Draft rumors (Cowboys)

[reddyuta]

I keep checking this thread but yet to see an actual Rumor.

 

[jnday]

The Elliott crowd wouldn't be so bad if they could just say: "Yes, RB has a lot of baggage. Yes, we'll be paying him top 8 money and that's not a bargain. Yes, he has the same questions that Bosa has. Yes, RB has less positional value than safety. Yes, every RB drafted top 5 has busted since LT. But I think he's worth the pick despite all of that. " Instead it's a bunch awkward justifications and circular logic.

I guess you think the Ramsey crowd is any better. I am not crazy about either one of them and both sides are are pushing the truth about their pet cats.

 

[ConceptCoop]

I guess you think the Ramsey crowd is any better.

I really don't see a defined Ramsey crowd. I see the Zeke crowd and the "don't draft a RB at #4" crowd - which consists of guys wanting Ramsey, Bosa, and even Tunsil.

 

[tyke1doe]

I agree with you on the last part. But I have read of players leaving early to join a weak class or, less often, to avoid a stacked one. If there was a class of RBs to avoid in the last 25 years - this is the one. Granted, Elliott is not the kind of prospect who needs to worry about the class.

Fair enough. But I mentioned "superstar" players. I don't doubt many "average" to "good" players measure the draft class and come out early to avoid entering with the better players. But Ezekiel Elliott is among the better players, and he has already won a National Championship. Aside from the Heisman, he really had no reason to return to OSU. I don't think he cared that next year a strong class, featuring Leonard Fournette, was coming out.

 

[tyke1doe]

Just add this to the list of exaggerations from the Elliott crowd. He never fumbled. His contract at 4 would be a bargain. It was really Elliott who found Bin Laden and killed him with his own bare hands.

You're funny. No, really, you are. Your comments make me laugh.

 

[ConceptCoop]

Fair enough. But I mentioned "superstar" players. I don't doubt many "average" to "good" players measure the draft class and come out early to avoid entering with the better players. But Ezekiel Elliott is among the better players, and he has already won a National Championship. Aside from the Heisman, he really had no reason to return to OSU. I don't think he cared that next year a strong class, featuring Leonard Fournette, was coming out.

I agree 100%. Especially at RB. If you're a safe 1st round pick at RB, you leave. Period.

 

[Stash]

I respect your opinions, but I disagree with you here. Usually superstar players enter the draft when they reach their junior year. And I believe the primary motivations are:
1. Can start earning money earlier and
2. Running backs know one more year in college means one less year in the NFL, i.e., if they're going to take licks, they might as well get paid for it versus one extra year of taking licks and not getting paid in college.

I doubt very seriously EE was worried about the 2017 draft class.

Maybe not exclusively him, but virtually every one of the juniors eligible for the draft elected to turn pro. To me, that's a pattern and I believe the large quantity of quality backs coming in 2017 had something to do with it.

If you disagree, that's cool.

 

[tyke1doe]

Maybe not exclusively him, but virtually every one of the juniors eligible for the draft elected to turn pro. To me, that's a pattern and I believe the large quantity of quality backs coming in 2017 had something to do with it.

If you disagree, that's cool.

After considering what ConceptCoop said, I agree with you. I just don't think it applies to Ezekiel Elliott.

So, in a sense, I stand corrected.

 

[NEODOG]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/04/22/nfl-draft-jalen-ramsey-florida-state-scouting-report

He is the best DB, corner or safety in this draft. He may need a year to refine his play at CB, but he will be a stud.


"The best way I can describe him to those who haven’t seen him is to imagine if you could go back and draft Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor at the same time ... and combine that talent into the same guy. That’s how good he can be."

"Strengths: Plays press coverage as aggressively and perfectly as you can draw it up. He gets his hands on receivers and tight ends and can re-route them right out of the game. Gets his long arms on targets and will follow them through the route. Beats blocks like a linebacker at times—he plays as if he weighs 10 pounds more than he does. Played linebacker depth with linebacker responsibilities at times and wasn’t overwhelmed from a strength perspective.
As an outside and slot corner, keeps his backpedal low and uncorks quickly to cover. Has the hip turn and fluidity to run with slot receivers and adjust to option routes on the fly. Adept in man and zone schemes—he can tear through routes as a base man corner, but he has the patience to hang back and work with his fellow defenders on handoffs. Raw as a blitzer, but he certainly has the speed and strength to do it.

