DMN Blog: Would you rather have Tony Romo or Jay Cutler?

[AdamJT13]

Why would you compare numbers unless they are in the same situation?

All I said was imagine Romo's numbers if he ever passed 616 times in a season and was sacked only 11 times. He put up huge numbers last season (2007) with only 520 attempts. Imagine what he would have done with another 96 attempts and less pressure on him. He had only 450 attempts this season. Imagine another 166 with less pressure on him.

Imagine Cutler's numbers if he played with the Cowboys and only had 16 sacks.

Sixteen sacks? Did you just pick a number out of thin air? And who knows how Cutler would have done if he played for the Cowboys. He'd have far fewer attempts and get sacked more. Would that make him more productive?

 

[theogt]

As I already noted, however, TD passes need to be looked at within the overall philosophy of an offense. The Cowboys might have thrown the ball more inside the redzone than the Broncos did these last 3 years.

As should interceptions. It's funny that you'd emphasize the difference in turnovers (which is small in terms of per play stats) but downplay the difference in touchdowns (which is massive). You're just pulling the ol' stats are indicative when they favor my argument and not indicative when they don't routine.

I think Brett Favre holds the NFL records for most TD passes thrown inside the 4 yard line.

Well, he holds the record for most TD passes, period, so I wouldn't imagine that's far off.

And yes, offensive line play makes a difference, but I don't accept that Cutler wasn't pressured this year. He had a rotating set of running backs like no situation I've ever seen before. They threw the ball a TON of times, which means that the defense knew where the QB would be. The guy showed a lot of escapability.

He wasn't pressured anything like what Tony was. According to Football Outsiders, Denver had the #1 rated O-line in terms of rushing and #4 in terms of passblocking. You can downplay the difference all you want, but I'm not buying it.

 

[jterrell]

Here is a stat that is often overlooked when comparing QB's.

Tony Romo's FUMBLES

2006 - fumbled 9 times lost 3 - goes with 13 picks (16 turnovers) (10 games)
2007 - fumbled 10 times lost 2 - goes with 19 picks (21 turnovers) (16 games)
2008 - fumbled 13 times lost 7 - goes with 14 picks (21 turnovers) (13 games)

Romo - 58 turnovers in 39 games started

Jay Cutler's fumbles
2006 - fumbled 8 times lost 2 - goes with 5 picks ( 7 turnovers) (5 games)
2007 - fumbled 11 times lost 4 - goes with 14 picks (18 turnovers) (16 games)
2008 - fumbled 5 times lost 2 - goes with 18 picks (20 turnovers) (16 games)

Cutler - 45 turnovers in 37 games started

Romo blows Cutler away on TD passes, but I would say 2 things about this.

1. TD passes are not necessarily an indication of the overall effectiveness of an offense. Brett Favre blew Aikman away on TD passes but Dallas had the better offensive production in the time that those teams were both at their best in the 90's. It is SOME indication of a QB's effectiveness, but it can also simply reflect a team's philosophy inside the redzone.

2. If you believe that playoff football and big games are more determined by turnovers than anything else, then it is obvious that Romo has a ball protection issue that he has to cure. 58 turnovers in 39 games equals 1 and half turnovers (roughly) for every game that Romo has started. Just for perspective, Aikman's total turnovers for his career, which includes the 1989 drubbing he had to endure, and his final year which wasn't his normal level of play, totaled LESS than the games he played in. (I think it was 163-165) Remember, that includes

1989 - 9 TD's 18 Int's
1990 - 11 TD's 18 Int's
and his last year 2000 - 7 TD's 14 Int's 2 fumbles lost

1991 - 10 total turnovers
1992 - 14 total turnovers
1993 - 9
1994 - 14
1995 - 9
1996 - 19
1997 - 16
1998 - 6
1999 - 14

THE LAST TWO YEARS BY ROMO (21 TURNOVERS) SURPASSES ANY SEASON AIKMAN HAD THROUGHOUT HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Cutler is 25 years old, Romo is 28 years old. Romo plays on the team with more offensive weapons and a better defense. Romo has been on an NFL roster for 6 years, Cutler for 3 years.

I don't know who I would take, but Romo's turnovers are the only reason it is even a discussion.

ROFL.
Bro, now you arguing out of both sides of your keyboard.

You can't use Troy Aikman's efficiency to make one point then go to Cutler for another and compare both's strengths to Romo and ignore their weaknesses.

Stick to Cutler, that is what the thread is about.

Cutler does not have low turnover numbers. And his TD's passing which is how you accumulate points is much lower. If Cutler was throwing a mere handful of picks like Jason Campbell or Chad Pennington than we could say he is a game manager like Troy was who carved through teams but didn't gunsling.

Fact is, Cutler is a gunslinger without the TDs to show for it.

