Dixie Flag controversy

[JoeKing]

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who does believe it to be a racist symbol. How would you feel about it? Honestly.

Is belief that something is so the only prerequisite to make it so? If that's the case then there are millions of Americans that belief the President is racist and should step down for that very reason. Should those folks get their way just because that's what thy believe? When feelings are the prevailing catalysis to action, you will always end up in physical conflict with those that disagree. Feelings need to be tempered with tolerance for differing viewpoints. Until that can be achieved, this nation will continue to fall apart.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Is belief that something is so the only prerequisite to make it so?

Well there is the history behind it, but don't let that get in the way of your retort.

 

[JoeKing]

It is relevant because your premise, not to remove something because it offends and I can clearly see it's baffling to you that a state would fly what many think is a racist symbol, but...clearly it's possible.

I have already conceded the confederate flag should be moved to a place were it only has historical significance. In case it was not clear... I do support it's removal from flying in an official capacity over government facilities unless it is in a historical perspective... like in a fort that flew that flag.

 

[JoeKing]

Well there is the history behind it, but don't let that get in the way of your retort.

History matters and should be accurately preserved so that future generations see it for what it actually was.

 

[Rockport]

Is belief that something is so the only prerequisite to make it so? If that's the case then there are millions of Americans that belief the President is racist and should step down for that very reason. Should those folks get their way just because that's what thy believe? When feelings are the prevailing catalysis to action, you will always end up in physical conflict with those that disagree. Feelings need to be tempered with tolerance for differing viewpoints. Until that can be achieved, this nation will continue to fall apart.

First of all, the nation isn't falling apart. That's just a political view. The economy is surging and the majority of people are flourishing. Don't get me wrong, we do have issues but every generation since inception have faced issues.

Secondly the issue of this thread is the confederate flag. It has a long history of being a symbol for racist hate. Most states have already legislated it out of government observance. Whenever a wrong is righted you can expect the pendulum to swing a little past what is rationally normal.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I have already conceded the confederate flag should be moved to a place were it only has historical significance. In case it was not clear... I do support it's removal from flying in an official capacity over government facilities unless it is in a historical perspective... like in a fort that flew that flag.

then your arguing a fight that no one is really fighting. there are far worse things that individuals can fly or do and there really is no one calling for the flag to disappear, except with government property, ie state houses.

As far as forts go, I would not want to see it flown, but on a fort that is now just a monument, it being on display wouldn't really offend

 

[Manwiththeplan]

History matters and should be accurately preserved so that future generations see it for what it actually was.

I have never in my life objected to seeing a confederate flag in a museum

 

[JoeKing]

First of all, the nation isn't falling apart. That's just a political view. The economy is surging and the majority of people are flourishing. Don't get me wrong, we do have issues but every generation since inception have faced issues.

Secondly the issue of this thread is the confederate flag. It has a long history of being a symbol for racist hate. Most states have already legislated it out of government observance. Whenever a wrong is righted you can expect the pendulum to swing a little past what is rationally normal.

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the state of the nation. That's just as well as it is a bit off topic.

So, are you acknowledging that there is a bit of an overreaction to the "wrong that's been righted"?

 

[Rockport]

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the state of the nation. That's just as well as it is a bit off topic.

So, are you acknowledging that there is a bit of an overreaction to the "wrong that's been righted"?

Yes, I can certainly see that happening. But as I stated it's to be expected and the balance will ultimately prevail as it always does when wrongs are righted.

 

[JoeKing]

then your arguing a fight that no one is really fighting. there are far worse things that individuals can fly or do and there really is no one calling for the flag to disappear, except with government property, ie state houses.

As far as forts go, I would not want to see it flown, but on a fort that is now just a monument, it being on display wouldn't really offend

If no one is calling for the flag to disappear as you claim, then why is it's commercial availability being banned?

As far as forts go... forts that are now monuments to the past is what I was talking about. Active forts should not fly that flag.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

If no one is calling for the flag to disappear as you claim, then why is it's commercial availability being banned?

As far as forts go... forts that are now monuments to the past is what I was talking about. Active forts should not fly that flag.

Because individual supplies have decided that they do not want to be associated with that symbol, and just like you'd have a right to fly it, the have a right to not sell it. However, I'd point out that I'm pretty sure that Walmart, Target, Valley Forge, ect don't make **** flags, but they can still be obtained. The flag isn't going any where

 

[joseephuss]

If no one is calling for the flag to disappear as you claim, then why is it's commercial availability being banned?

As far as forts go... forts that are now monuments to the past is what I was talking about. Active forts should not fly that flag.

It's commercial availability is not being banned. Some businesses are making decisions not to sell them. No one forced those business to make those decisions. They just made a free market decision.

 

[JoeKing]

Because individual supplies have decided that they do not want to be associated with that symbol, and just like you'd have a right to fly it, the have a right to not sell it. However, I'd point out that I'm pretty sure that Walmart, Target, Valley Forge, ect don't make **** flags, but they can still be obtained. The flag isn't going any where

And so do you also agree with the banning of civil war games because that is what is happening on amazon?

 

[JoeKing]

It's commercial availability is not being banned. Some businesses are making decisions not to sell them. No one forced those business to make those decisions. They just made a free market decision.

Words matter and I admit I misspoke when I used the word ban. You are correct in your explanation of the free market. I just think it is an overreaction and should be rescinded.

 

[DallasEast]

Excellent timeline covering the Confederate flag's history:

http://www.southernstudies.org/2015/06/timeline-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-confederate-flag.html

 

[Manwiththeplan]

And so do you also agree with the banning of civil war games because that is what is happening on amazon?

I think Amazon has every right to decide it doesn't want to be associated with certain products, but does the existence of this video game bother me, no. I'm almost certain there's a video game that let's you play as the Taliban or as Al Queda, it's a game. Doesn't appeal to me, but it would bother me if the government officially recognized it as a great game.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Words matter and I admit I misspoke when I used the word ban. You are correct in your explanation of the free market. I just think it is an overreaction and should be rescinded.

that's the thing, can't have free speech in only one direction. to many, it is a symbol of oppression and racism, so while you or others may not view it that way and want to fly it, a larger retailer who doesn't want to alienate many of it's clients may decide it doesn't want to be associated with it.

 

[DallasEast]

Historical trivia:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/8-things-didnt-know-confederate-flag/

 

[DallasEast]

Polls

Civil War at 150: Still Relevant, Still Divisive (Pew Research Center, 2011):
http://www.people-press.org/2011/04/08/civil-war-at-150-still-relevant-still-divisive/

Winthrop University (2014)
http://www.winthrop.edu/uploadedFiles/wupoll/November2014WinthropPollResultsAndMethodology.pdf

 

[AtlCB]

First of all, the nation isn't falling apart. That's just a political view. The economy is surging and the majority of people are flourishing. Don't get me wrong, we do have issues but every generation since inception have faced issues.

Secondly the issue of this thread is the confederate flag. It has a long history of being a symbol for racist hate. Most states have already legislated it out of government observance. Whenever a wrong is righted you can expect the pendulum to swing a little past what is rationally normal.

The economy is surging??? The economy in the last 8 years has been the worst since the 70's.