DMN: Will McClay builds reputation

[jterrell]

Why direct this at me? Peplaw and Fuzzy started discussing it over 70 posts ago in this thread.

sorry was ignoring that exchange.
it was and is absurd, hopefully it dies and doesnt take the thread with it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It's funny how so many in this fan base are supportive of the front office as currently constituted, and at the same time, so desperate for someone to come into the franchise and be able to do the GM's work.

Holy strawman batman.

Who are all these people that are supportive of the current front office? Hint they don't exist.

 

[Idgit]

Holy strawman batman.

Who are all these people that are supportive of the current front office? Hint they don't exist.

That seems to be a commonly-held believe among the grumpy rank and file. From what I read, opinions on Jerry Jone's front office in Dallas (not including the head coach) range from 'a very mixed bag' to 'a nuclear-powered dumpster fire of epic proportions.' There doesn't seem to be a lot of people who are happy with the way things have been at the top for a long, long time.

 

[birdwells1]

Jerry at some point just has to come out and say these guys are better then me at this, they can put in the 60-70 hours per week. As an owner he doesn't have half that time.

I don't see why he's so stubborn about letting it go, no one will fault him, is it because some may say he was a failure as a GM? The man has three rings, he hired JJ, he was a big part of a dynasty. He has to let it go.

It really is a bad business decision from a very good business man.

He's all in on the "I'll show'em" mode and I guess it's kinda like owning stock worth $80 per share and it tanks to $20, you really haven't lost money until you sell the stock. Until Jerry retires, he feels like his legacy as a gm hasn't be completed yet but if he retires today then it is and it would be a failure. Jerry would rather die with the gm title than retire and live with the knowledge that the people that said that he wasn't a football guy would've been proven right.

 

[junk]

That seems to be a commonly-held believe among the grumpy rank and file. From what I read, opinions on Jerry Jone's front office in Dallas (not including the head coach) range from 'a very mixed bag' to 'a nuclear-powered dumpster fire of epic proportions.' There doesn't seem to be a lot of people who are happy with the way things have been at the top for a long, long time.

You'd think that'd be the case, yet when ever Jerry comes up, there certainly seem to be plenty of people either supporting or defending him. If someone was happy with the front office, why would people go to such extremes to justify it as being no different than other orgs in the league. That sort of thing happened multiple times in this thread alone. Then complain about "another Jerry thread"

Oddly enough, this is the only place I visit like this. Most forums just seem to generally acknowledge the front office sucks, grumble occasionally, but rarely spend any time discussing it. The only reason it is ever much of a topic around here is because people go out of their way to try to defend the front office.

 

[junk]

And just for old time's sake, I like to dig this article out every couple of years.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/devil-and-mr-jones?fullpage=1

During the 1992 draft, for example, Jones is said to have directed Johnson to pretend to be consulting with him any time the cameras turned their way.

You heard him making ridiculous assertions such as his prediction that the 2001 Cowboys could win ten games. Jones had so many irons in the fire I couldn't keep up with them and doubted that he could either. Jones's draft choices. Jones's free agents. Jones's trades. Jones's proposal for a $1 billion entertainment center and 100,000-seat retractable-dome stadium that he expected some dim-witted suburb to build.

One afternoon during practice there was the clash of large wet bodies, offense meeting defense, and as the coaches sorted through the pile, one player remained on the ground. Like a shot, Jones made himself the center of the action. The injured player was a rookie lineman, Jason Gamble. A few minutes later Jones wandered over to where I was standing and whispered knowingly, "Fractured tibia." Fortunately, it turned out to be nothing worse than a sprained ankle, magnified by Jones's need to appear omniscient.

This strategy worked only to bankrupt the franchise, at least in terms of what is possible under the cap. More than $24 million—or one third of the current payroll—is dead money, which means it is dedicated to players no longer on the team. The absent recipients included not only recent Cowboys such as Aikman, Irvin, and Sanders but also long-vanished names like Novacek and Charles Haley.
"What some people don't recognize," he said, "is that we're one of the best at operating the system. We took a hit this year, but next year we'll be at or near the top." Jones wheeled about in his chair and called across the room to his eldest son, Stephen, who was finishing his meal. Stephen is the club's salary-cap expert. "Where will we be next year, cap-wise?" Stephen calculated that under an expanded cap of probably $71 million, the Cowboys would owe between $5 million and $10 million in dead money. "We'll be second in the league," he told Jerry.

