Elite QB + No Team or Elite Team + No QB

[5Stars]

^

This is exactly what I'm trying to subscribe too...

Personal issues I'm having.

1. Romo - I'm with UFCrules and think he has some issues that hurt us...this is hard to get past. It really is.

2. Jones building a Monster - Not without another football mind to help him out. He did great with Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson and also with Garrett to a point. But now that he's pulled most of Garrett's power...I'm not sure he can make the best decisions. So I agree...why take away the one thing that gives us a little hope.

3. Jones finding the final pieces now - See above.

4. "getting lucky with a couple players in the draft or of vets having career years" - I agree again, but this is a LOT to ask for.

5. This team is NOT bargain basement at all...However there are major question marks on almost every one of our star players...Romo, Austin(inj), Dez(character), Tyron(turning the corner to elite LT?), Ratliff(inj), Ware(shoulder/neck), Lee(inj), Carter (inj). They all need to contribute heavily this year for us to win. Again, possible...but...has it ever happened?

So I'm trying to subscribe but for me to flat out ignore all of those issues...It's tough.

What in the hell is wrong with you, Shango? Your number 5 bullet is just like all the other crybabies on this forum that want pro-bowlers at every position on the team!

And...to top it off? You agree with ufcrules1? The poster that blames the whole teams problems on one man...Romo? Apparently you don't know who you are agreeing with!

You just lost a fan of yours...have a nice day, bro!


Spoiled brats!

 

[5Stars]

Soooo...Why have we not had a winning record in 3 years? I'm curious..

I'm gonna see if you can answer this without contradicting yourself.

I won't answer for him but, it's because IT'S A TEAM GAME!

 

[Shango]

I won't answer for him but, it's because IT'S A TEAM GAME!

And that's the point I was trying to make before someone turned this into a Romo bashing thread...like always.

Don't worry...I'm weeding people out anyway...only want to talk to people that are rational about the Dallas Cowboys.

Holla!

 

[Hoofbite]

Obviously QB is the most important piece but of the QBs who could be called "elite" in the NFL, none of the were playing the Superbowl this year.

Of course, Flacco's play was elite through the playoffs so there's that. Not sure that makes a case either way but it gives some support to the QB answer in that the best QB play won even if it was from a rather unlikely source.

IMO, I'm going team if given the choice of either extreme. I don't care how good a QB is, if you have nothing else you're severely limited.

Having one half of the equation be elite negates the absolute need for the other to be elite. A competent QB can lead an elite team to many victories. An elite QB can lead a competent team to many victories as well.

In this regard, I'll take my chances in finding 1 competent QB over finding 21 other competent players any day of the week.

 

[Shango]

Obviously QB is the most important piece but of the QBs who could be called "elite" in the NFL, none of the were playing the Superbowl this year.

Of course, Flacco's play was elite through the playoffs so there's that. Not sure that makes a case either way but it gives some support to the QB answer in that the best QB play won even if it was from a rather unlikely source.

IMO, I'm going team if given the choice of either extreme. I don't care how good a QB is, if you have nothing else you're severely limited.

Having one half of the equation be elite negates the absolute need for the other to be elite. A competent QB can lead an elite team to many victories. An elite QB can lead a competent team to many victories as well.

In this regard, I'll take my chances in finding 1 competent QB over finding 21 other competent players any day of the week.

Excellent post!!!

 

[5Stars]

And that's the point I was trying to make before someone turned this into a Romo bashing thread...like always.

Don't worry...I'm weeding people out anyway...only want to talk to people that are rational about the Dallas Cowboys.

Holla!

Who lost against the Commanders to lose the division?

 

[Shango]

Who lost against the Commanders to lose the division?

Look...if you are trying to fish me into dragging Romo it's not gonna happen. I refuse to do that.

We have trouble pass protecting...
We have trouble running...
We have trouble rushing the passer in critical moments...
We have trouble creating turnovers...

We need to fix all of that. Trying to pin everything on one player is flat out stupid. And that goes for the people who do it as well the people who accuse others of doing it. Why? Because if someone is blaming one person then it's really too stupid to address.

