ESPN: Four Cowboys on decade's 25 most overrated players

[Everlastingxxx]

You must love the attention you get to get kicked in the teeth by just about everyone around.

Newman is a top corner. You are wrong and are too afraid to admit it. That is pathetic and your problem.

And what exactly did i say that would warrant it? Nothing i said was out of line. Many here think Newman is an elite corner. I don’t. I think he is a good/very good corner. How can you prove underrated/overrated? By stats? By what standard are you using??? It is an opinion. But because you guys are like children and have such massive egos you need to prove some dumb point. They spend hours copy and pasting stats they find and look for the first chance to use them. Yea, very impressive.

I love the Cowboys, so what are they trying to prove to me and others? How big and bad you are with stats? Wow congrats! Whos opinion was changed? Not mine. I have been here a long time and i see the same crap. These big bad posters come out, flash thier mighty wit and scare the crap out of others to keep them in line. Bring it, i will express my opinion without fear!

I said Newman was beaten like a rage doll vs the Skins in the first game...he was. He gave up a game changing catch against the Steelers...Wade said the same thing. I said he gave up on the tackle in the last Ravens run...he did, rewatch it. I was not wrong on any of those accounts. But hey, whatever “ownage” you guys want to spout. Childish stuff.

And because i don’t fear bullies...i also think Romo is overrated.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

And what exactly did i say that would warrant it? Nothing i said was out of line. Many here think Newman is an elite corner. I don’t. I think he is a good/very good corner. How can you prove underrated/overrated? By stats? By what standard are you using??? It is an opinion. But because you guys are like children and have such massive egos you need to prove some dumb point. They spend hours copy and pasting stats they find and look for the first chance to use them. Yea, very impressive.

I love the Cowboys, so what are they trying to prove to me and others? How big and bad you are with stats? Wow congrats! Whos opinion was changed? Not mine. I have been here a long time and i see the same crap. These big bad posters come out, flash thier mighty wit and scare the crap out of others to keep them in line. Bring it, i will express my opinion without fear!

I said Newman was beaten like a rage doll vs the Skins in the first game...he was. He gave up a game changing catch against the Steelers...Wade said the same thing. I said he gave up on the tackle in the last Ravens run...he did, rewatch it. I was not wrong on any of those accounts. But hey, whatever “ownage” you guys want to spout. Childish stuff.

And because i don’t fear bullies...i also think Romo is overrated.

Good post. You are saying what nobody wants to hear, of course you will get hated on.

 

[28 Joker]

I did say something nice about Newman, i said he was good corner. But whatever makes you feel like you accomplished something today.

And i don’t know why you would feel you were alone. Newman much like 31 Roy Williams and Tony Romo are heavily protected here. You can’t say one word against them without getting tons of insults. It doesn’t bother me. It has less to do with the Dallas Cowboys and more to do with their own egos.

You did, but we clash on whether Newman is an elite player and the nature of the CB position, I think.

You have the right to voice your opinion for sure. You made the debate better, because you opened the door for the topic to expand. Anthony Henry got into the debate, the nature of the CB position, other top CBs' performance, ect...

When I'm building an argument and defending a position, I can get a little feisty.

I think I told you to not let facts get in the way one time.

That was a little frustration on my part.

I apologize for that statement.

I'm not trying to intimidate anyone.

I'm just defending a top 5 CB whom gets very little respect or recognition in the media.

Articles like this one fire me up, because it's just not true.

Furthermore, if people challenge me and I think I'm holding the cards, I'm going to play them. It's just a message board, but Newman is my favorite player. I make no bones about it. If this is the only way I can pay him back for playing his tail of every Sunday, then I will be glad to do it.

I listed all the people who defended Newman. I did that to show my appreciation towards them, and I certainly wasn't motivated by showing anyone up. I did that out of respect to them.

Even, Matt Mosley agrees that Newman isn't overrated.

