Draft day thoughts-as Bob Strum stated wise to add juice to the offense!

[Spottswoode]

I’d argue more players go closer to the consensus rankings than vice versa.

But Id agree about letting Tyler settle in - just tell him his position and let him work.

Yes, Avila would walk into the job as the starter if he was a 1st round selection but that doesn’t guarantee he’ll be good right away . Like I said 2 better G prospects last year went in the 1st and they were bad year 1.

And again, I don’t think your argument or the TV talking heads arguments makes one iota of difference. The only argument that matters is the Cowboys. And FWIW, I don’t agree with your assessment of Avila but that doesn’t matter either. And have you not seen Avila moving up boards as draft day nears. Even the self anointed draft genius Mel has moved him above Torrence now.

And 2 better guard prospects last year based on what, your analysis, internet analysts? There aren’t many teams that make their selections based on the consensus of what internet GM’s think. Why not just admit that it’s an inexact science, none of us get to spend time with these prospects, none of us spend the hundreds of hours in rooms debating and pouring over every minute detail of these players, and much of what we read and hear is likely fed to us with a purpose.

This is big business, not fantasy football. The level of scrutiny these players go through would likely make the CIA blush.

 

[Pass2Run]

As far as starters, it's easier to get a starter at RB so that gives you one less position to fill.

Not sure what the FA TE market is like, but I think our guys are good enough there. JMO. To me, adding another player, like WR makes your TEs that much better.

 

[Cowboyny]

Bob Sturm?

Athletic reporter wrote an article about the subject this morning.

 

[cnuball21]

And again, I don’t think your argument or the TV talking heads arguments makes one iota of difference. The only argument that matters is the Cowboys. And FWIW, I don’t agree with your assessment of Avila but that doesn’t matter either. And have you not seen Avila moving up boards as draft day nears. Even the self anointed draft genius Mel has moved him above Torrence now.

And 2 better guard prospects last year based on what, your analysis, internet analysts? There aren’t many teams that make their selections based on the consensus of what internet GM’s think. Why not just admit that it’s an inexact science, none of us get to spend time with these prospects, none of us spend the hundreds of hours in rooms debating and pouring over every minute detail of these players, and much of what we read and hear is likely fed to us with a purpose.

This is big business, not fantasy football. The level of scrutiny these players go through would likely make the CIA blush.

Of course the Cowboys are going to make their board how they want it…my problem is just how they construct it sometimes and look for certain “types” of players instead of talent.

Avila is currently 53 on the consensus big board. Last year Zion and Green were 25th and 27th.

You’re right, it’s not an exact science but all we can go off is the information we have and what we’re able to watch. A lot of the guys that are paid to build these boards are a lot more plugged in than we are so there is some stock to it.

 

[Cowboyny]

I hear Flowers or Hyatt is the target. Luv the Downs kid as well.Tillman is a rd 2 guy that I luv.

I'm hearing that has an eye on one of the big receivers, I think it's Mingo, but he could be Johnson, who appears to be a hot name in the NFL circles today.

 

[Spottswoode]

Of course the Cowboys are going to make their board how they want it…my problem is just how they construct it sometimes and look for certain “types” of players instead of talent.

Avila is currently 53 on the consensus big board. Last year Zion and Green were 25th and 27th.

You’re right, it’s not an exact science but all we can go off is the information we have and what we’re able to watch. A lot of the guys that are paid to build these boards are a lot more plugged in than we are so there is some stock to it.

Want to make a side bet on whether Avila makes it to 53?

 

[cnuball21]

Want to make a side bet on whether Avila makes it to 53?

Haha no I because can’t control how many G hungry teams reach.

That being said I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s there at 58. If not, maybe Torrence / Mauch / Bergeron / JMS / Tippman are there at 58. Or Zavala / etc in the 3rd.

 

[Spottswoode]

Haha no I because can’t control how many G hungry teams reach.

That being said I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s there at 58. If not, maybe Torrence / Mauch / Bergeron / JMS / Tippman are there at 58. Or Zavala / etc in the 3rd.

See, you just can‘t help yourself. If someone drafts Avila, it is highly unlikely they agree with you that it’s a reach. You said Tyler was a big reach based on random internet consensus boards. If we did a redraft today, do you think Tyler would go closer to where Dallas rated him or this consensus internet board?

And most teams don’t draft strictly based on a number beside a players name. They place grades on the players and make adjustments based on multiple factors including tiers, needs, pick position, etc., etc.

If they have a R1 grade on Avila, you can bet he will be heavily considered at 26. If they have a R2 grade and no R1’s remaining, they have some decisions to make. Will he be there at 58? Can we trade back? Can we afford to gamble?

If they have 2 other OL with R2 grades but aren’t confident 1 will be there at 58, they may choose to pull the trigger at 26 or in a small trade down. That doesn’t mean it’s a reach. They didn’t have a R1 left on their board. Teams have to choose someone or the draft would end once player grades are exhausted for that round.