 

[wileedog]

As I already noted, however, TD passes need to be looked at within the overall philosophy of an offense. The Cowboys might have thrown the ball more inside the redzone than the Broncos did these last 3 years..

Barber had 24 TDs in 2006 and 2007, most of them of the red zone variety.

This isn't a Bret Favre Red Zone offense.

 

[jterrell]

I might get flamed for this, but right now I'd take Philip Rivers over either Romo or Cutler. He even passes the QB rating test (105 this year), which some of you seem to rate so highly (I think it can be a deceptive stat sometimes). But more importantly, while I know a lot of people think he's a loudmouth punk, to me he displays the leadership qualities and on the field passion that I wish Romo would show sometimes. He's sold me all they way from when he played on a torn ACL in the AFC championship game and all through this season. I'm also a little amazed his name rarely gets mentioned on the list of best QBs in the league, considering the stellar year he's had.

Results on the field indicate Rivers is the best young QB.

 

[rcaldw]

I have to think playing with a broken pinky and running for your life the 2nd half of the season contributed a lot to the fumbles. The fact that he lost so many more of them shows you just how many of the other teams guys were in our backfield over previous years too.

That said, on the flip side I'm sure the book is more than out on him now and defenders are thinking strip the ball whenever they get within 5 yards of him. And there were a lot of guys within 5 yards of him.

Fumbling is fixable. And if he can throw for 4200 yards and 35 TDs like he did in 2007 (something Aikman never came close to either, as long as we are comparing), then I can live with the 19 interceptions (to a point).

I don't give a rip, in the end, about how many yards or TD's Romo throws for, I care about winning. Aikman led us to 3 SB wins, Romo has led us to not a single playoff win, (as long as we are comparing).

Fumbling and throwing interceptions is only fixable if you have the DESIRE to fix it, and if you have the EMOTIONAL MAKE UP to fix it. (I'm talking QB's) If a guy freaks out and gets out of control, and he can't stop doing that, then he won't stop fumbling and he won't stop throwing picks.

 

[Coy]

Cutler no doubt

 

[rcaldw]

ROFL.
Bro, now you arguing out of both sides of your keyboard.

You can't use Troy Aikman's efficiency to make one point then go to Cutler for another and compare both's strengths to Romo and ignore their weaknesses.

Stick to Cutler, that is what the thread is about.

Cutler does not have low turnover numbers. And his TD's passing which is how you accumulate points is much lower. If Cutler was throwing a mere handful of picks like Jason Campbell or Chad Pennington than we could say he is a game manager like Troy was who carved through teams but didn't gunsling.

Fact is, Cutler is a gunslinger without the TDs to show for it.

I have compared the two. Cutler, who has been called upon to carry more weight than Romo, in terms of their comparable weapons, has turned the ball over significantly LESS.

Romo, 13 MORE TURNOVERS IN ONLY 2 MORE GAMES.

13 more turnovers, is almost a season's worth.

 

[lonestar6]

You won't get flamed since that wasn't the question.

Obviously my comment was off topic :, but its just that the implication of the original question implies that Cutler is still somehow the gold standard in terms of best young QBs that Romo should be measured against, and I'm not convinced that is true anymore if you were to compare Cutler and Philips' play this year.

 

[theogt]

I don't give a rip, in the end, about how many yards or TD's Romo throws for, I care about winning. Aikman led us to 3 SB wins, Romo has led us to not a single playoff win, (as long as we are comparing).

Fumbling and throwing interceptions is only fixable if you have the DESIRE to fix it, and if you have the EMOTIONAL MAKE UP to fix it. (I'm talking QB's) If a guy freaks out and gets out of control, and he can't stop doing that, then he won't stop fumbling and he won't stop throwing picks.

If all you care about is winning, then you should love Romo, since he's 29-15 as a starter, while Cutler is 17-19.

No, its not about winning for you. It's not about touchdowns. It's not about INTs or even yardage. You just don't like Romo because you bet your reputation on the fact that he wasn't any good and you were wrong. And it still apparently stings.

 

[rcaldw]

As should interceptions. It's funny that you'd emphasize the difference in turnovers (which is small in terms of per play stats) but downplay the difference in touchdowns (which is massive). You're just pulling the ol' stats are indicative when they favor my argument and not indicative when they don't routine.

Well, he holds the record for most TD passes, period, so I wouldn't imagine that's far off.

He wasn't pressured anything like what Tony was. According to Football Outsiders, Denver had the #1 rated O-line in terms of rushing and #4 in terms of passblocking. You can downplay the difference all you want, but I'm not buying it.

I don't think we should talk per play, I think we should talk PER GAME. That is the most significant stat isn't it? How many times a game do you give it a way to the other team?

Tony has to stop turning the ball over, period, or he isn't going to become what every Cowboys fan WANTS him to become.

