Daniel Wallach predicts Zeke will win

[stiletto]

Whatever the CBA says, league can't engage in an unfair, corrupt process where the outcome is determined in avoidance of the facts. That's what is under dispute here.

True but they say they have plenty of facts. Sure they will disclose them in the hearing and the facts might not be unbelievable, holding the murder weapon damning but the facts that they do have might be pretty stubborn things and all a judge will need to see. Even if it's not that bad. The Commish can say well *** it, you get 6 games....he has that right.

 

[Philmonroe]

While I agree with that notion, if any writer were to take that stance, they start becoming a pundit and not a journalist in my view...it's prudent to keep the realm of possibilities and potential conclusions open ended and not declare her/his guilt or innocence since you just never know if/when something new comes out. And frankly, Zeke's track record of stuff outside of the TT situation doesn't do him any favors.

But I do agree, to use the NFL's standard language, that "it's more probable than not" that TT was not abused based on the continual steam of evidence about her dubious motives...even this most recent revelation about her sleeping with a teammate to get back at him...that act, in and of itself, is abusive.

Yall gotta stop with the track record stuff like he has a record of hitting women. None of the other stuff translates to beating up women period. Get off the moral high horse.

 

[robbieruff]

Yall gotta stop with the track record stuff like he has a record of hitting women. None of the other stuff translates to beating up women period. Get off the moral high horse.

Brother. It appears you've completely misinterpreted what I was saying in that post. The point I was making was NOT that the other issues are tantamount to Zeke beating women (or even anything close to that); what I was saying is no reporter is going to pursue any sort of apologist defense of him in general because he's shown to have a string of off-field issues that raise red flags about his character. Unless you think him a model citizen...if that's the case then I can't help you.

There was an overall context to the flow of the conversation you decided to join into. While I certainly welcome any new opinions you may want to share, please take a bit of time to understand the context and nuance of the discussion before jumping in with some blunt instrument comment offering some generalization about "yall". I'm sure there are posters here who want to paint an all bad picture of Zeke and everything he has supposedly done. I'm not one of them. But I am balanced and objective enough to admit that media coverage of him is going to be reluctant to jump to his defense and claim his innocence given some of the volatile behavior he's exhibited outside of the TT situation. I'm puzzled why anyone would have an issue with that line of thinking.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Zeke will be unfairly punished. He will serve out a 6 game suspension.

Then he will take the NFL and Goddell to court for conspiring and branding him as a women beater. He will seek damages in the multimillions and will be the end of Goddell.

The NFL will succumb to public pressure and humiliation because of this. This will eventually lead to Zeke winning but it will be a long and hard fought battle.

So the commish has every right to suspend him for 6 games. The NFL wins here.

However, Zeke has every right to sue the NFL for lost wages and damages. Zeke wins this one.

 

[windjc]

Zeke will be unfairly punished. He will serve out a 6 game suspension.

Then he will take the NFL and Goddell to court for conspiring and branding him as a women beater. He will seek damages in the multimillions and will be the end of Goddell.

The NFL will succumb to public pressure and humiliation because of this. This will eventually lead to Zeke winning but it will be a long and hard fought battle.

So the commish has every right to suspend him for 6 games. The NFL wins here.

However, Zeke has every right to sue the NFL for lost wages and damages. Zeke wins this one.

Yeah, none of that is going to happen.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

That's not what the CBA says...the Commissioner's office doesn't have to prove CRAP...they can do what they want...It's like right to work. My place of work can fire me pretty much for any reason OR with cause. You sign those type of agreements when you go to work. Similar thing. It is absolute garbage but it is the deal agreed upon by ALL parties. end of story...Brady got 4 games for letting air out of a football. You can't get any dumber of a suspension than that IMO.. The players need to suck it up and renegotiate the next one better. My only problem with this one is it's a very serious charge that hurts Zeke financially and his reputation. Hope he can turn it around, he's probably always felt untouchable.

See I hear this part a lot but I know that Kessler was supposed to address some of the credible evidence language in the personal conduct policy and there were some twitter sports lawyers pointing to that language as well. The rest of your post is wrong too but I'm just curious about that specific language.

