First impressive Jaylon video

[KJJ]

The first impressive video of Smith will be when he's on the field in pads making some plays. It's been over a year since his injury and he's still rehabbing and doing drills. For me to get excited and have some optimism I need to see him make some football plays. They've shown players coming back from serious injuries, looking good in drills but once they get on the field it's not there. The jury will be out on Smith until he puts the pads on, if he ever does and makes some plays on the field.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

The first impressive video of Smith will be when he's on the field in pads making some plays. It's been over a year since his injury and he's still rehabbing and doing drills. For me to get excited and have some optimism I need to see him make some football plays.

Fair point. But he can't make plays on the field until there is football to be played. Off-season discussion is necessarily speculative, and rehab progress isn't meaningless. If we carry your point to it's logical conclusion, we can't even speculate about what our upcoming draft class might accomplish.

 

[KJJ]

Fair point. But he can't make plays on the field until there is football to be played. Off-season discussion is necessarily speculative, and rehab progress isn't meaningless. If we carry your point to it's logical conclusion, we can't even speculate about what our upcoming draft class might accomplish.

There was talk at least from Jerry that Smith might be able to play at the end of this past season and that didn't happen. Here we are in Feb and he's still doing drills and rehabbing. There's been a number of conflicting reports posted on the board over the past few months. There's been encouraging reports and some that are concerning. Looking good in drills and being able to do what's necessary to make plays on the field are two different things. The 49ers drafted Marcus Lattimore who was a very highly rated RB that suffered a serious knee injury in college. He was redshirted his first year and reports were he was looking good in drills but he ended up never playing a down for SF and retired. Smith was a top 5 talent and not one team took a chance in the first round due to his injury which points to the level of doubt that teams had about him ever returning to form. We're talking nerve damage with his situation.

The only highly rated college player that I can think of that fell in the draft due to a serious injury that ever returned to become a solid NFL player was Willis Magahee. Many here spent 2 years getting all worked up over Matt Johnson who never played a down for the Cowboys. If and when Smith sees the field with pads on ready to play football, that's when we're going to find out if there's a chance he can return to form. I'm not going to make the mistake many here are making by looking at his college tape prior to his injury, thinking that's the player we're going to get once he finishes rehabbing. He's still has a long journey ahead of him to come back from that injury and be the player he was. He's already had one full season of development wasted rehabbing an injury. It's not just about getting him on the field but having him return to being an excellent player. That's going to remain a big question until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is.

 

[JoeKing]

There was talk at least from Jerry that Smith might be able to play at the end of this past season and that didn't happen. Here we are in Feb and he's still doing drills and rehabbing. There's been a number of conflicting reports posted on the board over the past few months. There's been encouraging reports and some that are concerning. Looking good in drills and being able to do what's necessary to make plays on the field are two different things. The 49ers drafted Marcus Lattimore who was a very highly rated RB that suffered a serious knee injury in college. He was redshirted his first year and reports were he was looking good in drills but he ended up never playing a down for SF and retired. Smith was a top 5 talent and not one team took a chance in the first round due to his injury which points to the level of doubt that teams had about him ever returning to form. We're talking nerve damage with his situation.

The only highly rated college player that I can think of that fell in the draft due to a serious injury that ever returned to become a solid NFL player was Willis Magahee. Many here spent 2 years getting all worked up over Matt Johnson who never played a down for the Cowboys. If and when Smith sees the field with pads on ready to play football, that's when we're going to find out if there's a chance he can return to form. I'm not going to make the mistake many here are making by looking at his college tape prior to his injury, thinking that's the player we're going to get once he finishes rehabbing. He's still has a long journey ahead of him to come back from that injury and be the player he was. He's already had one full season of development wasted rehabbing an injury. It's not just about getting him on the field but having him return to being an excellent player. That's going to remain a big question until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is.

Buzz kill, you did it again.

 

[jobberone]

Two have been benched. Either act civilly or the thread will be closed and other members may join them.