The financial crunch is one reason Jones has appeared so schizophrenic this season, bouncing from one wild scheme to another. He rushed Carter along because he needed to cover his investment. He wasn't concerned about the reaction of the media or the fans, and he especially didn't care what his coaches thought. He made the decision to cut Banks without bothering to consult with Wade Wilson, the quarterback coach, or Reilly, the offensive coordinator, who was left with the task of rethinking overnight an offense that had been months in preparation.

Schramm, the genius behind the image of America's Team and the founder of the modern scouting system, was hustled out the side door without ceremony.

 

[Idgit]

You'd think that'd be the case, yet when ever Jerry comes up, there certainly seem to be plenty of people either supporting or defending him. If someone was happy with the front office, why would people go to such extremes to justify it as being no different than other orgs in the league. That sort of thing happened multiple times in this thread alone. Then complain about "another Jerry thread"

Oddly enough, this is the only place I visit like this. Most forums just seem to generally acknowledge the front office sucks, grumble occasionally, but rarely spend any time discussing it. The only reason it is ever much of a topic around here is because people go out of their way to try to defend the front office.

I'd imagine that all depends on the criticism being leveled. There are plenty of things to criticize about Jerry Jones. And then there are plenty of ridiculously unfair criticisms, too. I can't speak to whatever other boards you frequent, but I can say that from what I've seen, the reaction to Jerry's handling of the front office by Cowboys fans is pretty uniform everywhere. Yet there seems to be this belief on CZ that people defend him, where that's often just not the case in the actual threads.

 

[jobberone]

You'd think that'd be the case, yet when ever Jerry comes up, there certainly seem to be plenty of people either supporting or defending him. If someone was happy with the front office, why would people go to such extremes to justify it as being no different than other orgs in the league. That sort of thing happened multiple times in this thread alone. Then complain about "another Jerry thread"

Oddly enough, this is the only place I visit like this. Most forums just seem to generally acknowledge the front office sucks, grumble occasionally, but rarely spend any time discussing it. The only reason it is ever much of a topic around here is because people go out of their way to try to defend the front office.

Who defends the FO? I never see anyone 'defend' them. I do see people pointing out positives and negatives of the FO. Then there are those that either point out negatives almost all the time and a few who occasionally point out positives.

 

[casmith07]

Who defends the FO? I never see anyone 'defend' them. I do see people pointing out positives and negatives of the FO. Then there are those that either point out negatives almost all the time and a few who occasionally point out positives.

You can't point out any positives. It's either scorched earth hate Jerry train or you're a homer.

 

[Hoofbite]

I'd imagine that all depends on the criticism being leveled. There are plenty of things to criticize about Jerry Jones. And then there are plenty of ridiculously unfair criticisms, too. I can't speak to whatever other boards you frequent, but I can say that from what I've seen, the reaction to Jerry's handling of the front office by Cowboys fans is pretty uniform everywhere. Yet there seems to be this belief on CZ that people defend him, where that's often just not the case in the actual threads.

We're looking from the perspective of being a quitter in 2010, followed by a trifecta of 8-8 finishes. We're also in the midst of an offseason where the team basically doubled-back on it's widely-applauded cap stance from just 2-3 years ago, reaffirming how poorly they've handled things in the past. Having those results at hand, it's pretty easy to assume that not many are currently happy. Furthermore it would be incredibly hard to make a convincing argument for the guy for someone who was happy.

People may not be supporting him now (which should be anticipated given the results), but that wasn't always the case. In fact, there were times in the recent past where people have applauded Jerry's front office moves.

Ciskowski received a lot of love 5-6 years ago when he stepped up after Ireland left. Almost positive that there was a big push behind the idea that Tom was more instrumental than Ireland as a means of justifying the loss of Ireland at the time. When people first suspected Stephen assumed a bigger role, it was met with great applause from a large portion of the board (myself included). And most recently we have Will McClay being a very hot topic even though he's been with the team for years. Overwhelmingly these were well received moves at the time so it's not as if posters who supported Jerry's moves just never existed. I myself was pretty excited with the Stephen aspect at the time and I'd wager that a good number of other posters were just as excited with the Stephen aspect.

