Dalton throws for 300+ yds: fans say keep him. Dak threw for 450+ yds 3 times, fans say cut him?

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I’m in the camp of having a ‘good’ qb and not great......and paying as such. This is why.
- you can build an elite D—-D keeps you in games in a scoring friendly league
- you can build an elite o line which helps QBs /RBs/WRs look better so....
- you have more leverage in their deals because you know the next above avg talent skill player will have commensurate success
- injuries at skill positions are not season killers / easier to find “good” replacements instead of trying to replace a Tom Brady type player

how do you build an elite D?

 

[Typhus]

exactly....any FA worth their dollars and being a difference maker won't hit the market. teams don't let them go or they trade them..... Clowney was available. he wanted $16M a year. was he worth that much?

you don't build a team through FA. you complement and fill in a gap here or there. or you make a trade and give up assets for really good ones like Cooper.

Those moves need to be timely, trades like Coopers should be done when your a piece or two away from a real opportunity.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

There's a difference... They're both average QB's and easily replaced, but one of them wants to be the highest paid player in history and the other would be happy with a 3 year deal @$15 million per year for the same amount of wins.

OMG. as expected each week the exageration of Dak's contract gets bigger...now he wants to be the highest paid player in history...when did that happen? are you telling me Dak wants a 10 year 500M contract? the whole argument of the contract was about the 5th year, averaging about 35M......

the other one (Dalton) absolutely sucks. down right awful. he just beat 3 4-10 teams, needing 9 turnovers, a defensive TD and a special teams TD to do it. barely passing for 200 on two of them. he has yet to beat a team with 7 wins. and he is 0-5 in the playoffs and 1-12 in games that matter....I guess you like losing and high draft picks for consolation and participation trophy....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I love Dak but with all the holes on this roster you can’t pay him 40 plus million. He would be another premium talent wasted by Jerry Jones. I suspect Smith and Lee will join that scrap heap of great talents wasted by the dumbest FO in football.

what holes? and how do you plan to fill those holes (names names names), lets say I gave you an extra 20M. tell me how much better this team will be with 20M? and how much worse the offense will be without Dak.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The sane world just laughs at completely asinine comments like this.

its the truth that gets in the way of your comment....

 

[ShaneFalco]

I agree. But the fact they didn’t meet his demands doesn’t necessarily mean they believe he’s middle tier.

 

[Typhus]

how do you build an elite D?

Starts by drafting well and getting an early return on some of those draft picks, and we havent been the best in that dept.
I do like how at least this secondary has actually been playing the ball for the first time in what seems to be decades now.
There is a flicker of light for this defense, but clearly needs probably 2 high draft picks on DTs in this draft, and Gallimore to elevate from his rookie season next year.
Its amazing how quickly you can transform an area of weakness when its finally addressed.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They sure HAVEN’T done well signing free agents, have they? They’ll do even worse with less cap space to sign them, and if you give 40 to Dak, that’s what you’ll have...less.

Didn’t they offer 33.5 for 5 with 100 guaranteed? With endorsements in tax free Texas, that’s pretty good jack to play ball, and in these times. Listen...I like Dak, they like Dak, the Cowboys could win Super Bowls with Dak. But NO ONE is bigger than the team.

I am vehemently against building or trying to build either side of the ball with FA. you fill a gap. a position of need to put one side of the ball over the top...ala trade for cooper and then resigning him...but you can't build through FA. there isnt' enough money and not enough players hit the market. what hits the market in FA is scraps, older, injured, head cases looking for a last contract. looking to go somewhere for a year and cash in or be the missing piece per se....you build through the draft. and we have not done well in the draft on the defensive side. we have not picked any player of impact or dominant in years.....

and we have 7 of the highest paid position players in the NFL on the team, so paying Dak 32M this year didn't stop us from having to release any of those players. we paid mid level contracts to washed up has beens, because Jerry can't sign ant good FAs....its been his history....fix the defensive draft and we will have a better team, until then its offense trying to carry the team.

and I agree no one is bigger than team, but Dak's contract discussion per reports were along the same lines as what the QB market was, with likes of Wentz, Goff, Wilson, Watson....the hang up was the 5th year. Dak wanted to hit FA in 2024. that's when the cap is expected to jump 20-25%.

and I think Jerry made a mistake. he could have given him a 4 year contract as Dak wanted and then franchise him for the 5th year, which would have been based on pre-2024 contract values. it would have given Jerry the 5 year contract he wanted.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

35/5 this year, next year the salary cap is dropping. Whatever percentage it drops take that off the 35 offer. So 33/5 I'm ok keeping Dak around for that. He's a decent QB, not going to take us to a SB but he will get us close.

