Dissing DWare

[zrinkill]

Lawrence Taylor was mean and intimidated the players on the other teams. He is the only Defensive player to win the NFL MVP award as far back as I can remember. Not knocking Ware because he has to be one of the best Defensive players of the current day, but let's not knock LT to make a point about Ware.

I did not knock LT ..... just showed there stats comparable with how long they were in the league.

Rack is trying to turn this into a personal thing ..... do not really know why.

 

[Rack]

You said, "teams threw the house and him and he still produced," as if he was beating double- and triple-teams on every play. That's not true.




But that doesn't mean Ware will never be as good. It just means he's different.

JUst want to make sure it's known, those are YOUR words, not mine.

I did not knock LT ..... just showed there stats comparable with how long they were in the league.

Rack is trying to turn this into a personal thing ..... do not really know why.

Cry more.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I watched the same games as you did Rack and I say you are exagerating LT. He was really built up by the media. I have SAID that Ware is NOT as good as LT= BUT I also said that the gap is NOT THAT BIG either and that LT was not the GOD you claim he was. The stats support me in that as well so your arguement is reduced to an opinion and nothing more.

Stats only support opinions unless you are talking purely about who got the most tackles in one season. The fact is that LT is widely revered as one of the greatest players of all time and thought by many to be the best defensive player of all time. That is high praise when you consider how many men have played the game. Here are some additional stats for Taylor:

- The Giants allowed 425 points in 1980 and that figure was reduced to 257 in 1981, Taylor's rookie year. A rookie year in which he won Defensive Rookie of the Year Honors. That same rookie year which writers at Sports Illustrated and ESPN have called the greatest rookie year in NFL History. I just did a quick google and attached an article to support this. http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/nflrookies.html
I read the SI article in a magazine several years back and if I can find it online I'll post the link to it later. Ware had a great rookie year, but no one has said he had the greatest rookie season in the History of the league. LT deserves props.
- Taylor won Defensive MVP in both 1981 and 1982 while Ware has yet to win the award.
- To go along with Defensive MVP in 1986, Taylor unanimously won the NFL MVP, which is unheard of for a Defensive player. Ware could possibly get this in his sixth season as well, but he would have to have a similar season as LT did that year, especially to get every single vote.

No one has stated that Taylor is some type of God of football, but he was certainly not overhyped in anyone's opinion but a koolaid guzzler of the highest order or perhaps someone that only watched his last few years in the league. People shouldn't dress down Taylor to build up Ware.

 

[zrinkill]

Cry more.

Pointing out your stupidity is not crying.

More like pointing and mocking.

Now get in your LT pajamas and go dream about "lowering the boom" on me.

 

[Q_the_man]

1st year LT 9 sacks (unofficial), 1 int
1st year Haley 12 sacks, 1 int
1st year Ware 8 sacks, 0 int

2nd year LT 7.5 sacks, 1 int
2nd year Haley 6.5 Sks, 0 int
2nd year Ware 11.5 Sks, 1 int

3rd year LT 9 sacks, 2 int
3rd year Haley 11.5 Sks, 0 int
3rd year Ware 14 Sks, 0 int

4th year LT 11.5 sacks, 1 int
4th year Haley 10.5 Sks, 0 int
4th year Ware(in 5 games) 5 Sks (on pace for 16), 0 int

I am fine with how Ware is developing ..... I think people get caught up in the legends of past players.

Haley was a DE...... and a beast. LT put fear in peoples heart and I will not take nothing from LT, Ware is also great and will be right up there as a great LB.

 

[superpunk]

Now get in your LT pajamas and go dream about "lowering the boom" on me.

That's hot.

 

[jimmy40]

1st year LT 9 sacks (unofficial), 1 int
1st year Haley 12 sacks, 1 int
1st year Ware 8 sacks, 0 int

2nd year LT 7.5 sacks, 1 int
2nd year Haley 6.5 Sks, 0 int
2nd year Ware 11.5 Sks, 1 int

3rd year LT 9 sacks, 2 int
3rd year Haley 11.5 Sks, 0 int
3rd year Ware 14 Sks, 0 int

4th year LT 11.5 sacks, 1 int
4th year Haley 10.5 Sks, 0 int
4th year Ware(in 5 games) 5 Sks (on pace for 16), 0 int

I am fine with how Ware is developing ..... I think people get caught up in the legends of past players.

Out of how many pass rushes????????????????????

 

[zrinkill]

Haley was a DE...... and a beast. LT put fear in peoples heart and I will not take nothing from LT, Ware is also great and will be right up there as a great LB.

Yes ..... I did not take anything from either .... would love to have players of their skills on the team.

But I think Ware is right their alongside of them so far in his career.

Taylor was probably more fluid perhaps more athletic ..... Haley was probably far more intense.

But I do not know if either was more talented. And I think that as long as he stays healthy, Ware will end up being just as great.

Only time will tell but so far Ware had improved every year ..... lets see if he continues to do so.

 

[jimmy40]

Much like the Barry Sanders legacy.

Barry was great.

But at the time a lot more people thought Emmitt was better than Barry.

It took Barry quiting on a high note and Emmitt leaving the game as a Cardinal for that to change.

What changed? The same arguments now were the same when they played.

 

[zrinkill]

Out of how many pass rushes????????????????????

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/


Maybe you will have more luck.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I did not knock LT ..... just showed there stats comparable with how long they were in the league.