In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not
convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.


And here's no less an authority than Mr. Kessler, who btw has been running circles around the NFL and all the internet lawyers since he stepped onto the scene, arguing exactly what you are denying.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/905173194667151360

If he's right here, and he references previous decisions in there as well where the NFL used that language, then the whole focus only on Roberts and the process seems poorly aimed. It seems that if they can make that case the league has no shot but everyone only focuses on the process aspect.

 

[Kaiser]

Yall gotta stop with the track record stuff like he has a record of hitting women. None of the other stuff translates to beating up women period. Get off the moral high horse.

Yup, Zeke's "dubious motives" was being a 20 year old superstar millionaire with women throwing themselves at him.

How come I can't get any dubious? I've got the motive!

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Rambling thoughts...

I wonder if this case or another that arises soon will test the premise of the NFLPA being a fundamentally weak union. First to stop the inevitable tide of "you don't know what your talking abouts," I will concede the point.

But I do understand CBAs have at times been superseded when courts determined the union was fundamentally too weak to negotiate a fair deal for its members. There is an argument the NFLPA is an endemically weak union. Most of its members have incredibly short work lives. Many do not make "lifetime wages" in their brief careers.

A player who has a 4-year career gives up, say, a quarter of his total wages in a strike of a year in length. A steelworker with a 30-year career would have to strike for more than 7 years for the outcome to be similar.

Yes all NFL players make a lot of money, relative to the general population, but work conditions are proving to be far more dangerous than was believed at one time. The price of an NFL career can be incredibly steep.

At the same time, the NFL is at least a practical or quasi-monopoly. One cannot leave USX to work for ArcelorMIttal and expect to receive a similar or better wage. No alternative football league has come close to succeeding in half a century.

The balance of power is deeply tilted to management (and if it matters, I am a management guy).

Many have argued - the NFLPA should have negotiated a better deal, but in the real world, how good a deal can it negotiate? Are the circumstances such that it must surrender more than the usual bargaining chips?

I wonder if the Zeke case or another soon will explore this avenue? Without the NFLPA, or another players association, the NFL becomes a wholly different beast. For instance, there could be no player draft. The NFL needs the NFLPA, but it doesn't need a strong NFLPA.

Could the Zeke case become the Curt Flood case of football? Probably not. But on issues such as discipline, individual players might be found to have been harmed by a fundamentally weak union. And that could be a significant development.

 

[Cas2800]

Has your labor law professor read every single fact?

Most of these legal people on TV giving opinions haven't bothered reading up enough to know what's going on in this case. **** I doubt Stephen A, Sharp or any of these other fools have read up on the facts of this case. They just rely on the Brady ruling and Article 46 to say its a done deal and Zeke is screwed. I seriously doubt Zeke's attorneys would be telling him to fight it if they knew he had no chance. They know all the fact and the labor laws. I trust they know what they are doing.

 

[Cas2800]

See I hear this part a lot but I know that Kessler was supposed to address some of the credible evidence language in the personal conduct policy and there were some twitter sports lawyers pointing to that language as well. The rest of your post is wrong too but I'm just curious about that specific language.

In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not
convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.


And here's no less an authority than Mr. Kessler, who btw has been running circles around the NFL and all the internet lawyers since he stepped onto the scene, arguing exactly what you are denying.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/905173194667151360

If he's right here, and he references previous decisions in there as well where the NFL used that language, then the whole focus only on Roberts and the process seems poorly aimed. It seems that if they can make that case the league has no shot but everyone only focuses on the process aspect.

DING....DING....DING......ON POINT! WINNER!!!

 

[Bleedblue1111]

fixed and fixed right now.

This is my growing suspicion, in regard to NFL.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I hope this Daniel guy knows what he is talking about, because if Zeke doesn't get a TRO then he is sitting for a very long time. To make matters worse, if the league ever decides Zeke has slapped around his girl again, the second offense is banishment from the league under the DV policy.

Dude better start living like a Puritan, no alcohol, no parties, no sex, no nothing..............go to practice, play on Sunday, and stay in the house with the doors locked the rest of the week. If TMZ has a video of him doing some stupid chit, Goddell might kick him out of the league next time.