 

[5Stars]

Look...if you are trying to fish me into dragging Romo it's not gonna happen. I refuse to do that.

We have trouble pass protecting...
We have trouble running...
We have trouble rushing the passer in critical moments...
We have trouble creating turnovers...

We need to fix all of that. Trying to pin everything on one player is flat out stupid. And that goes for the people who do it as well the people who accuse others of doing it. Why? Because if someone is blaming one person then it's really too stupid to address.

That was last year. Maybe the new coaches can change all of that.

It's going to be fun to watch what this team will do...it will be a totally new team. Offense and Defense. The core of the team is there and some practice squad players. Other players coming in for tryouts....

I don't wonder why? I wonder when?

 

[TwoDeep3]

Here is a question for you.

Was Steve Beuerlein a good quarterback or not?

Romo could win it all with the right team. Period.

But so could Vick. Period.

Just like coaches are greatness when they have the talent to be great, so too are quarterbacks. Surround a guy with talent and a lesser skilled player can achieve the ultimate goal.

A bus driver can win it all if the cards come to a team with a stellar defense.

And this is where the angst comes from watching this team. The love fest the GM has with Romo ignores that the team needs skill players around him, including a line to protect him.

All quarterbacks have flaws. Brady, Manning(s), Montana, Aikman, Staubach, they all have weaknesses.

The coaching staff finds those and puts the quarterback in a position to succeed and stay away from the areas where they are weak.

Romo tries to do too much when the game is on the line. Hence the pick @ Washington.

But he is the only salvation for this team offensively, and it is the management that has assembled this muddled mess that is cast in the role of protecting Romo and keeping him away from those decisions to carry the team.

They fail hence he fails.

So too the defense has to step up and prevent the other team from scoring more than Romo can legitimately handle with the tools he has surrounding him.

It is this mismanagement that created the cap problems that caused the team to sign Romo for a lot of money and risk him with little protection.

One major injury and the Romo deal is a team breaker for seasons to come.

So back to the original question.

Was Beuerlein a good quarterback or not?

Because if you were around, and watched the games where he took over for Aikman when he was injured, you'd note that Beuerlein was really skilled.

And while I am perhaps the biggest Aikman loyalist on this board, I believe the 1992 season would still have produced a quarterback that won the Super Bowl and perhaps have been MVP had Steve Beuerlein been under center.

Circumstance meets opportunity meets talent equals results; and a bus driver can win it all.

Our circumstance - poor drafting and free agency - meets opportunity - poor cap management - meets talent - we don't have enough in the trenches to be a serious player - means 8-8 and a .500 team.

Frankly, it's almost a simple math equation.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Soooo...Why have we not had a winning record in 3 years? I'm curious..

I'm gonna see if you can answer this without contradicting yourself.

53 players on the team, only one Romo.

And Ronald McDonald's ineptitude doesn't help him either.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

And that's the point I was trying to make before someone turned this into a Romo bashing thread...like always.

Don't worry...I'm weeding people out anyway...only want to talk to people that are rational about the Dallas Cowboys.

Holla!

Ironic.

 

[blindzebra]

Wow, so much is wrong with this thread.

First, we are not at either end of that question. So the point of the thread has no merit.

Second, Romo's contract is not hurting us this year or beyond. We have money we can roll into next year plus the 5 million a season Mara stole from us returns.

Yes, we have questions but it is very unlikely that we will have the injuries that hit us last year.

Finally I do wonder if any of those agreeing with the OP's nonsense realizes that despite massive injuries, the worst rushing season we have had and one of the worse defensive seasons that we were in playoff contention?

 

[Shango]

Here is a question for you.

Was Steve Beuerlein a good quarterback or not?

Romo could win it all with the right team. Period.

But so could Vick. Period.

Just like coaches are greatness when they have the talent to be great, so too are quarterbacks. Surround a guy with talent and a lesser skilled player can achieve the ultimate goal.

A bus driver can win it all if the cards come to a team with a stellar defense.

And this is where the angst comes from watching this team. The love fest the GM has with Romo ignores that the team needs skill players around him, including a line to protect him.