As an outside cornerback, Ramsey isn’t going to get beaten very often from a quickness perspective. Has the straight-line speed to get legitimate pressures on blitzes. Transitions extremely well from pressing at the start of a route to pattern-matching through a receiver’s quick cuts. Can match most moves receivers put on him and would be a natural in any pattern-read scheme. Sniffs out stutter-go routes as if he’s the one running them. Will use his long arms to time deflections very well. Very tough to get past once he locks inside position to the boundary. Will dominate as a tackler in off-coverage to prevent yards after catch. Force wrap tackler who thrives in the physical facet of the game. A nightmare to deal with in contested catch situations because he can leap with anyone and is very physical in short spaces.

He plays like a cornerback, thinks like a safety, hits like a linebacker. That’s why I think he’s the best player in this draft class—he plays multiple positions at a very high level, and those positions are among the most important in the game. This isn’t a safety who can play box once in a while and move to the slot against slower receivers. This isn’t an outside cornerback who can hold his own in the slot once in a while. This is a starter-quality player at three distinct defensive positions right now. Perhaps the most exciting thing about Ramsey’s potential is what he’ll look like when he has more experience at cornerback and an NFL coaching staff to take him through his paces. The comparison below may seem like a stretch to some, especially given Woodson’s interception totals at Michigan, but if that offends you, Tyrann Mathieu is a pretty good comp as well. Either way, the team that selects Jalen Ramsey gets an elite interchangeable safety, a great slot defender and a potential shutdown cornerback, all in the same guy. Wherever he’s selected, he’s going to be a bargain for that reason alone."

"Weaknesses: Competitive temperament can get the best of him at times—occasionally works too hard to wrestle in blocks and doesn’t peel off in time for tackle opportunities. Stat totals are skewed by multiple dropped interceptions throughout his career. Needs to get better with his hands and focus on maximizing interception opportunities. Can get bodied out and fooled by crossing routes when in press coverage. Not always as fast on long angle routes like slants and drags; quicker receivers have been able to run past him to make catches on late-developing plays. Needs work on some of the finer elements of the boundary cornerback position if he’s put there full-time in the NFL. He must flip his hips quicker to deal with speed up the field, catch up on crossing routes and maintain his low backpedal and quick transition on every play. Needs seasoning at cornerback, but he showed a lot in one season out there."

Yet people here say he's garbage....... That's laughable

 

[Verdict]

Who is it that you think can't play? EE is as likely as being "unable to play" as Bosa is, they are at least equals athletically for there respective positions. Bosa is technically as good as it gets, Elliott is the same at the running back position.

I'm saying don't force a pick based on need.

 

[Verdict]

I've come around on the idea of taking Elliott. I don't like it but it seems like that's what they want to do if Ramsey is gone. Personally, I am hoping for a trade down but that seems unlikely.

Elliott will likely be a fine player for us behind this OL. So it's not like we would have just drafted a bum.

But it highlights the short term visions this front office has where their "plans" seem to be 1 or 2 year windows then they just flip the script and do something else. 2-3 years ago it was continue to build the OL to not have to invest a lot of resources in the TB position and then they can use those resources to improve other areas.

Today it seems like the plan is take the TB with the best pick we've had in 20+ years in the draft and forget what we said 2 years ago. It's mindnumbing but certainly not surprising from this group.

I'm in the draft the BPA camp, not a shill for Elliott. What makes drafting Elliott a short sighted knee jerk pick? If he is the best player available, then I am on board with drafting him. Hell, I would be ok drafting a Kicker first overall, if the grade was there. But to grade that high, he would have to be able to kick 80 yard field goals with regularity, so that isn't likely to happen. But if a kicker could hit 80 percent of his 80 yard field goals I wouldn't be saying don't draft him because that's not how its done.

Every draft is different, and the pendulum swings back and forth over time. Twenty years ago, running backs were considered more valuable than they are now. If I was one of the have not teams at the QB position you can bet your sweet *** that if I had the opportunity to draft the next Adrian Peterson, I would be all over drafting him like a duck on a june bug.

 

[Oh_Canada]

It has been reported by many media outlets that Marinelli prefers him. Two or three threads on here has the info.

I'm certain there is no posturing there at all. The defensive coordinator wants the team to take an RB. Ok.

 

[Cowboys20]

It's very simple, no quality defensive line rush, you can draft the best corner on the board and he will be beaten every time because opposing QB's will have all day to pick their targets. I don't understand why so many posters would draft Ramsey over improving our weak defensive line. Every here knows for a fact that our d-line is weak. If you're one that thinks otherwise, I'm sorry but you're in denial.

 

[BlindFaith]

It's very simple, no quality defensive line rush, you can draft the best corner on the board and he will be beaten every time because opposing QB's will have all day to pick their targets. I don't understand why so many posters would draft Ramsey over improving our weak defensive line. Every here knows for a fact that our d-line is weak. If you're one that thinks otherwise, I'm sorry but you're in denial.

