Dixie Flag controversy

[Manwiththeplan]

but what good does it do to change the name of schools? i'm betting 99% of those who are calling for the school to change the name don't even know much of anything about the man.

lemmings shouting BURN THE BOOKS is all that is happening now.

burning books doesn't equal changing a name

 

[Manwiththeplan]

It makes NO difference if a group or groups of people use something and adopt it for their purposes or as some sort of symbol. That is meaningless. It doesnt change what the thing's initial purpose or meaning or representation is/was for historical purposes.

What you are saying is if anyone misuses something then that takes precedence over its real/true meaning. And when we allow that or cater to it its is an endless game. Nothing is safe when we open that door - and that is exactly what we are seeing in this country of weak minded people and those looking fr something to be offended by.

still side skirting the question, you literally said no one has ever used it as a symbol of racism, does that include the KKK?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

? Many such hate groups including the KKK have long used the flag. It became a symbol of the Confederate army who fought to keep slavery. The only "southern proud folks" who are proud of that heritage are racists or are too ignorant to understand what the flag stands for.

Boy Amber you've just painted a topic with about as wide a brush as I've come across.

I've spent much of my life studying the American Civil War both from a political and military point of view and I dare say most of the participants on both North and South were not fighting for or against slavery, but for either the preservation of the Union or the protection of states rights. The number of soldiers in the Confederate army who owned slaves was incredibly small.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

still side skirting the question, you literally said no one has ever used it as a symbol of racism, does that include the KKK?

Either you're a dumb _ _ _, or you simply dont want to accept what Ive posted. Ive answered your question. Go back and reread my posts and face reality.

 

[JoeKing]

Explain it to me then.

Did you ever see the "Dukes of Hazard" ever do or say anything that was racist... just some good ole boys never meaning no harm. Well, it's true. The Civil war was fought over so much more than slavery. Economic policies and practices, cultural values, the extent and reach of the Federal government... that flag represents a time when people stood for their convictions on such matter. For so many of the southern folks, the civil war had nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with the federal government over stepping it's authority.

 

[iceberg]

burning books doesn't equal changing a name

same mindset/mentality.

all this started because a fool went and shot people in a church. i was so proud of the way that church handled it. admired the way they did it. then all of a sudden the angry mob showed up demanding the flag be taken down.

when people were burning books they started to find EVERYTHING offensive to get in on the action and be a part of such a "beautiful" movement. so this book goes in, now this book, oh wait, there was a little naked boy in this book, we must burn it (like the jungle book or something) and the things that we find offensive we're just doing in a mob state. like they did when they burned witches then books.

this "mindset" just fans the flames and the initial request is no longer enough. another book must go.

in this case, the general lee.

another must go.

sony pulls games with the confed flag on them.

another must go.

you don't see this getting out of hand? you don't see a parallel?

ok, so now we must "burn" gone with the wind.

when will it end? when is enough, enough? and does ANY of this banning have ANY positive effect on racism? a DAMN thing to do with the shooting?

no. but burn baby burn.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Boy Amber you've just painted a topic with about as wide a brush as I've come across.

I've spent much of my life studying the American Civil War both from a political and military point of view and I dare say most of the participants on both North and South were not fighting for or against slavery, but for either the preservation of the Union or the protection of states rights. The number of soldiers in the Confederate army who owned slaves was incredibly small.

Reality sux for those who like to revise history to suit their purposes and misguided beliefs.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

so if someone supports the flag they're racist?

yea. just the flag.

and the american flag was flown as we wiped out the indians. if they deem it hateful and hurtful, does it go now? again, "thug" now racist, stop using it. and it goes on and on and you won't see it cause you're too busy wrapped up in a PC blanket playing moral superiority, it would seem.

goodbye. have a nice life. i got no time for this crap.

Valid points.

 

[JoeKing]

I'm not the angry mob type, but I think one of the main reasons we have a government is that they listen to their citizens. I don't think any one person is in a position to dictate to the government how to handle this, it's just a matter of whether they think the opinions they hear are worth listening to or not. If not, the flags will stay right where they are.



You are a belligerent human being.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[iceberg]

Boy Amber you've just painted a topic with about as wide a brush as I've come across.

I've spent much of my life studying the American Civil War both from a political and military point of view and I dare say most of the participants on both North and South were not fighting for or against slavery, but for either the preservation of the Union or the protection of states rights. The number of soldiers in the Confederate army who owned slaves was incredibly small.

i'll have to say i'm trying to brush up on the history here and researching things before i say them. i was never under the impression that the war was about slavery in as much as "stop telling us how to live" and that issue alone seems to be running rampant today.

slavery was a dark part of that also, but just a part. and to paint the entire south as racist just seems agenda driven.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The number of soldiers in the Confederate army who owned slaves was incredibly small.

Doesn't mean that they did not fight to uphold slavery. Many who fought for the south believed that they were superior to black people and many more believed that if slavery ended, it would mean several thousand more competing for resources that were scarce, since the rich elite had most of everything.

 

[iceberg]

Valid points.

unfortunately we're already seeing cases where we can't fly our own countries flag because it may offend someone.

but yea, *just* the confederate flag.

 

[iceberg]

Doesn't mean that they did not fight to uphold slavery. Many who fought for the south believed that they were superior to black people and many more believed that if slavery ended, it would mean several thousand more competing for resources that were scarce, since the rich elite had most of everything.

doesn't mean they did. and please show valid history, not revisionist, to back this up. i'd like to know more about this from an objective stance, not a DAMN IT I'M RIGHT one.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Reality sux for those who like to revise history to suit their purposes and misguided beliefs.

When I hear or read something from someone trying to portray the ACW as all about slavery that tells me they aren't as informed as they could/should be. The ACW was a giant tug-a-war about who was going to call the shots... the federal government or the individual states. Yes, much of the tussle was over the topic of slavery but it went much deeper. The institution of slavery was on a dead-walk regardless.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

doesn't mean they did. and please show valid history, not revisionist, to back this up. i'd like to know more about this from an objective stance, not a DAMN IT I'M RIGHT one.

Ok....doesn't mean they didn't. and please show valid history, not revisionist, to back this up. i'd like to know more about this from an objective stance, not a DAMN IT I'M RIGHT one.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Doesn't mean that they did not fight to uphold slavery. Many who fought for the south believed that they were superior to black people and many more believed that if slavery ended, it would mean several thousand more competing for resources that were scarce, since the rich elite had most of everything.

They fought to uphold states rights.

Unfortunately the "I'm superior" mindset was rampant in both south and north.

That's one of our weaknesses as human beings.

I'm not even going into your other statements. They indicate that you don't have a solid grasp of that time period of history.

 

[iceberg]

Ok....doesn't mean they didn't. and please show valid history, not revisionist, to back this up. i'd like to know more about this from an objective stance, not a DAMN IT I'M RIGHT one.

i'm doing research now, to be honest. yes slavery was a part of it but not the ONLY reason. i'l be glad to go dig deeper and look for credible sources that talk about *ALL* the issues that led up to the war with an open mind if you'll do the same.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

There are always going to be groups of individuals hated or despised by other groups for differences in skin color, language or just because.

Those serving in the Union army with German sounding names and accents were very much looked down up by other Union soldiers... many referred to them as the "Damn Dutch". Feel free to study the history of the 11th Corps of the Army of the Potomac for reference.

 

[JoeKing]

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

Some of the states released declarations when they seceded. So, if you wanted to know why they seceded and directly from the states themselves, it's an interesting read.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html