News: DMN: Stephen Jones: Cowboys will be ‘efficient’ in free agency

[jterrell]

Why is it the point? Do you feel we would have to pay over $12 million per season for Hardy?

it's not per year, it is total.

if we can sign greg hardy for no more than 12m guaranteed I am all for it.
put me down for that plan.

 

[Stash]

it's not per year, it is total.

if we can sign greg hardy for no more than 12m guaranteed I am all for it.
put me down for that plan.

Wasn't it $12 million for one year of Revis?

 

[phildadon86]

I actually think that the Eagles' plan is to replace McCoy with CJ Spiller.

My hope is we stay far away from Spiller. That guy is the Sean Lee of the RB position

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, Haley was not the defensive player of the year. He didn't even make the Pro Bowl. He had 6 sacks.

Haley was All Pro twice. 1990 and 1994.
The defensive player of the year in 1992 was Cortez Kennedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award

You are right. He was the UPI DPY in 1990. Having said that, I think he made a difference. I think he did exactly what we hope a big time edge rusher might do for us this year. He created a situation in which he had to be doubled off the edge and that allowed others to be better. If you look at points allowed from 1991 to 1992, I believe we were something like 17th in points allowed in 1991. In 1992, we finished 5th. Offensively, we were pretty good in both 1991 (7th) and in 1992 (5th).

 

[skinsscalper]

greg hardy production:

2010: 3 sacks
2011: 4 sacks
2012: 11 sacks
2013: 15 sacks
2014: 1 sack

With all due respect, this is exactly why some on this board are not fans of improving the pass rush through the draft (for this particular season). The "curve" that you just illustrated is VERY typical of the amount of time it takes a kid coming out of school (that's not a top 5 blue chip prospect *which we have no shot at*) to have an impact on your team.

A guy that has reached that peak is much more attractive than some kid out of Michigan State for the 2015 season. Now, that's not to say that we shouldn't invest picks in developing some of those types of players. It's just that it's a fool's game to expect these kids (regardless of their upside) to have any type of meaningful impact on your team in their first couple of years.

 

[Stash]

You are right. He was the UPI DPY in 1990. Having said that, I think he made a difference. I think he did exactly what we hope a big time edge rusher might do for us this year. He created a situation in which he had to be doubled off the edge and that allowed others to be better. If you look at points allowed from 1991 to 1992, I believe we were something like 17th in points allowed in 1991. In 1992, we finished 5th. Offensively, we were pretty good in both 1991 (7th) and in 1992 (5th).

You're making a great case.

 

[Stash]

My hope is we stay far away from Spiller. That guy is the Sean Lee of the RB position

I hear ya. 'Can't help the club in the tub.'

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think what confused you here is that Deion was the DPoY in 1994 and we signed him after that for the 1995 season.
That was a big blow to the 49ers because only Deion could cover Irvin at all.
BUT AGAIN like with Haley, Deion wasn't much of a player in 1995 on that title team. He actually was on injured reserve. --played 9 games.
He didn't make the Pro Bowl much less All Pro.
Deion's best Cowboys years were 96-98 and we were only 4 games over .500 in that stretch.

Another point to the improvement of the '92 defense was the drafting of Kevin Smith and him started at CB instead of Ike Holt.

That made a big difference to the pass defense.

Unfortunately Kevin Smith's contribution is often forgotten, while everyone wants to point to Haley (alone) as being the (only) difference.

I almost forgot the drafting of Jimmie Jones, who was a nice 3rd down pass rusher.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think what confused you here is that Deion was the DPoY in 1994 and we signed him after that for the 1995 season.
That was a big blow to the 49ers because only Deion could cover Irvin at all.
BUT AGAIN like with Haley, Deion wasn't much of a player in 1995 on that title team. He actually was on injured reserve. --played 9 games.
He didn't make the Pro Bowl much less All Pro.
Deion's best Cowboys years were 96-98 and we were only 4 games over .500 in that stretch.

No, not confusing the two. I posted on Haley and how I thought he helped in an earlier post. In the case of Deion, he was addition by subtraction. San Fran was absolutely a weaker team without him. The Cowboys were better when they needed to be. He played in the Super Bowl against Pittsburgh and they did not throwing at him. He took out his side of the field. The result of that was Larry Brown and his two interceptions.

 

[yimyammer]

The Pats paid Revis 12M last season.

.

I'd like to see an analysis of free agent signings cost vs impact as well.

If Dallas can start getting discounts like the Patriots do with free agents, I'd be up for signing guys like Revis as well. That salary is under market wouldn't you say?

 

[xwalker]

I think what confused you here is that Deion was the DPoY in 1994 and we signed him after that for the 1995 season.
That was a big blow to the 49ers because only Deion could cover Irvin at all.
BUT AGAIN like with Haley, Deion wasn't much of a player in 1995 on that title team. He actually was on injured reserve. --played 9 games.
He didn't make the Pro Bowl much less All Pro.
Deion's best Cowboys years were 96-98 and we were only 4 games over .500 in that stretch.

Deion played 9 regular season games and all of the playoff games. Saying that he didn't impact that season is silly.

Saying that Haley had minimal impact in the Super Bowl seasons is silly.

 

[Rockport]

Who is?

ROMO!!! That's what you were talking about!