 

[Idgit]

And what exactly did i say that would warrant it? Nothing i said was out of line. Many here think Newman is an elite corner. I don’t. I think he is a good/very good corner. How can you prove underrated/overrated? By stats? By what standard are you using??? It is an opinion. But because you guys are like children and have such massive egos you need to prove some dumb point. They spend hours copy and pasting stats they find and look for the first chance to use them. Yea, very impressive.

I love the Cowboys, so what are they trying to prove to me and others? How big and bad you are with stats? Wow congrats! Whos opinion was changed? Not mine. I have been here a long time and i see the same crap. These big bad posters come out, flash thier mighty wit and scare the crap out of others to keep them in line. Bring it, i will express my opinion without fear!

I said Newman was beaten like a rage doll vs the Skins in the first game...he was. He gave up a game changing catch against the Steelers...Wade said the same thing. I said he gave up on the tackle in the last Ravens run...he did, rewatch it. I was not wrong on any of those accounts. But hey, whatever “ownage” you guys want to spout. Childish stuff.

And because i don’t fear bullies...i also think Romo is overrated.

Everlast, I hope it's clear that nobody here is hammering you for standing up for your opinions. You're getting hammered because your opinions are wrong. And not just subjectively wrong.

The reaction you get for slamming Newman for the game he played with the groin injury is good example of this. It's just a silly point to make to defend an entrenched position.

I really don't blame you for getting irked for being told your opinions are meaningless. That's a normal reaction. The easiest solution is to do the work that it takes to have meaningful opinions. You do that, and you stick to your guns, and I think you'd have a very different experience in these threads.

 

[28 Joker]

Completely agree. Newman is top 50. I forgot to mention earlier, but how is someone UNDERrated if he's only been to ONE pro bowl. If anything, he is almost the Darren Woodson of the 00 Cowboys, not enough respect/recognition for his importance to the team. But he needs to make more plays IMO. Top 5 corners have to make more plays.

And the Cowboy have had some great corners in their long history, not sure if Newman makes my top TWO. Top 5 or 6 for me.

1. Mel Renfro
2. Deion Sanders
3. Cornell Green
4. Everson Walls
5. Terrence Newman / Kevin Smith




Season hasn't started yet, and the injury bug could change things, but I do not expect Sidbury to make any impact his rook season (likely not for a few years even). But I am somewhat vindicated since he slipped way below where many fans projected him. Not saying that the kid cannot put it together one day, but he was not just soft against the run, he only had like TWO pass rush moves. Veikune is not only the more physical player, he was the more complete & more versatile player, that was obvious, at least to the teams picking anyway. But thanks for the kudos!

That is a great signature, by the way.


I think Deion Sanders and Terence Newman are the two best CBs in Cowboys history.

I think speed kills, and these two guys are the fastest players on that list. Newman's slot play has been second to none since Parcells put him in there. I can leave Deion on the edge, take away half the field, and move Newman between LCB and the slot. I could man up with anyone.

They can cover players like Terrell Owens, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Santana Moss, Andre Johnson, Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Tory Holt, Jeremy Shockey, Tony Gonzalez, Plaxico Burress, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Santonio Holmes, Lee Evans, Roy Williams, Jason Witten, Chad Johnson, Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Antonio Gates, ect...

Newman thrives in tight man coverage and has elite speed (4.35 lowest combine time). He has shut down or negated some of the best WRs and TEs in a wide open, spread era where the ball is constantly in the air. Plus, the rules are geared towards the offense. The NFL has been a passing league like no other time in history.

Sanders needs no defending. Everyone knows what he did. He got his due for good reason.

I just don't think guys like Everson Walls or Mel Renfro or Cornell Green could cover the size and speed that exists today if they had to play man coverage.

I saw Walls play, and I know he's not better than Newman.

I'd rank Newman ahead of Kevin Smith, too.

I saw Keven Smith play many times. It was a shame he got hurt. It made you sick, really. He was a real good one for sure, but, imo, Newman is the more talented, better player.

I'd put Smith third and make him my nickel back. Anyone who takes care of Jerry Rice in playoff games is worthy of the third spot.

I know of Mel Renfro, but I never saw him play, same for Cornell Green.