Rack is trying to turn this into a personal thing ..... do not really know why.

I should have pointed out that my comment was not directed your way given all of the turds being slung around. The stat thing was actually pretty good to see (but it probably should be noted that Taylor's second season was cut short by the Strike).

 

[el_chevo]

Hopefully, Ware will post this in his locker. Good motivational material...

Fact: Demarcus Ware is not Lawrence Taylor. He is not a dominant pass rusher who strikes fear into both the QB and the OT. He doesn't knock the QB down repeatedly during the game or get consistent pressure that forces the offense to change its practices. DWare does not beat double teams.

However, DWare is among the best LBs in the NFL, and he is clearly and absolutely the best defensive player on our team...in my opinion far better as a LB than TNew is as a corner.

Everyone, including myself, has fallen prey to wanting more from DWare. I would like for him to be Charles Haley, pressuring the QB into bad throws, into leaving the pocket, beating double-teams to still make the QB rush into another player's waiting arms, knocking the QB down several times per game. True, pure pass rushers bring consistent pressure, even when they don't get sacks.

The problem is that DWare is not the LT, passrushing OLB, that we thought we were drafting. But that can be a good thing, too. We drafted a pass-rushing, smallish DE and planned to turn him into an OLB in the 3-4, a guy what would be the next LT and turn our defense into a terror for QBs.

The problem is that DWare became more than what we drafted...even Jerry Jones could not have imagined that DWare would become the all-around LB, perhaps the best in the NFL, that he has become. Ware doesn't just line up and bring it play after play after play, but he does bring a relentless effort to the position play after play after play. And Demarcus Ware does it all at OLB.

Maybe we'd like to see him pass rush with no regard for the run play after play...maybe we'd like to see him develop 2-3 counter moves as a pass rusher, put on a few more pounds of muscle, and simply overpower OT's as often as he speeds by them on the outside. And maybe we'd be willing to accept the plays he doesn't make as RBs break outside and inside his pass rush just to see him apply more pressure throughout the game, but that doesn't seem to be DWare's game, nor does it seem to be the team's plan for him.

DWare is a great LB, and he comes up with a pass rush at opportune times, and often he gets his sack when we really need it. He doesn't embarrass OT's, run through blocking backs, or bruise and batter QB's all game long. Nope, he's not Lawrence Taylor, and he's not Charles Haley when it comes to pass rushing consistently, even in the face of double teams.

But Demarcus Ware is a great LB, the best defensive player on our team, and while our pass rush seems to disappear on more pass plays than it shows up, I don't blame DWare.....I think our team continues to expect more from the other 3-4 guys they turn loose on the QB...and sadly, those guys almost never produce.

 

[Q_the_man]

Yes ..... I did not take anything from either .... would love to have players of their skills on the team.

But I think Ware is right their alongside of them so far in his career.

Taylor was probably more fluid perhaps more athletic ..... Haley was probably far more intense.

But I do not know if either was more talented. And I think that as long as he stays healthy, Ware will end up being just as great.

Only time will tell but so far Ware had improved every year ..... lets see if he continues to do so.

Haley also had Lott while Taylor did have Marxhall, Carson and alot of help, I'm also glad we have Ware I just hope Spencer and someone else can be feared or almost feared to help take a little prresure off of Ware having to do everything.

 

[jimmy40]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/


Maybe you will have more luck.

Your the one that threw stats into this, now give us all the stats.

 

[superpunk]

Your the one that threw stats into this, now give us all the stats.

Do you really believe that Taylor rushed the QB significantly more or less than Ware? At best someone could supply you with passing attempts, but it is impossible to know whether or not the player in question was (a) on the field or (b) actually rushed the passer.

So quit demanding information that you clearly know doesn't exist. If you want to take issue with his comparison, do it in a realistic manner, not a ridiculous confrontational manner.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I don't know who all is upset with Ware, or his production, but I'm certainly not one of them. I'm quite happy with his sacks and everything else he gives to us as a defense every Sunday. I wouldn't trade him for any other defensive player in the league right now.

 

[zrinkill]

Your the one that threw stats into this, now give us all the stats.

You want me to tell you how many times each rushed the passer?

Sorry but I am not gonna attempt to try and find a stat that does not exist.

If you take that as a "win" then so be it. You got me .... I do not know how many times per game each rushed the QB in his career.

But I seriously doubt either of them (esp Haley) rushed the passer less than Ware does.

LT had more interceptions by this time in his career than Ware does. If that means anything.

 

[TNCowboy]

Haley was a DE...... and a beast. LT put fear in peoples heart and I will not take nothing from LT, Ware is also great and will be right up there as a great LB.

Haley played LB in SF.

 

[khiladi]

It's alot tougher to be a dominant pass rusher than it was 20 years ago, IMO, given the offensive advantages nowadays.

No, it isn't... Teams were more run-oriented and tried grinding it out... Teams are spreading it out way more, meaning less people to protect the QB...

 

[superpunk]

No, it isn't... Teams were more run-oriented and tried grinding it out... Teams are spreading it out way more, meaning less people to protect the QB...

Note how I stressed that it was my opinion.

Now let's try a rebuttal khiladi style;

Yes it is... Teams are using more west coast principles and quick hitting routes, and because of the focus on illegal contact and defnsive holding players are able to get open alot quicker and easier, making it easier to complete passes and giving defenders less time to sack the QB.