Yea, its not fair but like my dad always told me, "son, life aint fair so you better get that notion out of your head right now"

 

[Little Jr]

He'll win Friday, the first battle, but lose the war in the end.

 

[Doomsday101]

True but they say they have plenty of facts. Sure they will disclose them in the hearing and the facts might not be unbelievable, holding the murder weapon damning but the facts that they do have might be pretty stubborn things and all a judge will need to see. Even if it's not that bad. The Commish can say well *** it, you get 6 games....he has that right.

and it will fall to the judge to determine if Zeke was treated fairly by the league in this matter. Given the fact he is a liberal judge who knows how he will rule. However CBA or not workers still have rights and are to be treated fairly, league can't just do as they please. I would also add there is a reason the league wants this in NY and that is they feel they have the best chance of winning there as opposed to Texas. That is why they made the move to get Brady case out of the Minn court where they knew Brady stood a better chance of beating the rap where as NY court the NFL had an advantage

 

[iceberg]

I just don't see how any unbiased judge (or anyone for that matter) could see it any different. The NFL trampled over due process and fairness.

yea, but they never had to provide that. they can do whatever they want and the NFLPA allowed that.

 

[Sydla]

Most of these legal people on TV giving opinions haven't bothered reading up enough to know what's going on in this case. **** I doubt Stephen A, Sharp or any of these other fools have read up on the facts of this case. They just rely on the Brady ruling and Article 46 to say its a done deal and Zeke is screwed. I seriously doubt Zeke's attorneys would be telling him to fight it if they knew he had no chance. They know all the fact and the labor laws. I trust they know what they are doing.

And again, the Judge here clearly stated this is not like the Brady case. And yet, all the "experts" keep claiming the Brady case applies here. At least based on this judge's statements a few days ago, it does not.

 

[DogFace]

Why would they do that? To continue to waste everyone's time? I mean both sides have clear conviction to their position.

If the NFL has clear convictions they should refute Kia's opinions instead of trying to hide them. They likely thought they'd never come out.

 

[DogFace]

Has your labor law professor read every single fact?

Nope and sadly, it seems, no professional in the media does either.

Maybe Dave Helman has, but I think he's afraid to say too much.

 

[DogFace]

See I hear this part a lot but I know that Kessler was supposed to address some of the credible evidence language in the personal conduct policy and there were some twitter sports lawyers pointing to that language as well. The rest of your post is wrong too but I'm just curious about that specific language.

In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not
convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.


And here's no less an authority than Mr. Kessler, who btw has been running circles around the NFL and all the internet lawyers since he stepped onto the scene, arguing exactly what you are denying.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/905173194667151360

If he's right here, and he references previous decisions in there as well where the NFL used that language, then the whole focus only on Roberts and the process seems poorly aimed. It seems that if they can make that case the league has no shot but everyone only focuses on the process aspect.

Right. Their lead invesatgator said the main evidence (TT's account)wasn't credible. Which your link says is necessary.
The Dr's opinion seems to be highly questionable as well.

 

[Cowboys22]

Zeke will be unfairly punished. He will serve out a 6 game suspension.

Then he will take the NFL and Goddell to court for conspiring and branding him as a women beater. He will seek damages in the multimillions and will be the end of Goddell.

The NFL will succumb to public pressure and humiliation because of this. This will eventually lead to Zeke winning but it will be a long and hard fought battle.

So the commish has every right to suspend him for 6 games. The NFL wins here.

However, Zeke has every right to sue the NFL for lost wages and damages. Zeke wins this one.

I posted last night that I think that is coming as soon as they get their TRO. That is the "more news" Jerry promised was coming. Can anyone remember the league ever finding a player guilty of a felony who wasn't even charged by the legal system? I think there is a huge fight coming to challenge their right to do that. I just don't see how a private entity can investigate a private citizen and proclaim them guilty of a crime. Even if they can do what they did, they should not be allowed to publically proclaim someone committed a crime. That is for the police and the justice system to determine.