 

[texbumthelife]

No way Brooking even sniffs this list if he isn't a Cowboys. Come on ESPN, disguise the hate a little better next time.

 

[28 Joker]

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...omugha-and-debunking-the-single-issue-theory/

This is a very good article that K.C. Joyner wrote in, gulp, the New York Times. I was doing some digging. It is called "No-Hype Review: Nnamdi Asomugha and Debunking the Single Issue Theory".

Joyner attacks the flaws of annointing a CB based on one single issue or statistic. The article was written in November of 2008, so the season wasn't over.

In it, he will tell you that teams didn't avoid Champ Bailey during his outstanding 2006 season, the season Bailey put up a 4.7 YPA. Teams threw at Bailey 65 times.

That is more attempts than Terence Newman received in 2007 (58).

Joyner compares Asomugha's 2007 season with Terence Newman's and Will Allen's 2007 season and favors Newman and Allen and defends his logic. Here is the 2007 data/YPA break down for the two players talked about in this thread:

Asomugha (277 yards/35 attempts; 7.0 YPA)

Newman (352 yards/58 attempts, 6.1 YPA)

Newman and Allen were Dr. Z's (SI.com) two All-Pro CBs in 2007.

In the article, Joyner points to how Asomugha's attempts or targets were the lowest total for a CB that season. However, he points to the chunks of yards Asomugha gave up on fewer attempts and contrasts it with the yard total Newman gave up on 23 more attempts. He favors the performance of Newman and Allen in the analysis.

Furthermore, he talks about the Raiders very poor run defense in 2007 and 2008. He mentions DeAngelo Hall's 8.6 YPA for the Raiders (in 2008) and his 39.3% success rate, the two guys playing beside Asomugha in 2007 (Stanford Routt: 8.6 YPA 36.4% success rate and Fabian Washington: 9.2 YPA 40% success rate), ect...

The 2006 version of Anthony Henry (6.7 YPA; 20th ranked YPA) was much better than any of those guys. Yet, Henry is still targeted an NFL leading 100+ times while teams avoid Newman.

The media makes these guys (Bailey, Samuel, Asomugha) out to be invincible or the clear cut best. Many in the media put up a huge imaginary gap between them and a certain other CB who plays in Dallas or some other CBs.

K.C. Joyner exposes them, so enjoy.

 

[burmafrd]

I have nothing against opinions. BUT when they are so clearly wrong and proven so anyone who keeps making the same post needs to get worked over. The evidence has been collected and shown several times and yet everlasting refuses to admit it. He is so arrogant that he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong DESPITE the evidence. THAT deserves getting cut off at the knees.

ANd getting owned in the Commander game is about as pathetic as it gets. Short little passes. That is getting owned. Besides one other of course- ni guess in Everlasting's mind one long pass is getting owned.

 

[TNCowboy]

:laugh2: You people kill me.

Demarcus Ware is the best defensive player in the league.

Terence Newman is a top CB, and some guy on the interwebs unofficial stats prove it.

Roy Williams was an elite safety (that mantle was carried around here for years; complete with meaningless stats, some of which were phony).

Brady James is or is nearing pro bowl status as a LBer, what with all the sacks he got.

Jay Ratliff is an elite nose tackle.

Greg Ellis was a stalwart veteran who's still a solid pass rusher.

Yet this is the same defense that let a woeful Baltimore offense run all over them. The same guys who didn't show up in Philly. They should change the name of the site to extremecowboys.

 

[Everlastingxxx]

I have nothing against opinions. BUT when they are so clearly wrong and proven so anyone who keeps making the same post needs to get worked over. The evidence has been collected and shown several times and yet everlasting refuses to admit it. He is so arrogant that he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong DESPITE the evidence. THAT deserves getting cut off at the knees.

ANd getting owned in the Commander game is about as pathetic as it gets. Short little passes. That is getting owned. Besides one other of course- ni guess in Everlasting's mind one long pass is getting owned.

