s his entire gig

It amazes me how many people are thinking this guys research is somehow biased because it doesn’t confirm their own clear, subjective bias.

If he just wanted to be a Dak homer, why on earth would he put so much effort into it. He analyzes, in depth, every QB in the league.

He could have just post a half assed opinion on a message board saying Dak is more accurate than Drew Brees ever dreamed of being and leave it at that and not provided any data at all.

(BTW, Dak is fourth all time behind Brees, Cousins and Chad Pennington)

The starting point with a stat like this is...does every quarterback in the league have the same offensive line and the same amount of time to throw the ball?

The answer to that is no so...

 

[817Gill]

Wouldn't seem that bad passes that were dropped were included in the stats, that would mean the receiver would be blamed for not making a fantastic catch, I think drops are only counted if the pass could have been caught with a reasonable effort...

This. It’s not registered as a drop unless the pass is one a WR should catch.

 

[TwentyOne]

On the heels of the thread where he was 2nd in the league in 3rd down completion % comes the lead the league in drops. If one of them is held onto...he is the cowboys all time single season passing leader. If they catch half of those drops...we are in the playoffs and win the division.

Discuss...

So.he.needs to throw it more.precise.

Had this roblem coming out of college and didnt get better.

 

[817Gill]

My agenda? If you know me you know there's no agenda. I'm a fair "Dak apologist". I wouldn't have to be a apologist if some of the critiques from posters not his site wasn't so outlandish.

Like you for instance. There were 51 drops...not sure if the clip had all of them in there but very few of those passes were dropped because of a badly thrown football. Yet, you are arguing against it. This is a agenda. Even if you take out the debatable throws its still far too many drops. You know what a drop is. You know what a professional receiver should be able to catch or shouldn't. But in the spirit of disliking Dak you have to uphold this appearance of ignorance and I don't get it.

This.

 

[817Gill]

Many people in this thread are missing the point of data analysis entirely. The data expert who did the analysis used the same criteria for every QB in the league

He didn’t say “I created a very friendly set of criteria to identify dropped passes that I only applied to Dak and made him look good . All other QB’s, I had a completely different set of criteria and it was designed to make them look bad.”

He’s a data researcher who is almost certainly far more objective than any of us could possibility be.

It’s called analytical rigor.

It’s his entire gig

It amazes me how many people are thinking this guys research is somehow biased because it doesn’t confirm their own clear, subjective bias.

If he just wanted to be a Dak homer, why on earth would he put so much effort into it. He analyzes, in depth, every QB in the league.

He could have just post a half assed opinion on a message board saying Dak is more accurate than Drew Brees ever dreamed of being and leave it at that and not provided any data at all.

(BTW, Dak is fourth all time behind Brees, Cousins and Chad Pennington)

Exactly, it’s not your personal fan analysis. It’s someone who spends hours breaking down film of ALL Quarterbacks.

 

[MaineBoy]

So Cooper drops a ball on first down and Dak misses a wide open Jarwin 40 yards down field on 3rd down but stats show each guy has one drop and one missed pass.

 

[HungryLion]

Both Goff and Wentz signed for less than Ben & Wilson. Which part do you not understand? Wentz did not become a baby and hold out for more money than Wilson or Ben and Goff wasnt being a baby holding out for more than Ben or Wilson.

Your post said that when a contract comes up then that person becomes the highest paid QB - thats how it works. You asked me to give you 2 examples that didnt happen. Wentz & Goff are my examples

Maybe go reread your ordinal post because you are the one looking like an idiot

and you keep forgetting about Ben Roethlisberger who is #2 on the list

Technically Dak isn’t holding out either, nor did he. He isn’t under contract right now. He played out his deal.

 

[Kwyn]

Both Goff and Wentz signed for less than Ben & Wilson. Which part do you not understand? Wentz did not become a baby and hold out for more money than Wilson or Ben and Goff wasnt being a baby holding out for more than Ben or Wilson.