 

[jterrell]

I don't give a rip, in the end, about how many yards or TD's Romo throws for, I care about winning. Aikman led us to 3 SB wins, Romo has led us to not a single playoff win, (as long as we are comparing).

Fumbling and throwing interceptions is only fixable if you have the DESIRE to fix it, and if you have the EMOTIONAL MAKE UP to fix it. (I'm talking QB's) If a guy freaks out and gets out of control, and he can't stop doing that, then he won't stop fumbling and he won't stop throwing picks.

How many picks did Jason Campbell throw for this year?
And how did they do?

Brett Favre is the all-time INT leader and he seemed to win a few playoff games.

If the Cowboys sign me right now I promise to never throw an INT, ever.
We'll be great right?

I mean who needs the forward pass at all....

Romo needs to get better with ball security without doubt but overall you don't accumulate QB ratings in the mid 90's with inefficient play.

 

[theogt]

I don't think we should talk per play, I think we should talk PER GAME. That is the most significant stat isn't it? How many times a game do you give it a way to the other team?

Tony has to stop turning the ball over, period, or he isn't going to become what every Cowboys fan WANTS him to become.

Uhhh....what? Of course not. If someone has 1 turnover in a game but only has 5 pass attempts, whereas another person has 1 turnover in a game but has 40 pass attempt, there's obviously a major difference.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

If all you care about is winning, then you should love Romo, since he's 29-15 as a starter, while Cutler is 17-19.

No, its not about winning for you. It's not about touchdowns. It's not about INTs or even yardage. You just don't like Romo because you bet your reputation on the fact that he wasn't any good and you were wrong. And it still apparently stings.

And Tony plays in the best division in football against three top defenses six times a year. The Donks get the awful Chiefs and Raiders four times a year. That can't be emphasized enough.

 

[Coy]

Tony's abnormaly high number of fumbles lost this year are more a function of poor offensive line play than anything. If you don't believe that look at the sacks per pass play stat that I showed above. Tony was getting hit on nearly every play.

You're right, though, Tony does blow Cutler away in terms of TDs. Who would you rather have?

Quarterback #1:
Turnovers - 1 every 22 pass plays
Touchdowns - 1 every 16 pass plays
YPA - 8.1

Quarterback #2:
Turnovers - 1 every 27 pass plays
Touchdowns - 1 every 54 pass plays
YPA - 7.4

Not Fair, they don´t have the same weapons, Cutler could have the same or more amount of TD passes if he were in Dallas.

 

[rcaldw]

If all you care about is winning, then you should love Romo, since he's 29-15 as a starter, while Cutler is 17-19.

No, its not about winning for you. It's not about touchdowns. It's not about INTs or even yardage. You just don't like Romo because you bet your reputation on the fact that he wasn't any good and you were wrong. And yet you still can't admit it.

Hehe, we had this discussion last week. First off, I'll be happy to stand by my opinions, they are far more right than wrong, and at the end of the day that will be proven. 2nd, I thought we were putting our eggs into the basket of a free agent QB that was a Bill Parcell's project. I was wrong. Tony Romo can play in the NFL. Finally, I don't just want a guy who can play in the NFL, I want a guy who can lead us to championships. You are wrong. I'm not going to be happy with regular season wins. I want playoff wins, and ultimately, a Super Bowl win. Is that what you want?

 

[Hostile]

If all you care about is winning, then you should love Romo, since he's 29-15 as a starter, while Cutler is 17-19.

No, its not about winning for you. It's not about touchdowns. It's not about INTs or even yardage. You just don't like Romo because you bet your reputation on the fact that he wasn't any good and you were wrong. And it still apparently stings.

Ouch.

 

[theogt]

Not Fair, they don´t have the same weapons

You're right. Cutler has the better running game and offensive line.

 

[wileedog]

Aikman led us to 3 SB wins, Romo has led us to not a single playoff win, (as long as we are comparing).

What did Aikman lead us to when the offensive line began to lose key pieces and Irvin was carted off the field? When the defense began feeling the effects of several straight years of awful drafting and terrible coaches after Jimmy was gone?

I love Aikman as much as the next guy, but he would have had his 123rd, 124th and 125th concussion playing behind this line this year, that is if he ever got out of jail after he finished strangling TO.

Fumbling and throwing interceptions is only fixable if you have the DESIRE to fix it, and if you have the EMOTIONAL MAKE UP to fix it. (I'm talking QB's) If a guy freaks out and gets out of control, and he can't stop doing that, then he won't stop fumbling and he won't stop throwing picks.

A little coaching would help too. Maybe a practice or two, I don't know.

 

[superpunk]

I think it's a toss-up at this point.

Anyone taking a firm stance on one side or another is just full of it.