I am arrogant and i do think i am right all the time, just ask my wife. Although i just don’t see how you can prove over/underrated. If i said Santa Claus is overrated...how are you going to prove me wrong? Provide stats of happy children and the stock markets value of Mattel? It’s dumb. If you go to extremeskins, they overrate their players and we underrate theirs, right?

You also see an example of 41gy saying Newman is a top 2 corner all time Cowboys. What facts to prove it? Any Super Bowl rings? Any playoff wins? Only 1 Pro Bowl? Those facts don’t matter? Larry Brown has a Super Bowl MVP. Kevin Smith shut down Jerry Rice, greatest WR of all time. What about Everson Walls?

I’d love to see Newman bait QBs, be more aggressive. Give me some punt returns like Sanders did for many years. Do more of what he did against the Jets, pick6. Stay healthy and make impact plays, thats what elite players do.

 

[dfense]

Ok... other then 04 Newman has been outstanding

I think he's spot on with his description. Newman hasn't been the guy yet. Real close but always nicked up.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

doesn't seem fair that a mutt like Brookings is grouped with a dynamo like Newman. the two are light-years away from each other as far as . . . everything. Yes, we are talking about "overrated" players, but it is like finding Lombardini and Campo on the same list . . . . insulting.

 

[viman96]

No way Brooking even sniffs this list if he isn't a Cowboys. Come on ESPN, disguise the hate a little better next time.

He should not be on the list as a member of the Cowboys. Or if he is then RW should not be on the list as a member of the Cowboys. This really irks me

 

[burmafrd]

everlasting is another BSPN "fan" that somehow equals big plays with shutting down receivers. Tnew has proven the capeability to shut down one on one virtually any WR in the NFL. Those who think BSPN highlights mean something or this BS about baiting QBs are totally lost. TOP QBs eat that sort of thing up. Real CBs know how that can backfire.

You just do not get it: TNew plays the game the old fashioned way= he just gets the job done. He believes that the NUMBER ONE RESPONSIBILITY of a CB is to PREVENT CATCHES. Not appear in highlights. Nor run one back while allowing three.

 

[28 Joker]

Ok... other then 04 Newman has been outstanding

Yeah. 2004 was the first time Newman had significantly struggled, because he was outstanding in 2003 as a rookie, too. Newman battled through a banged up knee and had only one good player playing with him, Roy Williams, in the secondary that year. The other CB spot, the nickel spot, and the other safety spot was in complete disarray.

In 2004, even with tough or bad games against Minnesota, Washington, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Seattle, Newman was able to battle back and finish the season strong. According to Joyner, Newman gave up 6 TDs in these games.

Newman's strong games came against Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago, Philadelphia, and the New York Giants. He didn't give up a TD in these games. These were his shut down games. Plus, there are 6 games left that Joyner didn't comment on and they must have been good because despite the 5 tough games, Newman was able to put up these stats according to Joyner:

In 2004, Newman had the 8th best completion % and tied for the 8th best YPA (5.8).

After the Seattle game, Bill Parcells helped Newman get his confidence back.

He told the second year player (player) this:

"Look, you play best when you play tight. When you play soft, you get beat. Go back to playing tight and stop worrying about if you're going to have help over the top. If you get beat deep because of that, you'll never hear me say a word".

Bill Parcells

Newman can play excellent off or tight now. (He was struggling when playing off in 2004.) Ex.. See Phillps having him press and play off of Plaxico Burress (to keep Burress off balance) in the 2007 game at NY, a game where Newman was the key factor in holding Burress to a 1-5-0 day.

Newman was able to put those first true significant struggles behind him and forget them, as all top level CBs must be able to do.

Hats off to Bill Parcells for protecting Newman and hats off to the Aaron Glenn signing. Glenn's 2005 YPA was under 6.0, and he was a great role model for Newman.

That 2004 season was the only year where Newman had any real, significant struggles when you consider the 5 tough or bad games, and he still battled and put up a 5.8 YPA, tied for 8th in the NFL according to Joyner.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Yeah. 2004 was the first time Newman had significantly struggled, because he was outstanding in 2003 as a rookie, too. Newman battled through a banged up knee and had only one good player playing with him, Roy Williams, in the secondary that year. The other CB spot, the nickel spot, and the other safety spot was in complete disarray.