I’m not sure if people have noticed but Dallas has gotten pretty good at this drafty thingy.

 

[cnuball21]

See, you just can‘t help yourself. If someone drafts Avila, it is highly unlikely they agree with you that it’s a reach. You said Tyler was a big reach based on random internet consensus boards. If we did a redraft today, do you think Tyler would go closer to where Dallas rated him or this consensus internet board?

And most teams don’t draft strictly based on a number beside a players name. They place grades on the players and make adjustments based on multiple factors including tiers, needs, pick position, etc., etc.

If they have a R1 grade on Avila, you can bet he will be heavily considered at 26. If they have a R2 grade and no R1’s remaining, they have some decisions to make. Will he be there at 58? Can we trade back? Can we afford to gamble?

If they have 2 other OL with R2 grades but aren’t confident 1 will be there at 58, they may choose to pull the trigger at 26 or in a small trade down. That doesn’t mean it’s a reach. They didn’t have a R1 left on their board. Teams have to choose someone or the draft would end once player grades are exhausted for that round.

I’m not sure if people have noticed but Dallas has gotten pretty good at this drafty thingy.

I can't help myself...would you not agree teams reach for need every year? And it's not just "internet boards" it's consensus rankings that include those that are made by dudes that are paid to do this and plugged in directly with nfl teams / coaches / scouts.

I have not idea where Tyler would go in a re-draft but like I said to another poster Raihmann and Lucas played just as well and were 3rd rounders. They were value picks and not reaches.

And yes- I agree if Dallas has a 1st round or 2nd round grade on Avila he'll be considered at 26 b/c it's what they do. Doesn't mean I agree with it and I wouldn't say it's gambling if a better player is available at a higher value position to pass on him.

 

[Spottswoode]

I can't help myself...would you not agree teams reach for need every year? And it's not just "internet boards" it's consensus rankings that include those that are made by dudes that are paid to do this and plugged in directly with nfl teams / coaches / scouts.

I have not idea where Tyler would go in a re-draft but like I said to another poster Raihmann and Lucas played just as well and were 3rd rounders. They were value picks and not reaches.

And yes- I agree if Dallas has a 1st round or 2nd round grade on Avila he'll be considered at 26 b/c it's what they do. Doesn't mean I agree with it and I wouldn't say it's gambling if a better player is available at a higher value position to pass on him.

News flash #1: you don’t have to agree with their decision and they don’t care. They are placing ZERO emphasis on your feelings.

And do you honestly think these “plugged in” outsiders are getting the full story. You would have to be some kind of moron to show your cards to every other NFL team who is competing for your players.

And it’s just silly to pick a few players to suggest that rounds don’t matter when predicting player success. Drafting is SUPER easy in hindsight. Just wait until they have some NFL experience and then we can go back and decide who was and wasn’t a value pick. Dallas seems to do pretty well with finding stud OL players. I’ll need to do a little research to see where they were drafted.

And I don’t know if or how often teams reach because I’m not in the room or involved in the discussions, but:

News flash #2, neither are you or these paid analysts. It’s easy to be an arm chair analyst and say “see, we had that player ranked 39th and they got him at the end of R1, what a reach”. That’s not how the draft works in these war rooms.

They could give 2 ___’s about your ratings or these analysts ratings. Neither you nor these paid analysts have spent the thousands of hours analyzing teem needs, prospect projections, and a whole host of other considerations.

This isn’t Friday night fantasy drafting with the fella’s.

 

[ghst187]

Don’t agree
Defense was good enough against Brock Purdy. Better QBs will be far more effective. We need a difference maker at DT in the worst way

I agree on the DT, I just don’t see one of those in this draft…we should’ve paid up for Robinson but instead will have to face him twice a year

 

[cnuball21]

News flash #1: you don’t have to agree with their decision and they don’t care. They are placing ZERO emphasis on your feelings.

And do you honestly think these “plugged in” outsiders are getting the full story. You would have to be some kind of moron to show your cards to every other NFL team who is competing for your players.

And it’s just silly to pick a few players to suggest that rounds don’t matter when predicting player success. Drafting is SUPER easy in hindsight. Just wait until they have some NFL experience and then we can go back and decide who was and wasn’t a value pick. Dallas seems to do pretty well with finding stud OL players. I’ll need to do a little research to see where they were drafted.

And I don’t know if or how often teams reach because I’m not in the room or involved in the discussions, but:

News flash #2, neither are you or these paid analysts. It’s easy to be an arm chair analyst and say “see, we had that player ranked 39th and they got him at the end of R1, what a reach”. That’s not how the draft works in these war rooms.

They could give 2 ___’s about your ratings or these analysts ratings. Neither you nor these paid analysts have spent the thousands of hours analyzing teem needs, prospect projections, and a whole host of other considerations.

