Dak is not a Franchise QB

khiladi

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Giants was one of the best all time?

Please name your elite QBs in the league now.

Did I say that Giants defense was the best of all time?
Their defensive line that year was definitely elite though. Not sure what that proves.. Eli Manning also played lights out those playoffs and Eli is light years better than Dak ever is and is a HOF QB..
 

uvaballa

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I think we at least agree that Garrett is THE problem, of course Jerry hired him, so he is part of the problem obviously.

But seeing this offense for the past 10 games, (not only this one game) is hard to watch and the results show it:

- Failed to score more than 9 points in 5 of their past 9 games
- Dak has thrown for less than 200 yards in 7 of his last 9 games, a very difficult feat in this day in age I might add
- Carolina stacked the box in 53% of the snaps (NFL average is 38%), that says a lot of what they think about Dak, their strategy obviously worked.

Then again, I do agree that is all about results, winning divisions and playoff games, if we have a winning season, you sir, will be correct, I hope you are.
But there shouldn't be a debate that if we had a better QB we would be having much better results.
I would love it if Rodgers or Brady played for the Cowboys but having one of the best 5 QBs is hard to get.

Romo was clearly a better passer and that still didn’t lead to much success in Dallas is all I’m saying. Maybe they should focus on the D because we have different QBs with basically the same results.
 

cern

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How many rings Rodgers have? Why would a QB like Eli have more? Foles even tied Rodgers now.
are you suggesting the cowboys have a greater chance of winning the big dance with dak than the packers have with Rodgers. the packers are at least relevant. year after year.
 

uvaballa

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Dak isn’t elite, which is what we are discussing. He’s in the bottom half of QBs in this league.
Was Romo elite? I need to understand your definition of elite. Elite to me is probably the top 5 QBs. Most QBs in the league cant carry a team by themselves. They need either a very good defense or a ton of weapons on offense. Not sure cowboys have either right now.
 

cern

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Yeah.. which is why I mentioned that when they do, they are arguably among the top defenses of all time.. the Seahawks defense in their prime is arguably the best defense of this modern era, but the Broncos defense that year was playing just as elite, and probably better up front.. and it rarely happens...

Was Romo ‘elite’.. Brady wouldn’t have been elite on this team with Jason Garrett as OC, with this amount of pressure up front..
great defenses to be sure, but those teams were also quarterbacked by guys like eli,, Russell Wilson and payton manning. the odds of success are clearly favored by having elite qb's.
 

khiladi

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I think we at least agree that Garrett is THE problem, of course Jerry hired him, so he is part of the problem obviously.

But seeing this offense for the past 10 games, (not only this one game) is hard to watch and the results show it:

- Failed to score more than 9 points in 5 of their past 9 games
- Dak has thrown for less than 200 yards in 7 of his last 9 games, a very difficult feat in this day in age I might add
- Carolina stacked the box in 53% of the snaps (NFL average is 38%), that says a lot of what they think about Dak, their strategy obviously worked.

Then again, I do agree that is all about results, winning divisions and playoff games, if we have a winning season, you sir, will be correct, I hope you are.
But there shouldn't be a debate that if we had a better QB we would be having much better results.

53%.. wow..

I wonder how much flexibility Linehan took away from Dak since last year, regarding run-pass options. Any QB with half a brain would know to challenge the defense when seeing a 2nd and 17 and DB and safeties stepping up to play the run if given that option.
 

uvaballa

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are you suggesting the cowboys have a greater chance of winning the big dance with dak than the packers have with Rodgers. the packers are at least relevant. year after year.
I’m saying having a great QB doesn’t guarantee you anything. I’d prefer to have a top notch D and a decent QB any day.
 

aria

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The comical thing about people like you is they simply argue in absolutes. Nobody says Romo was flawless, but it’s patently clear that Garrett was an incompetent play-caller. I mean you haven’t refuted the fact that Dallas was last in play action passes and when all was said and done by 2012, Dallas was operating out of shotgun 85% of the time and that the media was talking about whether Dallas needs to run more hurry-up because that’s the only offense that was successful.