In 2004, even with tough or bad games against Minnesota, Washington, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, and Seattle, Newman was able to battle back and finish the season strong. According to Joyner, Newman gave up 6 TDs in these games.

Newman's strong games came against Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago, Philadelphia, and the New York Giants. He didn't give up a TD in these games. These were his shut down games. Plus, there are 6 games left that Joyner didn't comment on and they must have been good because despite the 5 tough games, Newman was able to put up these stats according to Joyner:

In 2004, Newman had the 8th best completion % and tied for the 8th best YPA (5.8).

After the Seattle game, Bill Parcells helped Newman get his confidence back.

He told the second year player (player) this:

"Look, you play best when you play tight. When you play soft, you get beat. Go back to playing tight and stop worrying about if you're going to have help over the top. If you get beat deep because of that, you'll never hear me say a word".

Bill Parcells

Newman can play excellent off or tight now. (He was struggling when playing off in 2004.) Ex.. See Phillps having him press and play off of Plaxico Burress (to keep Burress off balance) in the 2007 game at NY, a game where Newman was the key factor in holding Burress to a 1-5-0 day.

Newman was able to put those first true significant struggles behind him and forget them, as all top level CBs must be able to do.

Hats off to Bill Parcells for protecting Newman and hats off to the Aaron Glenn signing. Glenn's 2005 YPA was under 6.0, and he was a great role model for Newman.

That 2004 season was the only year where Newman had any real, significant struggles when you consider the 5 tough or bad games, and he still battled and put up a 5.8 YPA, tied for 8th in the NFL according to Joyner.

For the life of me, I will never understand why we let Glenn walk and hung on to Reeves. Glenn got picked up for the vet minimum and we watched Reeves blow our chances 10 yards at a time.

 

[BAT]

That is a great signature, by the way.

Thank yah, thank yah vera much. Wish I was more graphics savvy so I could have really done it up right though.

I think Deion Sanders and Terence Newman are the two best CBs in Cowboys history.

I think speed kills, and these two guys are the fastest players on that list. Newman's slot play has been second to none since Parcells put him in there. I can leave Deion on the edge, take away half the field, and move Newman between LCB and the slot. I could man up with anyone.

I agree that speed does kill, but production is the ultimate killer. Only Deion of your top 2 has been to the big game, only Deion has been a playmaker. Newman plays for one of the best Ds in the game currently, and his teams still have not sniffed a playoff win. Newman is steady and can even be lockdown, but he has yet to become a playmaker, or importantly, win.

Everyone on my list, including Kevin Smith, have had produced on the BIG STAGE (ie playoff wins & championship games, career defining plays), and they did it early and often.

As good as Newman is, he has yet to have that career defining game. Even Kevin Smith who had a very short peak (still helped win 2 Lombardis in that time) manhandled the greatest WR who ever played the game. I have never seen Rice react to a corner like he did Pup, even against the supposed greatest corner ever, Deion Sanders.

Newman thrives in tight man coverage and has elite speed (4.35 lowest combine time). He has shut down or negated some of the best WRs and TEs in a wide open, spread era where the ball is constantly in the air. Plus, the rules are geared towards the offense. The NFL has been a passing league like no other time in history..

Speed, and steady play, is not indicative of greatness IMO. Newman is good, but he needs to do more to be great. Everson Walls was no where near the athlete that Newman is, but he did more in his first 5 years than Newman has done his entire career. Everson Walls did get burnt, (especially toward the end of his career), but he was a playmaker-one who lead the league in interceptions THREE times. He not only garnered 4 pro bowls (this during the era of Darrell Green, the fastest player in the NFL until Deion's arrival), he also helped his team challenge for championships (one ring). Walls may have been slow, but QBs hated throwing it to his side he was a human INT machine. Even in this prolific passing era (his era was not grind it out football of the 40's & 50's fyi), Walls would have been a heck of a deep safety. If Henry can play corner today, I think Walls could too (he hasn't been out of the league that long).