Although it may seem that there isn't support for Jerry, it wasn't that long ago that people were jacked about the Ciskowski and Stephen moves. Certainly wouldn't be classified as a long, long time. I will agree that pro-Jerry posting is likely at an all time low, but it certainly hasn't been that way for all that long.


As for public opinion, I don't believe the opinion is all that uniform. Guess that's why some fans look at some of the recent activities as "signs of change" whereas others view it simply as a product of circumstance. There was a thread a while back about the evolution of Jerry because Jerry was cutting players he wouldn't have a few years ago. You can pretty much take it to the bank that something similar was brought up when Jerry cut TO. There have been countless "Jerry Basher" vs. "Jerry Apologist" threads arguing both legitimate and fabricated criticisms. There have been a number of discussions about the Cowboys' front office structure compared to the rest of the league in order to try and paint Dallas as being just like everyone else. Then we have the "I thought only Jerry Jones......" or "Imagine if Jerry Jones......" type threads.

 

[igtmfo]

Broaddus said Will McClay's car is the last one to leave VR every day. He's burning the oil. It should give us some confidence.

My main beef with drafts recent years, maybe not last year, is something I heard on The Ticket I think or The Fan during the 2012 draft.

Radio guy asked a "high up draft guy" in brief interview toward end of draft: "Aren't we picking lots of guys (last few days) that were frequently injured in college?" Reply: A long pause and almost a defiant answer: "There are no injuries that would keep them from being successful NFL players. Players come back from these injuries all the time."

That wasn't the question. The question was, should we be drafting players that were always dinged up in college: D Johnson, Coale maybe some others that particular draft anyway.

Oy vey. Sounds either like a dysfunctional draft strategy, or else the Boys were hoping to gain a competitive advantage by drafting guys with injury concerns and hoping they came through. Many teams do this I guess but it seems like we were doing it for a good stretch of years. Our fingers were crossed, but didn't help with a lot of guys.

 

[manster4ever]

I don't know how good he is but it seems some think so. My guess he's more of a GM than Jerry lets on. If he is that good I hope they are grooming him for the job. If he really is that good then eventually someone will hire him as GM or asst GM somewhere. I wonder if Jerry is having to throw money at him already.

That's what I was thinking too. Some guys don't need a title to do their jobs well...but everyone needs that chedda. Hope JJ is taking care of him accordingly.

 

[jobberone]

We're looking from the perspective of being a quitter in 2010, followed by a trifecta of 8-8 finishes. We're also in the midst of an offseason where the team basically doubled-back on it's widely-applauded cap stance from just 2-3 years ago, reaffirming how poorly they've handled things in the past. Having those results at hand, it's pretty easy to assume that not many are currently happy. Furthermore it would be incredibly hard to make a convincing argument for the guy for someone who was happy.

People may not be supporting him now (which should be anticipated given the results), but that wasn't always the case. In fact, there were times in the recent past where people have applauded Jerry's front office moves.

Ciskowski received a lot of love 5-6 years ago when he stepped up after Ireland left. Almost positive that there was a big push behind the idea that Tom was more instrumental than Ireland as a means of justifying the loss of Ireland at the time. When people first suspected Stephen assumed a bigger role, it was met with great applause from a large portion of the board (myself included). And most recently we have Will McClay being a very hot topic even though he's been with the team for years. Overwhelmingly these were well received moves at the time so it's not as if posters who supported Jerry's moves just never existed. I myself was pretty excited with the Stephen aspect at the time and I'd wager that a good number of other posters were just as excited with the Stephen aspect.

Although it may seem that there isn't support for Jerry, it wasn't that long ago that people were jacked about the Ciskowski and Stephen moves. Certainly wouldn't be classified as a long, long time. I will agree that pro-Jerry posting is likely at an all time low, but it certainly hasn't been that way for all that long.