Unfortunately there isn't a true top 10 pass rusher in this draft. Bosa is not that guy. And you don't draft for need, especially a short term need like we have with Lawrence and Gregory being out the first 4 games. You try and draft the best player available. That would be Ramsey. And he also fits a need as we will most likely be losing Carr and Claiborne next year.

 

[pansophy]

I was never a fan of Elliot at #4, but that seals it for me. If history has proven anything, its to always do the opposite of what Jerry Jones wants to do.

You mean like we should have taken Spears ahead of Ware like Parcells wanted to? Jerry isn't all 6's and 7's.

 

[Sydla]

I'm in the draft the BPA camp, not a shill for Elliott. What makes drafting Elliott a short sighted knee jerk pick? If he is the best player available, then I am on board with drafting him. Hell, I would be ok drafting a Kicker first overall, if the grade was there. But to grade that high, he would have to be able to kick 80 yard field goals with regularity, so that isn't likely to happen. But if a kicker could hit 80 percent of his 80 yard field goals I wouldn't be saying don't draft him because that's not how its done.

Every draft is different, and the pendulum swings back and forth over time. Twenty years ago, running backs were considered more valuable than they are now. If I was one of the have not teams at the QB position you can bet your sweet *** that if I had the opportunity to draft the next Adrian Peterson, I would be all over drafting him like a duck on a june bug.

To me it's knee jerk because you've spent the last 3-4 years building a strong OL and telling people you built a powerful, talented OL so as to not have to spend top assets on a TB to run behind your OL. And then, you do what you said you really wanted to avoid and use a top asset on a TB.

BPA doesn't necessarily mean rank the guys 1-50 and then draft them in that order. Tunsil is probably every bit the player Elliott is and we probably wouldn't even consider taking him.

 

[iceberg]

I really don't see a defined Ramsey crowd. I see the Zeke crowd and the "don't draft a RB at #4" crowd - which consists of guys wanting Ramsey, Bosa, and even Tunsil.

cause if we don't draft a RB those are the players most likely to be drafted at that spot. guys after someone, anyone, else are less agenda focused other than they don't see the value of a RB so no RB would do for them.

 

[iceberg]

Maybe not exclusively him, but virtually every one of the juniors eligible for the draft elected to turn pro. To me, that's a pattern and I believe the large quantity of quality backs coming in 2017 had something to do with it.

If you disagree, that's cool.

i like to agree to disagree.

that way i'm sure to cover all my bases.

 

[Plankton]

Yeah, he's so "special" that he would simply be another name in next year's draft, set to be loaded with top running back options. Options which could be had much later than the #4 pick overall. There's a reason why all the junior eligible backs jumped at the chance to enter the 2016 draft - less competition to get drafted.

Elliott wouldn't be just another name in any draft - that's just silly. He has been an outstanding producer for his two seasons as a starter, and has established himself as a true difference maker.

Truthfully, I would take Elliott over anyone eligible next year - Fournette, McCaffrey, Chubb, Cook - any of them. Chubb will be coming off of a serious knee injury, and it remains to be seen what he looks like after that. McCaffrey is very good, and nearly as well rounded, but, IMHO, his body type will preclude him from being as tough of an inside runner as Elliott. Cook is outstanding - he actually is my favorite for next year, but I don't think he's as well rounded as Elliott, in particular in blocking. Fournette is a horse, but look at his games against Alabama - he has barely cracked 100 yards total in two games against them. Elliott went for over 200 against them in one game, and flat out dominated Alabama when the stakes were the highest.

It's literally to the point now where people who don't see the value in taking a RB in the top five will take to making statements that are not really backed up by any facts. This is all opinion based, yet some will literally cling to their argument as if it's an indisputable fact.

 

[Swanny]

I respect your opinions, but I disagree with you here. Usually superstar players enter the draft when they reach their junior year. And I believe the primary motivations are:
1. Can start earning money earlier and
2. Running backs know one more year in college means one less year in the NFL, i.e., if they're going to take licks, they might as well get paid for it versus one extra year of taking licks and not getting paid in college.

I doubt very seriously EE was worried about the 2017 draft class.

EE would be the 3rd back taken in the 2017 class. I truly believe Cook and Fournette are better prospects than EE. But Zeke is entering the draft for money reasons and not because he is scared about competition in 2017. I dont blame any of these guys for trying to earn money ASAP. These guys bodies only last so long. Might as well start making that money ASAP.