We have the upper hand now, he is coming off a serious injury. Give him a lower offer or he can walk. If you think you can get something for him then tag him and get a draft pick or 2. Hopefully someone signs him before the season starts.

it doesn't just drop for cowboys. it drops for all 32 teams. so all other teams have similar issues to deal with. its a one year anamoly that has to be dealt with...subsequently it will go back to what it was supposed to be, so 2022 will see a huge jump. and thus the contract could be done in such a way to account for that. its not that hard.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The problem isn’t the DAL FO.
The problem is Dak thinks he’s Russell Wilson.
So here we (The fans) are. Going down the same road WASH went down with Cousins, who thought he was Aaron Rogers.

no, the problem is dallas FO. look at the FA signings they had on the defensive side in the past few years, from Hardy, Poe, McCoy, Worley, Griffin, Quinn (6th rounder).....they just can't find defensive players....and when they have one, they let him walk (ala Jones). we hand out contracts to Jaylon Smith, Lawrence.....Zeke (2 years left on the contract)...no, the problem is this FO is bad in defensive evaluation draft and FA

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I’d target S and LB and OT in FA, draft DT, DB, LB, but that’s just my opinion. No claims to be a personnel guru.

but give me names of those who you would target.....its not like we go to Walmart, aisle 14 and pick up a saftey or LB. who is really going to be available.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You know I'm so tired of the "this player, or that player, or this coach or that coach" SUCKS.

Andy Dalton didn't stay on the Bengals for 9 years and then get signed by the Cowboys (Jerry's poor free agent signing history notwithstanding), then win several games (even against not-so-good teams) if he SUCKS.

Is he top-10? No. Top-20? Probably not, but NO quarterback does what he has done if he SUCKS. He has skills, can handle the position to a certain extent.

He's average to below average, can't put an exact rating on him because every team and every situation and every game is different.
Let's have a little civility, how would you like it if your co-workers went around saying you SUCK at your job, even though who you work for kept you around?

Sorry, Dalton SUCKS....he hasn't beaten a team with 7 wins in 2 years.....and he needs a lot of help and luck to get those wins. he has shown in 2 years he can beat bottom feeders, that are ailing, but fold like a cheap lawn chair against average teams....

he is not top 30 starting QB......he doesn't have skills any longer. he is 31...you don't build a team around a 31 year old...he was never elite, never great....ala Peyton when he went to Denver for a team to build anything around him. the only attractive thing about him is cost....if you are looking to maximize profits you sign him and be content with being in the 4-7 victory range for several years and get the high draft picks for consolation.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I would find it hard to believe, rules or not, that Dak and his agent don't have at least some idea as to what his market value is worth, and what teams are interested in signing him. They aren't going to ask for the moon if no team out there is willing to pay his demand, like if Dak goes on the market asking $40 mil a year and nobody offers it, he'd, at best, look silly. And at worst he'd be put at a disadvantage in negotiating with Jerry.

Really don't see that a new contract won't get done in the offseason, but I'm not privy to the negotiations, if any....

you think they don't. the agent, who is a successful one in the NFL knows. Dak knows....fans on this board are clueless. like the previus poster said, the length of the contract was the hang up. and Jerry made a colossal mistake. he could have given him a 4 year deal, and franchise him in 2024 which would have been based on pre-2024 averages and for 2024 would have been a great deal, plus it would give jerry an out without penalties if in 4 years things didn't work out.

the contract discussions were around $35/year...but dak detractors keep pushing that number up by the week, including someone saying he was asking for the highest historical NFL contract!!! go figure...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yeah, those are the guys i was referring to for next year, where did I say go bargain basement shopping or look for guys who don't fit your scheme .....if you can't find a free agent you like, they can resign players like Gallup or their TE

who else was available that we didn't get? we wanted but didn't sign? the problem is this FO and how they evaluate defensive players in FA and in draft and they have been extremley bad for almost a decade now.

 

[john van brocklin]

Crazy times we are living in.

Did u factor in annual salary?

 

[McKDaddy]

its the truth that gets in the way of your comment....

if you believe Dak is the #1 QB in the NFL, I am quite positive the truth is on my side. Even his most ardent supporters admit don't pretend he's near the top.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Starts by drafting well and getting an early return on some of those draft picks, and we havent been the best in that dept.
I do like how at least this secondary has actually been playing the ball for the first time in what seems to be decades now.
There is a flicker of light for this defense, but clearly needs probably 2 high draft picks on DTs in this draft, and Gallimore to elevate from his rookie season next year.
Its amazing how quickly you can transform an area of weakness when its finally addressed.

but that's been the problem. we haven't had any impact defensive player in almost a decade, probably about 15 years.... unless you want to count Lawrence, which I am not so high on.....not worth a top 5 DE contract in the league. I don't really much like LVE, he is serviceable and good LB but needs a lot of support around him....the last time we picked a high impact player was 2005 and Demacrus Ware....again, outside of lawrence no other impact player...

but for some reason we can pick the offensive players...

for what ever reason, we are not good at picking defensive players.

until we somehow magically fix that....we will toil in mediocrity

 

[gjkoeppen]

while I agree with you 100 percent it’s more about the cost per yard not the total yards.

those that dislike dak and don’t want to sign him don’t feel the value is there at 35 mil....but for a dalton at 2 mil they are stoked

But not all of us are blinded by one, a single, uno game of 377 yards and remember games with 185, 203, 209 and 215 yards which is pedestrian at best.
.
.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

if you believe Dak is the #1 QB in the NFL, I am quite positive the truth is on my side. Even his most ardent supporters admit don't pretend he's near the top.

2019 Dak was #2, and this year prior to his injury he was #1......

I don't have to convince you he is top 10....50 NFL FO personnel have also said so....somehow your BS carries zero water, because your pale has no bottom...if you know what I mean

 

[ShaneFalco]

if you believe Dak is the #1 QB in the NFL, I am quite positive the truth is on my side. Even his most ardent supporters admit don't pretend he's near the top.

Cousins level. Which is exactly what’s happening to him.