There is a reason Jerry began the journey of stripping away play calling from Garrett the next year, while saying major changes would take place which included even bouncing Garrett’s brother who was ‘promoted’ to passing game coordinator like the year before, while he kept trying to push his pet project Ogletree into the starting lineup.
I never said Garrett was a great coach but I also don’t think all the losses were his fault either. Romo made a living out of slinging the ball around, many times it worked out and sometimes it didn’t (especially in big games). He got hurt so often because he hung onto the ball so long. Dumb face Eli has had one of the worst O lines in the NFL for almost 6 years, with no running game, and he has yet to miss a game due to injury. In no way am I saying Eli is better than Romo but he’s much smarter about getting rid of the ball on time.

Point is, Romo had his ups and downs but people like you refuse to acknowledge that. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. When things went right, you give Romo credit for audibles and running the offense but when things go wrong it’s always the coaches fault. Just like Sunday, sure I blame JG for not playing the starters in pre season and I oiced my discontent with that decision but regardless, Dak had wide open throws he missed. That’s not play calling and I don’t blame the coaches for not having him prepared. These weren’t complicated, tight window throws, these were throws that high schoolers make on a regular basis. That’s concerning from a QB standpoint, not as much on the coaching. There were plenty of plays to be made and Dak sucked.

People still blame Dak’s downfall on the Atlanta game which is ridiculous. Yeah, JG screwed that one up bad but Dak is a professional football player in the NFL, if he's still “shell shocked” from a game almost a year ago or if he needs perfect circumstances to succeed then he’s not a franchise QB and is mentally weak (shouldn’t even be a captain in that case).

So Dallas ran shotgun 85% of the time? What year? Once again, people blame the FO on never geting Romo or Witten a SB and a common excuse is “they never gave Romo an O line”. So either a) that’s not true or b) perhaps it is true and that’s why they ran shotgun so much. Which was it?

A lot of the same people who blame coaching are the ones who say “McClay is really running the show” or “McClay is a genius” yet JG also gets the blame for bad personnel decisions. Again, which one is it?

Like I said, coaching isn’t great but the way Jerry and Co have built this team is a joke and some fans continue to blame it ALL on coaching when in reality, very few coaches would have success with the cast of characters that the Cowboys have fielded. I think the talent on this roster is vastly exaggerated and has always been greatly unbalanced on one side of the ball or the other.

I mean jesus, look at our offense now. Cole friggin Beasley is as close to our number 1 as there is and we have no TE and quite a few more questions on the O line. The problem is, even if we had a true number one or TE, I’m starting to doubt whether our QB could even get the ball to him, so what’s the point? It’s like having a stud RB with no O line (look at the Gnats).

Coaching is an issue but there’s a lot bigger issues on this team IMO.
 

G2

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Was Romo elite? I need to understand your definition of elite. Elite to me is probably the top 5 QBs. Most QBs in the league cant carry a team by themselves. They need either a very good defense or a ton of weapons on offense. Not sure cowboys have either right now.
Brady, Rodgers and Brees, IMO
 

khiladi

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Was Romo elite? I need to understand your definition of elite. Elite to me is probably the top 5 QBs. Most QBs in the league cant carry a team by themselves. They need either a very good defense or a ton of weapons on offense. Not sure cowboys have either right now.

Romo was elite when Jason Garrett was removed from the equation by Jerry himself. No QB is elite enough to overcome Garrett’s playcalling.
 

uvaballa

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great defenses to be sure, but those teams were also quarterbacked by guys like eli,, Russell Wilson and payton manning. the odds of success are clearly favored by having elite qb's.
Wilson wasn’t elite when they won that first SB. He was driving the bus. Peyton was terrible in both SB runs. I’m pretty sure he had more INts than TD’s both of those postseasons. Eli played great during his SB runs but no one says he’s elite except giant fans.
 

Captain-Crash

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our team isn't good enough to have a bus driver to cruise to wins. we have to have a guy who can actually throw the ball every now and then.
 

khiladi

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I never said Garrett was a great coach but I also don’t think all the losses were his fault either. Romo made a living out of slinging the ball around, many times it worked out and sometimes it didn’t (especially in big games). He got hurt so often because he hung onto the ball so long. Dumb face Eli has had one of the worst O lines in the NFL for almost 6 years, with no running game, and he has yet to miss a game due to injury. In no way am I saying Eli is better than Romo but he’s much smarter about getting rid of the ball on time.