This isn’t Friday night fantasy drafting with the fella’s.

I’m not referencing hindsight drafting…of course that’s easy. It’s literally players that are just taken around the time they are slotted to go is usually going to yield more value.

And yes, I do believe the higher end draft analysts know way more than we do in regards to player ratings, projections etc. McCarthy also just recently said they’ve gone through 20/30 mock draft simulations which actually even surprised me.

No, they don’t care what I think and probably most analysts…but you better believe they’re listening and playing out different scenarios.

 

[Spottswoode]

I’m not referencing hindsight drafting…of course that’s easy. It’s literally players that are just taken around the time they are slotted to go is usually going to yield more value.

And yes, I do believe the higher end draft analysts know way more than we do in regards to player ratings, projections etc. McCarthy also just recently said they’ve gone through 20/30 mock draft simulations which actually even surprised me.

No, they don’t care what I think and probably most analysts…but you better believe they’re listening and playing out different scenarios.

Out of curiosity, where do the Cowboys have Avila slotted to go?

And you are speaking in hindsight. Did you not reference 2 players who were drafted in R3 and say they were value picks. You do realize to get to R3, they had to be passed over a few times, right?

 

[cnuball21]

Out of curiosity, where do the Cowboys have Avila slotted to go?

I have no idea…but I sure as heck hope it isn’t 26.

 

[Spottswoode]

I think that is crystal clear from your many of posts. I’m sure the Cowboys competitive intelligence team has been made aware of your strong objections.

 

[cnuball21]

I think that is crystal clear from your many of posts. I’m sure the Cowboys competitive intelligence team has been made aware of your strong objections.

Yea - I hope they have. I’d much rather see them take a premium position that falls to 26 and take a G later when the value matches up then reach for a bunch of needs.

We’ll see.

 

[Spottswoode]

Yea - I hope they have. I’d much rather see them take a premium position that falls to 26 and take a G later when the value matches up then reach for a bunch of needs.

We’ll see.

I have no idea who they will draft. But I would assume this value you keep discussing is relative to their draft position.

It’s great when in hindsight you end up getting R1 value in R3. However, I assume anyone taken in R3 probably has a value assigned that is close to R3. I would also assume that there was likely a reason why that R3 player didn’t have a R1 value. But I may be off on that thinking.

 

[xwalker]

Merry Christmas to all! Draft day is finally here!

When you look back at the entire offseason, the draft has to be about upgrading the offense:

-Cowboys lost to the 49ers due to their inability to run the football and lack of receiving weapons to threaten their strong defense. Outside of the 4th quarter when the Cowboy D started to ware down, they pretty much held the high powered 49er offense in check.

-Look what they did in fa: retained three key role players in Lve, Wilson and Hankins. Upgraded their biggest need position in Gilmore. Yes, they can use more help within the interior of their DL, add more depth at both LB/CB, but this unit is good enough as is, we cannot say the same about the offense.

-Offense lost 4 starters in Zeke, Shultz, McGovern, Brown. Adding Cooks was nice, but it doesn't move the needle enough. They want to be able to play complementary football; consistently be able to run the football, maintain drives, give their playmakers the best opportunities to succeed and score TD's. Run game is about their OL, adding another starting caliber back. Passing game we need at least 1 more weapon if not two.

As for tonight, I'm a big fan of both McDonald/Forbes, but I think the Cowboys would be the best served to take the best offensive player available if the value is right. Kincaid/Mayer, Flowers, Addison, Hyatt, Johnson, Gibbs, Wright, Avilia. I really don't care if it a low valued position, especially picking at 26, just find the best player who will make the biggest impact. This front office has earned my trust, especially with their 1st rd picks, as long as they stay away from poor character or reaching to fill a need that should get a good player no matter how the picks go ahead of them.

Need More Juice!

 

[cnuball21]

I have no idea who they will draft. But I would assume this value you keep discussing is relative to their draft position.

It’s great when in hindsight you end up getting R1 value in R3. However, I assume anyone taken in R3 probably has a value assigned that is close to R3. I would also assume that there was likely a reason why that R3 player didn’t have a R1 value. But I may be off on that thinking.

Again - it’s not hindsight it’s more so those teams just getting good value bc players slid. Ex - Raihmann was a solid 2nd round OT that fell to the 3rd.

It’s not like he was some no name that magically hit.

 

[cnuball21]

Again - it’s not hindsight it’s more so those teams just getting good value bc players slid. Ex - Raihmann was a solid 2nd round OT that fell to the 3rd.

It’s not like he was some no name that magically hit.

What I mean is if they have Tyler and Raihmann as 2nd rounders let the board fall to them. If someone snags Tyler in this scenario they luck out bc Raihmann fell.

Doesn’t always workout this way - but just how I see it best to maximize value.