As for public opinion, I don't believe the opinion is all that uniform. Guess that's why some fans look at some of the recent activities as "signs of change" whereas others view it simply as a product of circumstance. There was a thread a while back about the evolution of Jerry because Jerry was cutting players he wouldn't have a few years ago. You can pretty much take it to the bank that something similar was brought up when Jerry cut TO. There have been countless "Jerry Basher" vs. "Jerry Apologist" threads arguing both legitimate and fabricated criticisms. There have been a number of discussions about the Cowboys' front office structure compared to the rest of the league in order to try and paint Dallas as being just like everyone else. Then we have the "I thought only Jerry Jones......" or "Imagine if Jerry Jones......" type threads.

Good post. No matter what 'side' you may be on or whether you just want the facts negative or positive this is a fair and balanced post.

 

[peplaw06]

Holy strawman batman.

Who are all these people that are supportive of the current front office? Hint they don't exist.

Sure they do... just look at this thread.

 

[Idgit]

We're looking from the perspective of being a quitter in 2010, followed by a trifecta of 8-8 finishes. We're also in the midst of an offseason where the team basically doubled-back on it's widely-applauded cap stance from just 2-3 years ago, reaffirming how poorly they've handled things in the past. Having those results at hand, it's pretty easy to assume that not many are currently happy. Furthermore it would be incredibly hard to make a convincing argument for the guy for someone who was happy.

People may not be supporting him now (which should be anticipated given the results), but that wasn't always the case. In fact, there were times in the recent past where people have applauded Jerry's front office moves.

Ciskowski received a lot of love 5-6 years ago when he stepped up after Ireland left. Almost positive that there was a big push behind the idea that Tom was more instrumental than Ireland as a means of justifying the loss of Ireland at the time. When people first suspected Stephen assumed a bigger role, it was met with great applause from a large portion of the board (myself included). And most recently we have Will McClay being a very hot topic even though he's been with the team for years. Overwhelmingly these were well received moves at the time so it's not as if posters who supported Jerry's moves just never existed. I myself was pretty excited with the Stephen aspect at the time and I'd wager that a good number of other posters were just as excited with the Stephen aspect.

Although it may seem that there isn't support for Jerry, it wasn't that long ago that people were jacked about the Ciskowski and Stephen moves. Certainly wouldn't be classified as a long, long time. I will agree that pro-Jerry posting is likely at an all time low, but it certainly hasn't been that way for all that long.


As for public opinion, I don't believe the opinion is all that uniform. Guess that's why some fans look at some of the recent activities as "signs of change" whereas others view it simply as a product of circumstance. There was a thread a while back about the evolution of Jerry because Jerry was cutting players he wouldn't have a few years ago. You can pretty much take it to the bank that something similar was brought up when Jerry cut TO. There have been countless "Jerry Basher" vs. "Jerry Apologist" threads arguing both legitimate and fabricated criticisms. There have been a number of discussions about the Cowboys' front office structure compared to the rest of the league in order to try and paint Dallas as being just like everyone else. Then we have the "I thought only Jerry Jones......" or "Imagine if Jerry Jones......" type threads.

Nice post, btw. I didn't mean to imply that nobody supports anything our front office has done in recent years. We've been teetering at 500 recently, so it stands to reason that we're not doing everything wrong. But liking or supporting a move or series of moves is not the same thing as supporting the overall direction of the franchise. Jerry Jones himself is a very mixed bag, and that's pointed out here with regularity. I think everybody pretty much gets that, and gets the fact that you can point to specific decisions our front office has made that have resulted in us not being a contending team despite the presence of a true franchise QB.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't think recent drafts have been bad and if McClay can improve on it even more then great.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Sure they do... just look at this thread.

Please quote the people who have unquestionably supported the front office structure.

I'll wait.

 

[peplaw06]

Speaking of a strawman, I never said "unquestionably supportive..."

But those who are supportive of the front office structure are:

Fuzzy
casmith07
xwalker
bsheern
Ntegrase96
etc
etc

But I suppose you know that and are being obtuse.

 

[dcstands4]

Good post

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

McClay is simply a figure head that will be moving on soon enough to be replaced with another window treatment.