 

[waldoputty]

There was talk at least from Jerry that Smith might be able to play at the end of this past season and that didn't happen. Here we are in Feb and he's still doing drills and rehabbing. There's been a number of conflicting reports posted on the board over the past few months. There's been encouraging reports and some that are concerning. Looking good in drills and being able to do what's necessary to make plays on the field are two different things. The 49ers drafted Marcus Lattimore who was a very highly rated RB that suffered a serious knee injury in college. He was redshirted his first year and reports were he was looking good in drills but he ended up never playing a down for SF and retired. Smith was a top 5 talent and not one team took a chance in the first round due to his injury which points to the level of doubt that teams had about him ever returning to form. We're talking nerve damage with his situation.

The only highly rated college player that I can think of that fell in the draft due to a serious injury that ever returned to become a solid NFL player was Willis Magahee. Many here spent 2 years getting all worked up over Matt Johnson who never played a down for the Cowboys. If and when Smith sees the field with pads on ready to play football, that's when we're going to find out if there's a chance he can return to form. I'm not going to make the mistake many here are making by looking at his college tape prior to his injury, thinking that's the player we're going to get once he finishes rehabbing. He's still has a long journey ahead of him to come back from that injury and be the player he was. He's already had one full season of development wasted rehabbing an injury. It's not just about getting him on the field but having him return to being an excellent player. That's going to remain a big question until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is.

Certainly that is your right to think and say whatever you want.
However, while talk like "until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is" is technically correct, it is now pushing on a very unlikely scenario.
It is not as if his knee is going to fall apart - I think everyone agrees the question is the nerve, not the knee.

Before the injury, Jaylon was supposed to be a top 5 draft pick, possibly a generational player like Luke Kuechly.
There is a big gap between that and someone who never returns to the field.
Given the reports, videos etc, it is hard to believe that he does not return to the field.
Frankly, it feels like it is desperately clinging to an argument that has been mostly disproved.
That is especially true since he could return to the field wearing the brace if needs be.
As we know, a lot of those videos were with a brace, while this current one may very well not have a brace.
Frankly, it may actually make sense for him to have some type of ankle protection even if the nerve recovers '100%'.

Until he plays in practice, there is no 100% proof for anyone.
While one could argue like you just did, another can argue that his recovery is on track with what the surgeon said. Since the surgeon said it would likely be a good outcome (like injury never happened) within 9-15 months and he is clearly doing all those running and cutting things, he is much more likely to be the generational player than what you just said - never getting on the field.

 

[KJJ]

Buzz kill, you did it again.

Just keeping it real, Smith is facing some long odds of coming back from that injury and returning to the form he had in college. Not saying it can't happen but to have every team in the first round pass him up and 2 teams in the second round shows the kind of gamble we took. To use the 34th overall pick on a player that suffered nerve damage was foolish in my opinion. I could see a team that has a solid defense risking a move like that but not a team that has a number of defensive holes. I just hope we stop designating our #2 picks as gamble picks and start making smart, safe picks with those selections.

 

[KJJ]

Certainly that is your right to think and say whatever you want.
However, while talk like "until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is" is technically correct, it is now pushing on a very unlikely scenario.
It is not as if his knee is going to fall apart - I think everyone agrees the question is the nerve, not the knee.

Before the injury, Jaylon was supposed to be a top 5 draft pick, possibly a generational player like Luke Kuechly.
There is a big gap between that and someone who never returns to the field.
Given the reports, videos etc, it is hard to believe that he does not return to the field.
Frankly, it feels like it is desperately clinging to an argument that has been mostly disproved.
That is especially true since he could return to the field wearing the brace if needs be.
As we know, a lot of those videos were with a brace, while this current one may very well not have a brace.
Frankly, it may actually make sense for him to have some type of ankle protection even if the nerve recovers '100%'.

Until he plays in practice, there is no 100% proof for anyone.
While one could argue like you just did, another can argue that his recovery is on track with what the surgeon said. Since the surgeon said it would likely be a good outcome (like injury never happened) within 9-15 months and he is clearly doing all those running and cutting things, he is much more likely to be the generational player than what you just said - never getting on the field.