I just don't think guys like Everson Walls or Mel Renfro or Cornell Green could cover the size and speed that exists today if they had to play man coverage..

Like I said, even w/his limited speed, Walls could play today IMO. As for Renfro and Green, it is obvious you did not watch them play. Renfro was fast, tough, versatile and smart. He was very likely the Cowboys FIRST shut down corner. And Green was not only uber-athletic, but he was BIG (he was 6'4) as well as versatile. Like Renfro, he made the pro bowl at both the corner and safety position, multiple times. I don't know what their 40 times were, but neither Renfro or Green were slow.

I saw Walls play, and I know he's not better than Newman.

I'd rank Newman ahead of Kevin Smith, too.

I saw Keven Smith play many times. It was a shame he got hurt. It made you sick, really. He was a real good one for sure, but, imo, Newman is the more talented, better player.

I'd put Smith third and make him my nickel back. Anyone who takes care of Jerry Rice in playoff games is worthy of the third spot.

I know of Mel Renfro, but I never saw him play, same for Cornell Green.

IMO, talent/speed/athleticism does not automatically equal great player. There are a LOT of super fast players, not all are great. Greatness is earned thru great deeds. And winning. You really need to watch film of Renfro and Green. Especially Renfro. He probably plays the closest to your fave, Newman, except he was more dynamic and more importantly, he WON. Green was just a monster, very underrated IMO. And you might want to also watch some of Walls' games prior to "The Catch". Outside of that catch, Walls was clutch in the playoffs. He still holds the Cowboys records for INTs in a career, never mind in a single season.

 

[28 Joker]

For the life of me, I will never understand why we let Glenn walk and hung on to Reeves. Glenn got picked up for the vet minimum and we watched Reeves blow our chances 10 yards at a time.

Yeah. That was a gutsy move for sure. I guess the coaches thought Glenn had lost a step when they watched him. Glenn kind of faded away after Dallas let him go late in his career.

I wish the coaches would have seen Anthony Henry lose a step in 2007 and they I wish they would have kept starting Jenkins in 2008 because Henry had lost two steps by that point. He couldn't cover the post at all last year, and he couldn't cover the post, in the first game of 2007, when Burress left him way behind. I think the Cowboys were fooled in 2007 because of the time Henry missed and he played significant snaps as a dime safety.

That 2007 playoff game, where Toomer really put it on Henry, should have been enough evidence for them.

Also, I think the Cowboys probably cost themselves a playoff spot when they didn't put Newman on Moss in that 2005 game, after Moss scored the first one. They should have backed their safeties up a little, put Newman on Moss, and put the safety over the top. You just can't let that happen twice. Dalllas never adjusted.

 

[28 Joker]

Thank yah, thank yah vera much. Wish I was more graphics savvy so I could have really done it up right though.



I agree that speed does kill, but production is the ultimate killer. Only Deion of your top 2 has been to the big game, only Deion has been a playmaker. Newman plays for one of the best Ds in the game currently, and his teams still have not sniffed a playoff win. Newman is steady and can even be lockdown, but he has yet to become a playmaker, or importantly, win.

Everyone on my list, including Kevin Smith, have had produced on the BIG STAGE (ie playoff wins & championship games, career defining plays), and they did it early and often.

As good as Newman is, he has yet to have that career defining game. Even Kevin Smith who had a very short peak (still helped win 2 Lombardis in that time) manhandled the greatest WR who ever played the game. I have never seen Rice react to a corner like he did Pup, even against the supposed greatest corner ever, Deion Sanders.