All quarterbacks have flaws. Brady, Manning(s), Montana, Aikman, Staubach, they all have weaknesses.

The coaching staff finds those and puts the quarterback in a position to succeed and stay away from the areas where they are weak.

Romo tries to do too much when the game is on the line. Hence the pick @ Washington.

But he is the only salvation for this team offensively, and it is the management that has assembled this muddled mess that is cast in the role of protecting Romo and keeping him away from those decisions to carry the team.

They fail hence he fails.

So too the defense has to step up and prevent the other team from scoring more than Romo can legitimately handle with the tools he has surrounding him.

It is this mismanagement that created the cap problems that caused the team to sign Romo for a lot of money and risk him with little protection.

One major injury and the Romo deal is a team breaker for seasons to come.

So back to the original question.

Was Beuerlein a good quarterback or not?

Because if you were around, and watched the games where he took over for Aikman when he was injured, you'd note that Beuerlein was really skilled.

And while I am perhaps the biggest Aikman loyalist on this board, I believe the 1992 season would still have produced a quarterback that won the Super Bowl and perhaps have been MVP had Steve Beuerlein been under center.

Circumstance meets opportunity meets talent equals results; and a bus driver can win it all.

Our circumstance - poor drafting and free agency - meets opportunity - poor cap management - meets talent - we don't have enough in the trenches to be a serious player - means 8-8 and a .500 team.

Frankly, it's almost a simple math equation.

Sup Deep!

I think I am a pretty big Aikman fan too, however I fell out with him late in his career...lol But, he was the best bus driving QB in NFL history by far. Super precise with his passes...made correct changes at the line. Rode his weapons. In all his greatness he could NOT carry this team by himself.

Could Steve have done it too? I certainly believe so, but our chances were much better with Aikman.

Our pass protecting has been bad for a long time. The reason I pushed SO HARD for Romo was the fact that he could avoid the mess and make a play while Bledsoe was stuck in the pocket like Frankenstein. But since then our pass protection has gotten worse and if you look back at our games you'll see Romo doing everything and being our entire offense. People get mad at Garrett for passing so much but...he needs to win and sometimes that's all we got.

I can honestly say that I don't believe ANY QB can excel in this environment.

In my opinion we need a lot of help for our QB...and not doing that is complete disrespect no matter how much you say you love him.

The Romo question is silly....it's SOOOO much bigger than that.

Romo could most definitely win a SB with the right team and right coaching situation.

But at the same time...

If Quincy Carter had a better supporting cast then he would have won more than 1 playoff game LOL!!! And he was horrible.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Wow, so much is wrong with this thread.

First, we are not at either end of that question. So the point of the thread has no merit.

Second, Romo's contract is not hurting us this year or beyond. We have money we can roll into next year plus the 5 million a season Mara stole from us returns.

Yes, we have questions but it is very unlikely that we will have the injuries that hit us last year.

Finally I do wonder if any of those agreeing with the OP's nonsense realizes that despite massive injuries, the worst rushing season we have had and one of the worse defensive seasons that we were in playoff contention?

Good post, BZ. In the history of CZ, I'm pretty sure I've never said that.

 

[blindzebra]

Good post, BZ. In the history of CZ, I'm pretty sure I've never said that.

Need an edit to add it made me agree with McCoy.

 

[Shango]

Wow, so much is wrong with this thread.

First, we are not at either end of that question. So the point of the thread has no merit.

Second, Romo's contract is not hurting us this year or beyond. We have money we can roll into next year plus the 5 million a season Mara stole from us returns.

Yes, we have questions but it is very unlikely that we will have the injuries that hit us last year.

Finally I do wonder if any of those agreeing with the OP's nonsense realizes that despite massive injuries, the worst rushing season we have had and one of the worse defensive seasons that we were in playoff contention?

Need an edit to add it made me agree with McCoy.

I "think" you need to read it again. Before you agree with him...he's been trolling me for years now...spewing nonsense....and hate.