Before the injury he was suppose to be a top 5 pick and fell all the way to the 34th pick which shows the degree of concern with his injury. He could have possibly fallen much farther had we not taken him. No way would I take a player that high in the draft that suffered nerve damage and has to wait months hoping a nerve will fire again, with all the defensive needs we have. We're talking about his nerve firing and a foot drop. The longer he continues to have to rehab the more his development as an NFL player is being stunted.

He didn't participate in OTA's, mini camps and training camp his rookie year and the longer he has to rehab the further behind he's going to get. A setback could happen with him at any time and if he's not a full go by training camp this summer, then he'll be looking like a big mistake. Not many teams want to wait a full year to see if a player can return to form but if we're still waiting into his second season just to get him in pads on the field, then things aren't looking good.

 

[JoeKing]

Just keeping it real, Smith is facing some long odds of coming back from that injury and returning to the form he had in college. Not saying it can't happen but to have every team in the first round pass him up and 2 teams in the second round shows the kind of gamble we took. To use the 34th overall pick on a player that suffered nerve damage was foolish in my opinion. I could see a team that has a solid defense risking a move like that but not a team that has a number of defensive holes. I just hope we stop designating our #2 picks as gamble picks and start making smart, safe picks with those selections.

You are dismissing a ton of information that Dallas had in order to justify drafting Smith, most of which came from the guy that performed Smith's surgery, the Cowboy's own Dr. Cooper. Smith will end up becoming a superstar and you will be the one eating crow.

 

[waldoputty]

Before the injury he was suppose to be a top 5 pick and fell all the way to the 34th pick which shows the degree of concern with his injury. He could have possibly fallen much farther had we not taken him. No way would I take a player that high in the draft that suffered nerve damage and has to wait hoping a nerve will fire again. We're talking about his nerve firing and a foot drop. The longer he continues to have to rehab the more his development as an NFL player is being stunted. He didn't participate in OTA's, mini camps and training camp his rookie year and the longer he has to rehab the further behind he's going to get. A setback could happen with him at any time and if he's not a full go by training camp this summer, then he'll be looking like a big mistake.

You seem to be arguing more about whether the high 2nd pick than whether Jaylon is going to play.
May be you are worried that if Jaylon pans out, Jerry will be vindicated and take ever more chances.
Just may be the FO made the right decision that there was a high likelihood that Jaylon would recover based on the surgeon's information (who happened to be the team doctor...)
That could well happen...
The draft choice is a completely different issue that merits separate discussion.
However, it does not support your argument to harp on "he is never going to show up on the field again" with the current state of his recovery.

A setback - what kind of setback?
The nerve is not going to go in reverse and suddenly stop working altogether.
His knee is probably as strong if not stronger than before.
Unless you are suggesting he is going to develop neuroma (cancer of nerve - god forbid) or something like that.
They may well have him play with ankle protection given the prior nerve damage (higher chance for accident with the ankle.
You can be well assure that the doctors are probably doing what they can to protect their investment.

There is always the possibility that the nerve may not get much better, but this video is the first clear videographic evidence that he can move his foot up and down.
Not only is there proof that the foot no longer totally paralyzed, the left and right are well matched in a strenuous drill that required repeated and fast-paced jumping of multiple close-spaced barriers - so there is clearly a substantial amount of recovery.

Any objective person will realize that Jaylon can probably play with a brace RIGHT NOW.
And that is basically what Jaylon himself said - that he could have played in the playoffs

 

[KJJ]

You are dismissing a ton of information that Dallas had in order to justify drafting Smith, most of which came from the guy that performed Smith's surgery, the Cowboy's own Dr. Cooper. Smith will end up becoming a superstar and you will be the one eating crow.

Everyone else had the same information on Smith and chose to pass him up. He was heavily researched by every team being a top 5 talent and the Cowboys are relying on whatever information they got. They relied on their own research of Gregory and apparently got some bad information. There's been a lot information about Smith and some of it has been conflicting. The only one who ends up eating crow is you because you make outrageous predictions.

You've made some of the worst calls imaginable because you just throw things at the wall hoping something will stick. I won't be eating any crow because you won't find a single post from me on this board predicting Smith won't pan out. I have no idea whether he'll return to form or not. I'm in a wait and see mode just like everyone else but have come to no conclusions on Jaylon Smith.