Speed, and steady play, is not indicative of greatness IMO. Newman is good, but he needs to do more to be great. Everson Walls was no where near the athlete that Newman is, but he did more in his first 5 years than Newman has done his entire career. Everson Walls did get burnt, (especially toward the end of his career), but he was a playmaker-one who lead the league in interceptions THREE times. He not only garnered 4 pro bowls (this during the era of Darrell Green, the fastest player in the NFL until Deion's arrival), he also helped his team challenge for championships (one ring). Walls may have been slow, but QBs hated throwing it to his side he was a human INT machine. Even in this prolific passing era (his era was not grind it out football of the 40's & 50's fyi), Walls would have been a heck of a deep safety. If Henry can play corner today, I think Walls could too (he hasn't been out of the league that long).



Like I said, even w/his limited speed, Walls could play today IMO. As for Renfro and Green, it is obvious you did not watch them play. Renfro was fast, tough, versatile and smart. He was very likely the Cowboys FIRST shut down corner. And Green was not only uber-athletic, but he was BIG (he was 6'4) as well as versatile. Like Renfro, he made the pro bowl at both the corner and safety position, multiple times. I don't know what their 40 times were, but neither Renfro or Green were slow.



IMO, talent/speed/athleticism does not automatically equal great player. There are a LOT of super fast players, not all are great. Greatness is earned thru great deeds. And winning. You really need to watch film of Renfro and Green. Especially Renfro. He probably plays the closest to your fave, Newman, except he was more dynamic and more importantly, he WON. Green was just a monster, very underrated IMO. And you might want to also watch some of Walls' games prior to "The Catch". Outside of that catch, Walls was clutch in the playoffs. He still holds the Cowboys records for INTs in a career, never mind in a single season.

Bat,

Deion Sanders didn't win anything until he went to the two best teams in the NFL. You can't put Dallas' lack of playoff success on Terence Newman. It isn't his fault that Eli Manning didn't even bother to throw the football at him in the playoff game. Newman tipped a ball to Roy Williams in the 2006 playoff game and caused a turnover. Newman does have production and plenty of it. His performance over his six years in Dallas has been outstanding. It's been documented in this thread, so I'm glad Alexander put this up here, because it was just one more opportunity to expose the people that don't understand his production or performance or will not acknowledge it or his value.

Newman can influence the outcome of a football game and not get an interception. When Newman locked down Steve Smith, twice, he didn't have a pick. However, Steve Smith's production was negated, and Carolina lost, twice. Deion could do that, too. Both players could/can take you out of the game or lock you down.

Newman does have 20 interceptions, and he keeps points off the scoreboard without even touching the football, due to his outstanding coverage skills. Teams have avoided him, and when they have targeted him, they have paid. It isn't Newman's fault that the NFL threw the football 100+ times at Anthony Henry in 2006. Plus, Henry's 6.7 YPA was very good. Henry was a good player in 2006 and 2005 when healthy.

Newman has made WRs like Terrell Owens and Steve Smith disappear. That's pretty defining to me. Plus, he's got a whole lot of football left to be played. Newman has lined up against the best WRs and TEs in the NFL, and he has consistently won those battles on the edge and on the inside or slot. The slot is the toughest place to play, because you have to defend the entire football field. Deion hated crossing routes, because it took him away from the sidelines where he lived.

In 1995, while Deion was next to the sidelines, Jerry Rice went into the slot and burned Dallas for an easy TD. Newman could take Rice. I'm fully confident in that.

Kevin Smlth was drafted in 1992, and he was drafted by a dynasty. Newman was the first draft pick on a three time 5-11 team. Newman didn't have Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith on his offense. He didn't have a legit threat at QB until 2006 (Tony Romo). You can't hold lack of playoff success against Newman. Players go into the Hall of Fame and never win championships. Their play gets recognized.

Everson Walls was drafted by a talented/playoff team, and Dwight Clark is still open by the way. Walls had three picks in that game, but he didn't stop Dwight Clark from putting an end to Dallas' Super Bowl years. Walls was good, but if you put him up against Randy Moss in man coverage, it's going to get ugly. Newman has taken Moss on deep post routes, with Tom Brady pulling the trigger, and lived to tell about it. Plus, he ran Moss down from behind in 2005 after someone else got beat.