 

[skinsscalper]

I'd like to see an analysis of free agent signings cost vs impact as well.

If Dallas can start getting discounts like the Patriots do with free agents, I'd be up for signing guys like Revis as well. That salary is under market wouldn't you say?

Good point. His salary (last season) was VASTLY under market but it won't be this season. That guy is going to BANK this year with the Patriots or elsewhere.

 

[Gridiron Man]

Spiller is probably going to the Jets to reunite with Chan Gailey.

So they say. I'm hoping not..

 

[Stash]

ROMO!!! That's what you were talking about!

You're confusing me. I'm advocating signing Greg Hardy and you mentioned '1/3 of your cap'.

My point is that there's no way they would pay him anywhere close to 1/3rd of the cap so your comment was way off base.

 

[jterrell]

You are right. He was the UPI DPY in 1990. Having said that, I think he made a difference. I think he did exactly what we hope a big time edge rusher might do for us this year. He created a situation in which he had to be doubled off the edge and that allowed others to be better. If you look at points allowed from 1991 to 1992, I believe we were something like 17th in points allowed in 1991. In 1992, we finished 5th. Offensively, we were pretty good in both 1991 (7th) and in 1992 (5th).

Tolbert and Jeffcoat both substantially outplayed Haley in 1992.
Haley did start over Jeffcoat but Jeffcoat playing behind Haley had 10.5 sacks to Haley's 6.

Haley was simply too limited with his back. He just wasn't on the field all that much. He finished 4th on the team amongst DE in snaps.
Part of why SF dealt him was attitude but the bigger reason was his back.

Reality is neither Haley nor Deion gave us the immediate impact we thought they would when we got them.
Both had all pro caliber seasons as Cowboys but they came later on.

And no, a guy we sign who has 6 sacks would be lauded ONLY if he was some Mincey type deal.

Demarcus Ware drew double teams for his entire career and had double digit sacks.
We don't have to guess what that looks like.

As Haley and Deion detail you can add hall of fame talent but it is no guarantee you get hall of fame return in any season.
They really are better examples of why to stand pat then they are of making a big move.

Jerry probably agrees with you which is why he made other stupid moves like Galloway AND RW11 et al later on.
But the reality is those moves were cautionary tales.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Tolbert and Jeffcoat both substantially outplayed Haley in 1992.
Haley did start over Jeffcoat but Jeffcoat playing behind Haley had 10.5 sacks to Haley's 6.

Haley was simply too limited with his back. He just wasn't on the field all that much. He finished 4th on the team amongst DE in snaps.
Part of why SF dealt him was attitude but the bigger reason was his back.

Reality is neither Haley nor Deion gave us the immediate impact we thought they would when we got them.
Both had all pro caliber seasons as Cowboys but they came later on.

And no, a guy we sign who has 6 sacks would be lauded ONLY if he was some Mincey type deal.

Demarcus Ware drew double teams for his entire career and had double digit sacks.
We don't have to guess what that looks like.

As Haley and Deion detail you can add hall of fame talent but it is no guarantee you get hall of fame return in any season.
They really are better examples of why to stand pat then they are of making a big move.

Jerry probably agrees with you which is why he made other stupid moves like Galloway AND RW11 et al later on.
But the reality is those moves were cautionary tales.

We don't agree here. I think both of those players helped us win Championships. There are cases where you bring in the right players and they can help you win Championships. If you don't agree, thats fine.

Either way, I think that we need an edge rusher that is a threat. I don't believe it can be a mid tier guy but we'll see how it goes.

 

[Gridiron Man]

I actually think that the Eagles' plan is to replace McCoy with CJ Spiller.

That's why it would be so sweet if we stole him and ran it down their throats. If they get him, we would have missed the boat. I'm fairly confident he could produce, more for us than the Egirls. Our OL is that good.

 

[jterrell]

Another point to the improvement of the '92 defense was the drafting of Kevin Smith and him started at CB instead of Ike Holt.

That made a big difference to the pass defense.

Unfortunately Kevin Smith's contribution is often forgotten, while everyone wants to point to Haley (alone) as being the (only) difference.

I almost forgot the drafting of Jimmie Jones, who was a nice 3rd down pass rusher.

Anyone who watched 1992 Dallas Cowboys football that thinks one guy was a major factor really shouldn't discuss it anymore.
That is probably the best football team of all-time.
No one guy was the difference maker.

On offense Dallas had the best OL in football plus the triplets and a great TE. Basically they were great at all 11 positions.
On defense they had 8 starter caliber DL. Tolbert and Jeffcoat had pro bowl caliber seasons. ALL the interior DL could rush the passer and get pressure.
Adding Haley certainly helped but it was a rather limited role for him and arguably his smallest of his career up to that point.

 

[jterrell]

We don't agree here. I think both of those players helped us win Championships. There are cases where you bring in the right players and they can help you win Championships. If you don't agree, thats fine.

Either way, I think that we need an edge rusher that is a threat. I don't believe it can be a mid tier guy but we'll see how it goes.

no prob disagreeing but you do gotta clean up the fact part man.
it is frustrating when someone has an opinion based upon facts that are simply not accurate.
faced with the truth of those facts they hold fast to their opinion which means they really didn't wanna discuss it all.