 

[KJJ]

You seem to be arguing more about whether the high 2nd pick than whether Jaylon is going to play.
May be you are worried that if Jaylon pans out, Jerry will be vindicated and take ever more chances.
Just may be the FO made the right decision that there was a high likelihood that Jaylon would recover based on the surgeon's information (who happened to be the team doctor...)
That could well happen...
The draft choice is a completely different issue that merits separate discussion.
However, it does not support your argument to harp on "he is never going to show up on the field again" with the current state of his recovery.

A setback - what kind of setback?
The nerve is not going to go in reverse and suddenly stop working altogether.
His knee is probably as strong if not stronger than before.
Unless you are suggesting he is going to develop neuroma (cancer of nerve - god forbid) or something like that.
They may well have him play with ankle protection given the prior nerve damage (higher chance for accident with the ankle.
You can be well assure that the doctors are probably doing what they can to protect their investment.

There is always the possibility that the nerve may not get much better, but this video is the first clear videographic evidence that he can move his foot up and down.
Not only is there proof that the foot no longer totally paralyzed, the left and right are well matched in a strenuous drill that required repeated and fast-paced jumping of multiple close-spaced barriers - so there is clearly a substantial amount of recovery.

Any objective person will realize that Jaylon can probably play with a brace RIGHT NOW.
And that is basically what Jaylon himself said - that he could have played in the playoffs

Are you a medical expert and have you examined Smith? I'm sure you're not you're just going off everything you're reading. There's no guarantees he'll return to form which is why he fell into the second round. You're saying Smith could "probably" play with a brace right now but you don't know that. Playing and playing effectively are two different things. My argument is no one knows for sure if Smith will return to the form he displayed in college, not you or any medical expert. Don't tell me what he can probably do now because you're no closer to the situation than anyone else here.

 

[waldoputty]

Are you a medical expert and have you examined Smith? I'm sure you're not you're just going off everything you're reading. There's no guarantees he'll return to form which is why he fell into the second round. You're saying Smith could "probably" play with a brace right now but you don't know that. Playing and playing effectively are to different things. My argument is no one knows for sure if Smith will return to the form he displayed in college, not you or any medical expert.

I am not a medical expert myself. However, two members of my family conducted many years of nerve regeneration research and they gave me a lot of input in the last year. They actually said to me that even if Jaylon can come back in 2016, they would have recommended against it due to injury risk.

Jaylon fell to the 2nd round for good reason. There was risk and uncertainty. Anytime there is substantial uncertainty like this, people have trouble coping and acting rationally. Furthermore, which GM could afford making a 'mistake' if Jaylon did not pan out? Only Jerry Jones and the Patriots. In simple economic terms, when demand goes way down, price goes way down. And this was just the type of gamechanging gamble that a wildcat like Jerry would jump on...

No one can say if Jaylon would return to the player he was - absolutely true.

Actually Jaylon and FO have both said he can play right now. Given the videos we see, I suspect most would agree that he can play with the brace. Again, I mean play right reasonably now, not play at a probowl level or even higher.

Given the current level of information, I would say that Jaylon is much more likely to have a complete recovery than your comment of never returning to the playing field...

The comment about a setback is not medically based. I already addressed in the last post. He may not get any better, but highly unlikely his 'functional recovery' does a 180 and gets worse.

Finally, Jaylon has not been doing nothing this year, he has learned the playbook and his assignments...
He appears to be in amazing shape and probably gained muscle/strength since his college years.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

There are disadvantages to a team being run by an owner/GM. We've seen those, though there is evidence of mitigation. But there are advantages, as well.

Only a subset of teams would have taken Smith knowing he was highly unlikely to play his rookie season. That would have been true even if there appeared to be a strong chance of great future success. Many GMs are not guaranteed to survive beyond a single season. They are heavily invested in taking players who offer immediate help.

Jones is not going to be shown the door. That has its downside. He can afford to wait for a player like Smith to make a contrubution. Let us hope we are going to get a payoff from the upside of the equation.