Your post said that when a contract comes up then that person becomes the highest paid QB - thats how it works. You asked me to give you 2 examples that didnt happen. Wentz & Goff are my examples

Maybe go reread your ordinal post because you are the one looking like an idiot

and you keep forgetting about Ben Roethlisberger who is #2 on the list

Huh? Wentz and Goff weren’t ever free agents.

It’s not the same. At all.

 

[gimmesix]

If I’m not mistaken there were 3 drops in that game but I do remember discussing fault after that game

Just to be clear, I'm certainly not saying Cooper didn't drop passes he should have caught. There were some that absolutely were inexcusable.

 

[gimmesix]

Many people in this thread are missing the point of data analysis entirely. The data expert who did the analysis used the same criteria for every QB in the league

He didn’t say “I created a very friendly set of criteria to identify dropped passes that I only applied to Dak and made him look good . All other QB’s, I had a completely different set of criteria and it was designed to make them look bad.”

He’s a data researcher who is almost certainly far more objective than any of us could possibility be.

It’s called analytical rigor.

It’s his entire gig

It amazes me how many people are thinking this guys research is somehow biased because it doesn’t confirm their own clear, subjective bias.

If he just wanted to be a Dak homer, why on earth would he put so much effort into it. He analyzes, in depth, every QB in the league.

He could have just post a half assed opinion on a message board saying Dak is more accurate than Drew Brees ever dreamed of being and leave it at that and not provided any data at all.

(BTW, Dak is fourth all time behind Brees, Cousins and Chad Pennington)

I never thought the criteria was only applied to Dak, and I don't even know if this analyst included the passes that I think were inaccuracies more than drops. I just know that some of the ones that were debated during the season were very difficult catches. Granted, there probably was not more than a handful of those out of the ones considered drops.

 

[Kwyn]

I never thought the criteria was only applied to Dak, and I don't even know if this analyst included the passes that I think were inaccuracies more than drops. I just know that some of the ones that were debated during the season were very difficult catches. Granted, there probably was not more than a handful of those out of the ones considered drops.

Fair enough. We as fans debating our opinions on games and what was catchable not catchable makes total sense to me. I didn’t mean to come at you personally

There just seemed to be folks somehow debating that this guy wasn’t exercising analytical rigor and would somehow use different definitions of catchable/uncatchable or drop/miss across his sample.

It just didn’t make sense

We, as fans, all have our own biases and opinions. Guys like this who are trying to make a living on analytics can’t afford that.

I used to mod at realgm and some of the designers of the tools used there went on to get real jobs in the NBA based on their salary cap tools and analysis. It was fascinating and I assure you, they viewed themselves as potential consultants more than they saw themselves as fans.

Same thing is the angle for this guy

Nate Silver (fivethirtyeight) is an icon/idol for these guys

To get paid to do stats for sports, a hobby they would and did do for free? It’s a dream come true

For people to suggest he would sabotage his entire professional goals, not to mention what is obviously a passion project, to somehow prop up this lame or that is silly

More likely they just didn’t take the time to think it through, which is fine. It’s a message board and some folks rightfully just want to pop off with an opinion or two and not have to fine tune every post

I’m plenty guilty of that myself from time to time

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

How an NFL wide receiver isn’t expected to catch a ball that hits him in the hands is crazy. What’s even crazier is that every publication literally has Dallas in the top 3 in drops (they quantify drops as catchable passes), but the actual fans of the team disagree with them.

Sorry you’re limited to binary thinking: ball hits receiver’s hands = they must catch it.

There are varying degrees of difficulty with very completion; the QB plays a role in that.

Yep, as long they chuck it in the vicinity “hey, it’s your problem now!!”

 

[BigD_95]

Huh? Wentz and Goff weren’t ever free agents.

It’s not the same. At all.

that has nothing to do with the conversation I was having