CB isn't all about interceptions. That's just one key factor. Newman has good ball skills according to NFL scouts and NFL personnel people, and he thrives in man coverge. Ronde Barber, a multiple time Pro Bowler, has 19 interceptions since 2003. Newman has 20. Newman just hasn't had the 8-10 INT year, yet.

However, he's quite capable of getting one year like that if teams are forced to target him out of desperation. We saw some of that during his last 7 games when he took the other team's best guy all over the football field. Newman had 4 picks in 7 games. Even the deep throw to Holmes was a play of desperation, and the Steelers got lucky.

Everson Walls had his Pro Bowls, and Terence Newman had two taken away from him and given to an over hyped player, DeAngelo Hall. Plus, I can make a strong case for Newman being a Pro Bowler in 2003, his rookiie year. I was really young, but I did watch Walls play. I had his football cards along with everyone else. I know he was a good player.

Walls could probably play today, but he's no where near the player Terence Newman is or has been. I can play Newman in two positions and put him on Terrell Owens or Steve Smith and shut them down.

Newman has played outstanding or exceptional with the worst FS (see 2004, 2005, & 2006) play in the entire NFL. Dallas' SS position was real weak last year, too. Newman has played the bulk of his career without a stong cover safety. I would like to see Kevin Smith, Walls, or Renfro do that. I wonder how they would have done. They better be fast, real fast and real quick.

I don't know much about Mel Renfro or Green, but I do know Renfro was really good. I believe what you are saying about them.

However, if I'm going to have to pick someone to go out and cover Steve Smith or Terrell Owens (in his prime) all over the football field, I'm taking the guy who I know can do it, because I've seen him shut them down, twice.

Newman does have elite speed, agility, quickness, and athleticism, but he also has plenty of skins on the wall to prove his worth. His resume is easy to defend.

Again, if Newman is fortunate enough to stay healthy (like any football player), he will continue to play at a very, very high level (a blue-chip level) well into his 30s. He's built for it. He has the body and skill set and skills. Perhaps, he will get his big playoff pick or picks in the coming years.

However, you can't hold the lack of playoff success against Newman when you compare him to the other Cowboys greats at CB. It should be a comparison of skills, skill level, and performance. Newman can go head to head with all of them, including Sanders.

Newman's performance during his 6 years in Dallas has been outstanding. He can hold his head up high.

You are right. Darren Woodson and Terence Newman are two of the most underrated players in Cowboys history. I think Newman is the most underrated. Woodson played in some huge shadows. People just don't understand the nature of the position and how the game has changed, even since Sanders played.

 

[BAT]

I really enjoy our dialogues 41gy, and for the record, I am not a Newman basher. I like him as a player. I just feel he needs to perform better in big games for him to get to the next level, to become a great player. That said, I still listed him in my top 5 all time great Cowboy corners. Just not top 2.


We are just going to have to agree to disagree b/c I do not think covering TO (or Steve Smith) as the be all and end all. And while he is excellent covering the slot, it is not enough. IMO, Newman is steady, not spectacular. He needs to put the team on his back and win the big games. The great ones do that.


Walls, Pup, Renfro, Green, Deion and Newman all have at least one important thing in common. Every single one of them played for a championship caliber team.

*Renfro & Green were on the original Doomsday. With an offense consisting of Meredith (then Morten) at QB, Perkins at RB, Hayes at WR.

*Walls played w/Doomsday II. On offense he had the likes of Staubach (then Danny White), Dorsett, Drew Pearson, Rayfield Wright, Tony Hill.

*Pup played on the 90's dynasty teams (D was ranked 1st more times than any other Cowboys' defense). On offense he had the Triplets (Aikman, Emmitt & Irvin).

*Newman is playing w/the best pass rushing defense in the league. The offense is the most prolific (in single season yards AND scoring) in Cowboys' history. Newman is on the team that sent the most Cowboys to a pro bowl in a single season.


As one of the best players on his defense, IMO Newman needs to step up. Its on his shoulders (just like it is on Ware's, Rat's & James'). Up to now he's been good, he need to take it another level if he wants to be great. Again, just my opinion.