Point is, Romo had his ups and downs but people like you refuse to acknowledge that. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. When things went right, you give Romo credit for audibles and running the offense but when things go wrong it’s always the coaches fault. Just like Sunday, sure I blame JG for not playing the starters in pre season and I oiced my discontent with that decision but regardless, Dak had wide open throws he missed. That’s not play calling and I don’t blame the coaches for not having him prepared. These weren’t complicated, tight window throws, these were throws that high schoolers make on a regular basis. That’s concerning from a QB standpoint, not as much on the coaching. There were plenty of plays to be made and Dak sucked.

People still blame Dak’s downfall on the Atlanta game which is ridiculous. Yeah, JG screwed that one up bad but Dak is a professional football player in the NFL, if he's still “shell shocked” from a game almost a year ago or if he needs perfect circumstances to succeed than he’s not a franchise QB and is mentally weak (shouldn’t even be a captain in that case).

So Dallas ran shotgun 85% of the time? What year? Once again, people blame the FO on never geting Romo or Witten a SB and a common excuse is “they never gave Romo and O line”. So either a) that’s not true or b) perhaps it is true and that’s why they ran shotgun so much. Which was it?

A lot of the same people who blame coaching are the ones who say “McClay is really running the show” or “McClay is a genius” yet for JG also gets the blame for bad personell decisions. Again, which one is it?

Like I said, coaching isn’t great but the way Jerry and Co have built this team is a joke and some fans continue to blame it ALL on coaching when in reality, very few coaches would have success with the cast of characters that the Cowboys have fielded. I think the talent on this roster is vastly exaggerated and has always been greatly unbalanced on one side of the ball or the other.

I mean jesus, look at our offense now. Cole friggin Beasley is as close to our number 1 as there is and we have no TE and quite a few more questions on the O line. The problem is, even if we had a true number one or TE, I’m starting to doubt whether our QB could even get the ball to him, so what’s the point. It’s like having a stud RB with no O line (look at the Gnats).

Coaching is an issue but there’s a lot bigger issues on this team IMO.

Romo slung the ball around because Garrett couldn’t field a running game. You even brought up Orton and even he slung the ball around.

That was the whole Dan Reeves debacle was about. Wade Phillips wanted him here to babysit Garrett around the run game and Garrett was constantly criticized here for abandoning the run.

Saying Romo slung the ball around as evidence of some point, when all the evidence points to Garrett’s inabilities including the fact the Cowboys were pretty much only successful in no huddle is just comical to me..

Romo ran the ball as soon as Garrett was relegated to the sidelines by Jerry as a walk around HC that wouldn’t have any say in the offense..

It’s all in the evidence.. Dallas was bottom of the league in play action and passed out of shotgun like 80% of the time. Romo wasn’t even allowed in game planning meetings by Garrett and that and as forced on top by Jerry when he gave Romo the new contract, which is when the leash around Garrett was tightened.

The Giants offense has been a laughing stock the last few years without an OL. Not sure what your talking about..
 

uvaballa

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Brady, Rodgers and Brees, IMO
So you think we can easily get one of those? Do you trust the Jones to pick the right first round QB? Weren’t they about to draft Paxton lynch in the first round a few years ago.
 

cern

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Wilson wasn’t elite when they won that first SB. He was driving the bus. Peyton was terrible in both SB runs. I’m pretty sure he had more INts than TD’s both of those postseasons. Eli played great during his SB runs but no one says he’s elite except giant fans.
I realize the definition of elite is subjective. but i''d take any of those three over dak.
 

uvaballa

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it's looking like jared goff can be added to the list. and when not injured, carson wentz. possibly kirk cousins.
LMAO @ Cousins being elite. Even the skins didn’t trust that dude and they always overpay guys.
 

khiladi

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LMAO @ Cousins being elite. Even the skins didn’t trust that dude and they always overpay guys.

Actually they tried extending Cousins, but he had faith in himself and chose to test the market.. he wanted a lot more money..
 
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