I have my doubts that any second round defensive player would have been the difference in 13-3 and out versus a Super Bowl. Obviously that is unknowable.

Maybe this is a calculated risk that pays a big dividend. We shall see. In the meantime, I appreciate the updates and insight regarding Smith's rehab. I don't expect anyone to prove each point. The fact the effort is being made to inform and even speculate is plenty enough for me.

 

[waldoputty]

There are disadvantages to a team being run by an owner/GM. We've seen those, though there is evidence of mitigation. But there are advantages, as well.

Only a subset of teams would have taken Smith knowing he was highly unlikely to play his rookie season. That would have been true even if there appeared to be a strong chance of great future success. Many GMs are not guaranteed to survive beyond a single season. They are heavily invested in taking players who offer immediate help.

Jones is not going to be shown the door. That has its downside. He can afford to wait for a player like Smith to make a contrubution. Let us hope we are going to get a payoff from the upside of the equation.

I have my doubts that any second round defensive player would have been the difference in 13-3 and out versus a Super Bowl. Obviously that is unknowable.

Maybe this is a calculated risk that pays a big dividend. We shall see. In the meantime, I appreciate the updates and insight regarding Smith's rehab. I don't expect anyone to prove each point. The fact the effort is being made to inform and even speculate is plenty enough for me.

Yep, it appears Stephen, Garrett and the McClay have reined in Jerry in a bit.
Jerry at his worst would be the worst GM in the league.
At his best when given the right info and stopped from his worst impulses, could be one of the best.
He is the best deal closer in the league - see La'El signing.
He can take risks that other dare not - lets hope Jaylon is the big payoff.

 

[KJJ]

I am not a medical expert myself. However, two members of my family conducted many years of nerve regeneration research and they gave me a lot of input in the last year. They actually said to me that even if Jaylon can come back in 2016, they would have recommended against it due to injury risk.

Jaylon fell to the 2nd round for good reason. There was risk and uncertainty. Anytime there is substantial uncertainty like this, people have trouble coping and acting rationally. Furthermore, which GM could afford making a 'mistake' if Jaylon did not pan out? Only Jerry Jones and the Patriots. In simple economic terms, when demand goes way down, price goes way down. And this was just the type of gamechanging gamble that a wildcat like Jerry would jump on...

No one can say if Jaylon would return to the player he was - absolutely true.

Actually Jaylon and FO have both said he can play right now. Given the videos we see, I suspect most would agree that he can play with the brace. Again, I mean play right reasonably now, not play at a probowl level or even higher.

Given the current level of information, I would say that Jaylon is much more likely to have a complete recovery than your comment of never returning to the playing field...

The comment about a setback is not medically based. I already addressed in the last post. He may not get any better, but highly unlikely his 'functional recovery' does a 180 and gets worse.

Finally, Jaylon has not been doing nothing this year, he has learned the playbook and his assignments...
He appears to be in amazing shape and probably gained muscle/strength since his college years.

If you want to continue wasting your time speculating on what you think will happen go ahead. By the way where did I say Smith will never return to the playing field? I never said that! Try reading my posts instead of twisting my comments.

 

[waldoputty]

If you want to continue wasting your time speculating on what you think will happen go ahead. By the way where did I say Smith will never return to the playing field? I never said that! Try reading my posts instead of twisting my comments.

"That's going to remain a big question until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is."

 

[KJJ]

"That's going to remain a big question until he's cleared to practice, if he ever is."

Dude, that's not saying he never will be cleared to practice. "Until" and "if" isn't never, try getting that straight.

 

[Rockdoc]

wow
so are there some here who are pessimistic or routing against JS?
EVERY pick is a risk. with draft we had, the Smith pick is an EXCELLENT risk!! (now)
Seems like there is a miss understanding. The nerve was NOT torn. thats a whole different issue
the nerve recovering is actually expected (less "risk").
as with most injuries, lets just let him recover.
he will be fine

 

[waldoputty]

Dude, that's not saying he never will be cleared to practice. "Until" and "if" isn't never, try getting that straight.

'if' CAN mean 'never'.
you just like to raise the worst possible scenario to support your point of taking risks with 2nd round picks.