1. It's complete opinion whether we are on either end on that spectrum but it IS the fundamental difference between the fans that are trying to make some sense of this situation vs those that....um...just wanna argue about Romo.(McCoy) Either you believe you can do it with an elite QB or you think a complete team is the most important thing...that's the TRUE separation right now between knowledgable fans.

2. Didn't mention Romo's contract nor his skills set so this would not become another "Romo thread". Romo is not the question here at all...it's team structure.

3. There's my point again. "Yes, we have questions but it is very unlikely that we will have the injuries that hit us last year." Again, that is hope and opinion. The truth is that good "complete" teams are built to withstand injuries...for example...The Ravens. They were built so well that when they lost Ladarious Webb, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, and Terrell Suggs...they overcame. That is what we ultimately want. To wilt and say it was all because of the injures...is weak...even if it's true.

 

[blindzebra]

I "think" you need to read it again. Before you agree with him...he's been trolling me for years now...spewing nonsense....and hate.

1. It's complete opinion whether we are on either end on that spectrum but it IS the fundamental difference between the fans that are trying to make some sense of this situation vs those that....um...just wanna argue about Romo.(McCoy) Either you believe you can do it with an elite QB or you think a complete team is the most important thing...that's the TRUE separation right now between knowledgable fans.

2. Didn't mention Romo's contract nor his skills set so this would not become another "Romo thread". Romo is not the question here at all...it's team structure.

3. There's my point again. "Yes, we have questions but it is very unlikely that we will have the injuries that hit us last year." Again, that is hope and opinion. The truth is that good "complete" teams are built to withstand injuries...for example...The Ravens. They were built so well that when they lost Ladarious Webb, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, and Terrell Suggs...they overcame. That is what we ultimately want. To wilt and say it was all because of the injures...is weak...even if it's true.

LOL they went in the toilet when those players were out. Suggs came back and they went on a run.

 

[Shango]

LOL they went in the toilet when those players were out. Suggs came back and they went on a run.

Wow...they went 9-4 after their week 8 bye...and Suggs never topped 4 tackles in a game and had a whopping 2 sacks for the remainder of the reg season.

Had a great gave vs Den in the playoffs but far from dominate in the other games.

...1 tackle and 1 assist in the Super Bowl.

Wow...just wow
I kinda like to see the people that I can't connect with...sooner or later I figure out why. :laugh1:

 

[Shango]

But drafting and FA can't yield an all-pro at every position. A lot of teams win Superbowls with a lot more average starters than an average starting QB, it is not a black and white issue.

I saw someone confused this for "wanting an all-pro at every position"

I don't think that's what we want.

A team with a ton of All-Pros can still be bad...ask an eagles fan.

What we want is a cohesive unit on both sides of the ball. We don't want to just "Get good players that are avail for cheap", we want to find players through the draft and FA that fit perfectly into what we want to do on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. I honestly think Garrett is trying to do this...I've seen it clearly. But Garrett also has to work around a boss that wants his way too...So we'll see from here on out...how it pans out

 

[Clove]

I think we have a difference of opinion on what ELITE is. To me, elite is a QB with not only talent and smarts, but a player who is not bothered by the big stage. Someone who, no matter what's going on around him, he has that IT to pull a game out.

He's not bothered by what the defense is doing, or what the offensive line is doing, or any of those things, he simply finds a way. Those types of QBs don't grow on trees. Very few of them come around ever decade, and to me Tony is a notch below those types.

He can do everything in the world, but win pressure games. It's not in him. It's not what he's made of. His games in October are totally different from a late deciding game in December or the playoffs. Who cares what your stats are if you can't win important stuff?

What's important? Playoffs. Super Bowls. Anything else is bull crap. I don't care if Tony threw for 7500 yards and 63 touch downs with only 2 interceptions, if he makes it to the playoffs that year and lose, NO MATTER WHAT, he sucks IMO.

I guess winning means more to me than anything. I care about the bottom line, winning. And you cannot call someone ELITE if they freeze in big games.

You can't call someone elite who can NEVER win those do or die games. In 7 years, you should rack up at least a ton of playoff games. I've never heard that term team sport until Romo came along. Never heard it with Roger, or Aikman, or any other QB out there.

Romo fans = excuse makers.